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  1. #1
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    Virginia: Ultrasound required before abortion

    Source: http://hamptonroads.com/2012/01/irke...ctal-exams-men
    The Virginia Senate, for years a firewall against efforts to restrict abortion, today is poised to pass a bill to require that pregnant women undergo an ultrasound and get a chance to see the image before having an abortion.

    It's one of several anti-abortion bills now moving through the General Assembly. Others would give legal rights to unborn children, prohibit abortions after 20 weeks unless a woman's life or physical well-being is at risk, and further limit public funding for some abortions.
    What do you think about it?

  2. #2
    inciting a maternal reaction, I don't think it should be required of young girls and people who acually need the abortion J pregancy in the fallopian tube, rape) but I'm not really seing the issue.

  3. #3
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    Absolutely pathetic.

    So why are all these guys getting blown up in Iraq and Afghanistan for if it's not to preserve freedoms and freedom of choice etc?

  4. #4
    w/e, if u rly want an abortion it doesn't seem like a big deal...if they think it'll lower abortion rates I highly doubt that...just seems kinda pointless

  5. #5
    Someone made a mistake, lets rub salt in that wound to maximise scarring...

    I would imagive VERY few women make the decision to have an abortion lightly.

  6. #6
    Deleted
    >Appealing to the emotions of women who may already feel like shit for having an abortion.
    Seriously, why?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    >Appealing to the emotions of women who may already feel like shit for having an abortion.
    Seriously, why?
    I think the argument is that if u feel like shit about something your doing, maybe your not doing the right thing

  8. #8
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Bormes View Post
    I think the argument is that if u feel like shit about something your doing, maybe your not doing the right thing

    Important decisions like this should be kept to reason, not emotion. ._.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    Important decisions like this should be kept to reason, not emotion. ._.
    Reason can be just as flawed as emotion

  10. #10
    1. Cost - this is an additional fee to these women. Often it will be hard enough to pay for the abortion, let alone take care of the ultrasound fee on top of that.

    2. It's disrespectful of choice. We don't do similar things for people's vices; why do it for something that is already a highly emotionally charged moment, solely for the purpose of promoting a religious agenda?

    3. If you don't believe it's a religious agenda, then show me the science that the religious agenda uses that has been verified independently to the point that the theory is accepted widely to prove this is necessary for a non-morality-based rationale for the additional procedure.

    In short, this comes directly from those who want to say "Keep the government out of my business, except when it involves abortion, gay marriage, and similar topics."

  11. #11
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Bormes View Post
    Reason can be just as flawed as emotion
    Usually, less so.

    Quote Originally Posted by dusketernal View Post
    1. Cost - this is an additional fee to these women. Often it will be hard enough to pay for the abortion, let alone take care of the ultrasound fee on top of that.
    Also, I would like to express that this post carries a high value of truth in my eyes and would like to express such in a way that is arbitrarily less bannable than just saying 'this.'

  12. #12
    Who gets to pay for the ultrasound?

    Also in a perfect world, men would be allowed to financially sever themselves from the child too (giving the woman ample notice before the child's birth) if they did not want a child.

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Rizendragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    Important decisions like this should be kept to reason, not emotion. ._.
    And in my opinion Adoption is a choice of reason and Abortion is a choice of emotion. There are other options to consider, and abortion should be the very last of those options explored. Unfortunately in our society ppl turn to the quickest most convenient option readily available without truly weighing all the logical options.

  14. #14
    If the state wants to make this kind of requirement, they'll need to provide funding for the doctor of the woman's choice to provide this service. The problem is that the intent of the bill is to shame women and not to ensure their health and safety. I believe abortion is a problem, but demonizing women stuck in that situation is a pretty shitty solution.

    Be careful with this thread guys; express your opinion, but don't argue with others, or we'll be looking at a lock soon.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    Usually, less so.
    I'd have to disagree. It was cold hard logic that led Hitler on his conquest. Reason that convinces suicide bombers to commit their acts. Flawed reasoning imo is much more dangerous than trusting ones emotions. I don't think our emotions are something to fear or push aside, they allow us insight into things we are probably actively trying not to think about. One must learn to control their emotions, not ignore them.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Bormes View Post
    I'd have to disagree. It was cold hard logic that led Hitler on his conquest. Reason that convinces suicide bombers to commit their acts. Flawed reasoning imo is much more dangerous than trusting ones emotions. I don't think our emotions are something to fear or push aside, they allow us insight into things we are probably actively trying not to think about. One must learn to control their emotions, not ignore them.
    Uhhh... suicide bombers and Hitler use(d) anything except reason.

    Fervent religious or nationalistic beliefs are just as illogical as emotion.

    Reason is where you take fact A with situation B and come up with logical solution C.

    Religious zealotry and extreme nationalism paint subjective things as facts and use conclusions stemming from those "facts" to determine "reasonable" solutions.

  17. #17
    The Lightbringer Rizendragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dusketernal View Post
    2. It's disrespectful of choice. We don't do similar things for people's vices; why do it for something that is already a highly emotionally charged moment, solely for the purpose of promoting a religious agenda?
    Have you turned the TV on lately? The non-smoking ads are the most graphic of them all. Taking a human blood vessle that looks like a rubber tube and squeezing the shit out of it? How about the ones where the guy is hacking like mad slowly dying of emphysema?

    People's "vices" aren't always accepted in this country. Do I think all illegal drugs should be legalized and taxed the hell out of? Definitely. It's a person's choice to destroy themselves. We're talking about something someone is choosing that effects another life not only their own here. That is why this is such a hot button issue. I don't think that abortion should be illegal because then you'll have girls at home with coat hangers trying to do this on their own. The same happens if you over regulate something. I personally think that asking someone to get an ultrasound to actually sit there and realize just what they're doing isn't going too far. Seeing another life growing the way you did in it's mother's womb will hit home the decision they're about to make.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Chonogo View Post
    Yet whatever option the woman chooses, emotion(abortion) or reason(adoption), it's none of your or my business.

    Which is the entire point.
    So if I want to kill someone, it's no1's business? Sorry that's not how living in a society works. If you want to live in the wilderness in a remote location, than 100% of what u do can be your own business, but as long as you live in a society you have to abide by its rules, some of which mean making certain parts of your "business" the attention of others. This is minimized as best as possible, but the idea behind a society and government, is some freedoms need to be limited. Like the freedom to fight, kill, steal, etc.

    Now as for abortion, it's still not clear where that falls, but that argument is pretty moot. Personally, I was adopted, and if my parents had aborted me, I wouldn't be here typing. I love my parents, the ones I was given to, I don't even know my birth parents; But I am eternally grateful they didn't cease my existence before I got a chance to see this world and become a part of it. I'm graduating in Agricultural and Biological Engineering from Purdue University and I intend on doing great things for this world. I think if you've made the decisions that led to a baby existing in your belly, it's your obligation to make sure that fetus gets to see this world and have the chance to do great things for it, like I was. If you can't keep it, trust me, there's plenty of amazing people out there who are more than willing to help.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commissarr View Post
    Absolutely pathetic.

    So why are all these guys getting blown up in Iraq and Afghanistan for if it's not to preserve freedoms and freedom of choice etc?
    i remember when the iraq war first started it was codenamed 'Operation: Iraqi Liberation'... It was quickly changed to 'freedom' when the sign became instantly obvious (O.I.L.)...

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    Important decisions like this should be kept to reason, not emotion. ._.
    Emotion comes in no matter what. The idea, presumably, would be that if you got the brunt of it before the procedure, you'd be better off than getting it after when it could potentially turn into regret. You can't exactly change your mind once the procedure has been done, but you can before.

    That said, this is something that would probably have to be at taxpayer expense, and it's not really the government's job to save people from their own regrets. I'm generally pro-life personally, but I can't see the justification for this bill. It feels a little bit TOO roundabout.

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