Guild Bound Items! Solution to "Im undergeared!" and "another crap to DE drop" issue.

[Henline]

I guess people would start buying raid items more often, seeing as you don't even need to bring people to your raids in order to sell them gear. I think bigger raiding guilds with a lot of different raid groups would become a lot more common if this was implemented in the game.

This. That system would be to easily abused in numerous ways. It sucks for bad RNG drops that get DE'd (we DE 2-3 items a night from DS in my 10, most of it is still going to offspecs), but that's part of the system. It's your own fault if you tolerate excuses from people not performing up to par for their gear level, good players will look into it instead of making excuses for performing poorly.

[Maximus4004]

This is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard. This game is about earning achievements and gear, being able to share gear would literally destroy this game. The amount of misuse this system would cause by guilds exploting or briefing players over would be endless

Care to back up your claims? WoW is about having fun in multitudes of ways some earning gear, some killing bosses, some killing other players your perception of the game and others are two completely different sides of the coin. I believe it should be a give item 1x and that item is than SB to the player regardless of what happens. If they bail its as easy as paging their next GM and saying "be careful he took some guild loot and bailed on us be wary of him". What amount of misuse? We have no ele shaman and ele shaman wrists drop other raid has ele shaman they don't drop. Guild needs a resto shaman well heres some resto gear we've been storing and had no use for. Don't post unless your going to back up what your trying to defend.

[The One Percent]

I would rather gear be account bound, so people can send it to alts.

[Maximus4004]

This. That system would be to easily abused in numerous ways. It sucks for bad RNG drops that get DE'd (we DE 2-3 items a night from DS in my 10, most of it is still going to offspecs), but that's part of the system. It's your own fault if you tolerate excuses from people not performing up to par for their gear level, good players will look into it instead of making excuses for performing poorly.

Like I said previously the amount of guilds that would use this feature correctly would probably be alot more than the amount of guilds that "Sell" gear to their players. You think Paragon/Blood Legion would sell gear they couldn't make any use of to their own guild members? That's the stupidest claim yet. And so 1 guild does it what about the other 5 that use its functionality correctly should they be punished for one bad seed?

[Sadinar]

Care to back up your claims? WoW is about having fun in multitudes of ways some earning gear, some killing bosses, some killing other players your perception of the game and others are two completely different sides of the coin. I believe it should be a give item 1x and that item is than SB to the player regardless of what happens. If they bail its as easy as paging their next GM and saying "be careful he took some guild loot and bailed on us be wary of him". What amount of misuse? We have no ele shaman and ele shaman wrists drop other raid has ele shaman they don't drop. Guild needs a resto shaman well heres some resto gear we've been storing and had no use for. Don't post unless your going to back up what your trying to defend.

Because the OP made it clear that the items would not be SB, but go back to the guild bank, and blindly assumed that it would not be an issue; which is what the post you quoted is referring to. You're suggesting something different and then attacking a guy for disagreeing with the OP...two different things there.

[Aoyi]

This can't be implemented in game for the effect it would have on the top guilds. First week has to be a normal mode clear in current progression. That means if a guild plans out their roster for the following week. Then they do countless runs turning everything into a guild bound item. Once they've farmed up all BiS normal mode pieces, they hand them to those players to start the heroic race.

Now I know you're saying guilds already do this. Not so. What is currently done (forgetting the LFR exploit) is priority players get their loot reserved in their own personalized run. If they are incredibly lucky and everything they need drops, great. If they don't have the luck, they miss out on those upgrades since their one run for the week is done on that toon (barring LFR for a second chance at lower ilvl loot).

[Maximus4004]

Because the OP made it clear that the items would not be SB, but go back to the guild bank, and blindly assumed that it would not be an issue; which is what the post you quoted is referring to. You're suggesting something different and then attacking a guy for disagreeing with the OP...two different things there.

Than make suggestions to fine tune the idea, opposed to saying "No that won't work its stupid and will be taken advantage of more than useful" like the other handful of posts here. It's like every chance someone gets to bash another player for not being as skilled as they are or as geared as they are they ride it. Most people just think OH MAH GAWD THEY DONT HAVE TO EARN IT THEYD GET FREE EPIX. Even though their guild mates were strong enough/skilled enough to earn said gear and have the trust with their fellow guild mates to give it to someone who could actually use the item.

[Viled]

Care to back up your claims? WoW is about having fun in multitudes of ways some earning gear, some killing bosses, some killing other players your perception of the game and others are two completely different sides of the coin. I believe it should be a give item 1x and that item is than SB to the player regardless of what happens. If they bail its as easy as paging their next GM and saying "be careful he took some guild loot and bailed on us be wary of him". What amount of misuse? We have no ele shaman and ele shaman wrists drop other raid has ele shaman they don't drop. Guild needs a resto shaman well heres some resto gear we've been storing and had no use for. Don't post unless your going to back up what your trying to defend.

Who said i wasnt going to back up my claims?

Lets take a BRIEF idea as to how this can be exploited. Guild Master holds all control over people and their gear, if anyone gets gear they now have to follow any rule or pass on any gear because if not the GM can kick them and the game will remove any gear they have that is "guild bound".

Gear is easier to get today then it has EVER been, you can hit level 85 and be raid ready in 2-3 hours. why in the world would we need to make it EVEN easier?

[Maximus4004]

This can't be implemented in game for the effect it would have on the top guilds. First week has to be a normal mode clear in current progression. That means if a guild plans out their roster for the following week. Then they do countless runs turning everything into a guild bound item. Once they've farmed up all BiS normal mode pieces, they hand them to those players to start the heroic race.

Now I know you're saying guilds already do this. Not so. What is currently done (forgetting the LFR exploit) is priority players get their loot reserved in their own personalized run. If they are incredibly lucky and everything they need drops, great. If they don't have the luck, they miss out on those upgrades since their one run for the week is done on that toon (barring LFR for a second chance at lower ilvl loot).

It would just add another degree of strategy to the table. The top guilds would adjust their strategies accordingly like they do with all changes. For example LFR new strategies were developed some good....some bad

---------- Post added 2012-01-31 at 06:28 PM ----------

Who said i wasnt going to back up my claims?

Lets take a BRIEF idea as to how this can be exploited. Guild Master holds all control over people and their gear, if anyone gets gear they now have to follow any rule or pass on any gear because if not the GM can kick them and the game will remove any gear they have that is "guild bound".

Gear is easier to get today then it has EVER been, you can hit level 85 and be raid ready in 2-3 hours. why in the world would we need to make it EVEN easier?

Why would we not are you so insecure around your lower members in your guild that you have to flash your titles/gear to them to earn their respect? They are your TEAMMATES at the end of the day. And if your guild master holds all the power make sure you join a guild with a gm that has the qualities of a good gm.

Respectable
Smart
Non Egotistical
Non Tyrant
etc.

It would be all in the guilds hands. If you felt like your GM was a dick you could just leave like you can now. It's really that simple.

And its not about making players raid ready its about putting to use the players that have already prepared themselves for the content and were able to conquer it, they can't use said item so they give it to one of their TEAMMATES see what I did there?

[Cernunnos]

I would rather gear be account bound, so people can send it to alts.

Yeap. I'd kill for certain BOP things to be BOA. (Looking at you Vial of the Sands Recipe!)



I don't see an issue with trading my warrior's old bracers to my DK when I get an upgrade. Would make gearing up alts of similar armor class/type easier for sure. And drops for classes not present in raid wouldn't go to waste, as you could just give it to your alt.


Could fix the issue with alts getting mounts, but mains not getting them.

[Jimmybob117]

I believe this idea was acctualy suggested with the re-vamp of the guild system in cata. Something to do with Guild heirlooms I think, and that the guild would buy them and dish them out, but if you left you lost the item and it went back to the guild. Ya know, basic ideas that would make sense so people didn't steal things.

But yeah, a similar idea but it didn't go through. I personally think being able to share gear, because you are there to make your character stronger. If the items ( Like epics from raids, good stuff) could just be handed out, essentialy a fresh 85 would need no gearing. The guild could have a full set of say, resto shaman gear, and then just hand it out to them and boost them up to a suitable gear level to raid. Yeah, don't think it should happen.

[Maximus4004]

I believe this idea was acctualy suggested with the re-vamp of the guild system in cata. Something to do with Guild heirlooms I think, and that the guild would buy them and dish them out, but if you left you lost the item and it went back to the guild. Ya know, basic ideas that would make sense so people didn't steal things.

But yeah, a similar idea but it didn't go through. I personally think being able to share gear, because you are there to make your character stronger. If the items ( Like epics from raids, good stuff) could just be handed out, essentialy a fresh 85 would need no gearing. The guild could have a full set of say, resto shaman gear, and then just hand it out to them and boost them up to a suitable gear level to raid. Yeah, don't think it should happen.

What if you required to access the "transfer loot" option you had to be exalted with the guild? That would change the "recruit resto shammie and give him full raid gear"?

[Darkfriend]

Too much possibility for abuse. Running 5 alt raid teams to gear up mains for progression, selling gear to people who don't raid, etc.

[Rvlzr]

So basically you're stuck in your guild forever or you lose all your gear? The guild level/rep system already makes people feel stuck in bad guilds, this would only make it much worse, for no benefit really.

If it's a farm boss, sub in some alts so there's someone who can use all the drops. For progression, if it's the first time you're killing the boss, someone's main/offspec is very likely to be able to use the drops, if not, who cares, it's just one boss, bring a more diverse comp if it bothers you so much.

[Maximus4004]

Too much possibility for abuse. Running 5 alt raid teams to gear up mains for progression, selling gear to people who don't raid, etc.

The running 5 alt teams for gear for mains would be an interesting strategy by top end guilds the amount of guilds that would use this loophole would be probably around 1% of the ENTIRE player base. Selling gear to people who don't raid already happens with BoE's that drop, and WoW fully supports that capability already so it's not something they are concerned about. This gear would have to stay on the toon(since it would become soulbound) unlike BoE's which are often stolen by certain members and sold on the AH for profit.

---------- Post added 2012-01-31 at 06:50 PM ----------

So basically you're stuck in your guild forever or you lose all your gear? The guild level/rep system already makes people feel stuck in bad guilds, this would only make it much worse, for no benefit really.

If it's a farm boss, sub in some alts so there's someone who can use all the drops. For progression, if it's the first time you're killing the boss, someone's main/offspec is very likely to be able to use the drops, if not, who cares, it's just one boss, bring a more diverse comp if it bothers you so much.

I agree that losing the gear upon guild exit woudl suck, however if the items became soul bound upon transfer the loot would stick with the character even if they chose to leave the guild(that they worked to earn exalted in to get said gear, just my idea) Sometimes even alts get penalized in farm runs this would help eliminate that factor. And I've seen a boss drop 2 worthless items on a first kill by the raid group...it happens.

[Deleted]

Who said i wasnt going to back up my claims?

Lets take a BRIEF idea as to how this can be exploited. Guild Master holds all control over people and their gear, if anyone gets gear they now have to follow any rule or pass on any gear because if not the GM can kick them and the game will remove any gear they have that is "guild bound".

Gear is easier to get today then it has EVER been, you can hit level 85 and be raid ready in 2-3 hours. why in the world would we need to make it EVEN easier?

And do you think that guild masters which would do that would survive? There is still a thing called server reputation. If people will tell crap on you then no ammount of epixs will make them join you. Only pool of players left for one such GM at that point is his own kind which doesnt give a damn just like him. After some time the very same GM will spit on his beard and wham his head on the desk asking himself why was he that stupid.

But yeah, a similar idea but it didn't go through. I personally think being able to share gear, because you are there to make your character stronger. If the items ( Like epics from raids, good stuff) could just be handed out, essentialy a fresh 85 would need no gearing. The guild could have a full set of say, resto shaman gear, and then just hand it out to them and boost them up to a suitable gear level to raid. Yeah, don't think it should happen.

That would be all fine and dandy if that new resto shaman could fully utilize his given gear. If he wouldn't peform as good as guild expects him to then he would lose the gear as soon as he got it. He would have no right to whine as he has no right to be buthurt over losing something that was never his to begin with.

So basically you're stuck in your guild forever or you lose all your gear? The guild level/rep system already makes people feel stuck in bad guilds, this would only make it much worse, for no benefit really.

If it's a farm boss, sub in some alts so there's someone who can use all the drops. For progression, if it's the first time you're killing the boss, someone's main/offspec is very likely to be able to use the drops, if not, who cares, it's just one boss, bring a more diverse comp if it bothers you so much.

Well if you join guilds only for gear then your doing something wrong. Also its not like only guilds would have access to gear. They would have access to best and better gear without a doubt, but there would be nothing that would stand in your way to gear yourself up from HC5mans and Raid Finder. I assure you that gear from those 2 places is perfectly viable for all your daily needs like grinding and daily quests.

What's wrong with items going to off-spec or DE?

Risk of guild hopper and guild poaching. Those two things really kill guilds.

Several people in my raids use OS gear all the time, though that's usually when somebody essential is missing or we have to cut back on or increase the number of tanks/healers. I know that if I end up rerolling Monk next expac, and I probably will, that while I plan to use DPS for my main spec, I'll work to build up a healer and tank OS in case the raids could benefit from me switching.

Good for you. But now what about a guild who few core raiders quit midway during important progression and take those valuable pieces of gear down with them. That can really kill any remaning morale and even if a guild manages to go throught it they still have to farm this gear back agian. You might say that they shouldn't trust gear to such people but with that kind of mindset they cant trust gear to anyone as anyone anytime can quit or change guild to another. That's a very devastating blow that can push a guild back in weeks or even months. This kind of thing shouldn't be something that decides whether a guild succeds or not.

Perhaps you never faced such a problem but I assure you that this happened in Vanilla/TBC/Wotlk, especially guild poaching where lower guilds were essentially locked in their tier and the moment they geared up someone for progression that person left to a better one leaving them in place. That created a very hostile guild enviourment and this still happens today.

That's not okay.

I hate this idea. I hate how I'd have to be beholden to a guild then with loot. Basically, if the GM ever decided to be less than friendly, not only can he kick someone from a guild, but he can also basically REMOVE THEIR GEAR upon being kicked. Think about it. GMS would hold ALL the power, and raiders none. Even if you're in a guild with people you hate, or if you suddenly find your work schedule changing and can't raid, well guess what, you just got kicked down to dungeon blues since your gear is guild-owned.

You base this off the assumption that the concept of a guild means something special, when its the concept of a RAID that means something. Plenty of raid guilds have members from multiple guilds participating, for a variety of reasons, and it works out well. But you would limit all these groups because you have gotten burned by people leaving with loot before; what you're suggesting is too extreme a measure. You ignore that it would too easily be abused; a GM and officers can easily use this system to gear out their alts, but you brush this concern aside by saying "naaah won't happen", which is foolish and simplistic.

Really, blizzard would never accept this idea because of all these flaws, mmo-champ sees a thread like this pop every month or so where someone has the brilliant idea to transfer all loot rights to the GM and yet blizzard has never added it, because it is flawed and a GM is no more trustworthy than anyone else.

Oh I do realise that this would happen and trust me. Those kinds of guild would not survive long. Certanly you wouldnt want to be in such a guild right? No one would want to right? Dont pretend that raiders have no power over such guilds. I tell you one thing. Guilds arent made of one person. The GM who is not aware of that is in for a nasty suprise which will give the rest of us a helluva laugh.

Allowing people to obtain gear from content without having to set foot in it.
No, that is already an issue with the current currency systems without adding to it.
If you want the gear, then participate in the content.

Just because they can get it easily doesnt mean they can keep it. Guilds will have no use of players who join the guild only to parade in their spare gear. They will lose it if they dont meet the guild's demands.

[Penguirrel]

I see this as a bad implementation of having guild bound items. Don't have them as raid drops.

If a guild wanted to(probably many would) they could make every piece of gear that drops "guild bound" and then distributes it to the person. This way all your gear is guild bound and so you can never leave your guild unless you feel like being naked. This makes it less an incentive to stay and more a bitch-slap for deciding to leave. Shit happens; people change; priorities change; people move on.

It's a good idea but the implementation isn't right in your current method.

[Swaggah]

No, I think it's a bad idea

I think gear should be earned by hard work on THAT specific character and just some luck
And this is coming from a warrior with almost 10 ilvls less then the other in guild

[ganush]

I don't know about this. It would create a lot of loot available to people not partaking in the content. Imagine a guild running content on alts and funneling all the gear to their mains for a second crack at loot that week. That's a huge loophole.

I don't think on the whole it is a great idea, however on a limited scale it might work. I know we rotate 7 dps thru 5 dps spots due to attendance issues, and it is frustrating when our hunter has been sat both weeks the bow dropped of Madness. I know RNG is RNG, but it really hurts our group and our morale. I'd be for a system where you could designate 2 alternates (for 10 man) who would get locked to the kills, but also be eligible for loot each week. How guilds chose to designate the alternates would be up to them, but I think it would at least decrease the number of wasted drops, and make managing a successful raid group easier.

[Peyj]

Officers gearing alts and friends.

Yes, this, a hundred times over. The room for exploitation/favouritism/etc if this ever got implemented would be astounding.

- "Eh, we don't like you, we're going to store that for Flirty McFlirt when she logs on later."
- "Well you didn't pull the same DPS as last week, so we're going to give that to someone else."

But I think the worst part about this.

Say you're a Reserve Raider, and someone is unable to attend, so you step up and fill in for them. You're the same class/armor proficiency/whatever. That one item you really want/need drops, and you think, "Woohoo!"

Nope.

Guild decides to store it away for the other guy, who wasn't even there. Totally fair..

I really dislike everything about this idea.