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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by cadewinegar View Post
    Could someone please tell me why Americans want to enable people to make choices and NOT live with the consequences?

    Sex is a choice. You can choose not to take part in the REPRODUCTIVE act of our species. If you CHOOSE to do it, you must live with the consequences.

    Why in the world would you support abortion? Help someone understand the LOGIC.

    (Excluding rape, I am talking about consensual sex obviously)
    If we have a way to not have consequences, why should we have the consequences?
    If there was an instant cure for lung cancer, would you tell smokers with lung cancer "nope, you smoked, you have to live with the consequences and not take this instant cure!"
    Think about it.

  2. #102
    So women should only have sex if they are willing to have a baby?

    Sorry guys, have fun not getting any sex...

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Chonogo View Post
    This isn't about individual people condoning abortion. That's a personal issue. This is about the government determining your personal opinion for you. And it's wrong.
    How, the only thing the government can be accused of here is providing you with information, visual information. And you need information to make the correct decision.

    Besides an Opinion is "a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty."

  4. #104
    Not really surprised it is a southern christian state either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Except there was no Russian Invasion into Crimea.
    Not like Putin acknowledged it on national tv..

  5. #105
    Mechagnome Irishman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purlina View Post
    So women should only have sex if they are willing to have a baby?

    Sorry guys, have fun not getting any sex...
    For many who take this stance, I imagine it is already the case and not by their choice, if you'll pardon the pun.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    If we have a way to not have consequences, why should we have the consequences?
    If there was an instant cure for lung cancer, would you tell smokers with lung cancer "nope, you smoked, you have to live with the consequences and not take this instant cure!"
    Think about it.
    Smokers would have to pay for the treatment which is all this law is doing really. Making people pay financially for their decision.

    For clarity: In your analogy "You shouldn't have to pay for the cure because its the tobacco company's fault you got sick"
    Last edited by phenom568; 2012-01-31 at 05:28 PM.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by phenom568 View Post
    How, the only thing the government can be accused of here is providing you with information, visual information. And you need information to make the correct decision.

    Besides an Opinion is "a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty."
    Information needed to make the correct decision...? It's not like your showing them anything they don't know about.

  8. #108

    Somehow I think this may contribute to the thread in some way, about abortion and life. Just give it a watch. Mind that it's for adults, don't watch if you aren't allowed to listen to cursing... but assuming you play WoW I don't see a big of a deal of posting it here I guess.


    Aeryana: "Gentlemen, we have a highlander."

  9. #109
    Mechagnome Irishman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phenom568 View Post
    Smokers would have to pay for the treatment which is all this law is doing really. Making people pay financially for their decision.
    What about people who started smoking before we had enough science to see the risks behind the habit? What about the people who did not have a choice in whether they partook of the sex/rape that ended up in getting them pregnant?

    It must be interesting to live in a black and white world.

  10. #110
    Could someone please tell me why Americans want to enable people to make choices and NOT live with the consequences?
    You are assuming that pregnancy implies the lifelong responsibility to raise a child, which in this country, it doesn't. And if you're talking about a moral responsibility outside those mandated by the courts, I disagree. Your responsibility is to take care of the pregnancy. Either to end it or see it through as best you can. Honestly, if there's any "personal responsibility" in my mind, it comes at the point that you decide to have the child. At that point the personal responsibility is to raise it; and interestingly enough, many people here are instead advocating abandoning THAT personal responsibility in favor of adoption. While an argument could be made that giving away a baby is the responsible thing to do, that would only be true if all babies got adopted, which is not the case. It also presupposes that all babies will be born to mothers who can and want to take care of them, which is also not the case.

    In the end though, this is a moral question, and we disagree on what is moral when it comes to this topic, and that's not going to change. Luckily we (theoretically) live in a country where I cannot (and should not imo), force you to live by my moral code any more than you can or should force anyone else to live by yours. Morality is a concept unique to the individual, even when it mainly comes from a source external to that person. The conviction that ones morality must apply to all others is what has been used as a tool to fuel some of the worst conflicts in the history of our species.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by phenom568 View Post
    Smokers would have to pay for the treatment which is all this law is doing really. Making people pay financially for their decision.
    Abortions already cost money.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    I really couldn't give 2 shits about women's rights in abortions until men have the right to sever themselves (financially and parentally) to a child before it's born.
    Tell you what buddy boy, you keep it in your pants then women won't get pregnant by you. You absolutely know, we all do, that no form of birth control except abstinence is 100% guaranteed, yet if you take that chance and a baby is born because of it you want to abandon this person because you don't have personal responsibility for your actions. You better hope for your sake and any breeding you might do that abortion is an option or you and your precious money will part ways because of it.

    No man can tell me what I can or cannot do with my body. Period. This 'law' is offensive at best and highly abusive to women who have to make the difficult choice to have an abortion or not.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by phenom568 View Post
    How, the only thing the government can be accused of here is providing you with information, visual information. And you need information to make the correct decision.

    Besides an Opinion is "a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty."
    Hmm what information does it give you that you dont already know? Please explain it.
    You know you are pregnent, you need to get shown you are pregnant?

    This is simply a law lobbied by religious groups, it has NOTHING to do with information.
    Dont know how you can even come to the conclusion.
    Last edited by Bakis; 2012-01-31 at 05:30 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Except there was no Russian Invasion into Crimea.
    Not like Putin acknowledged it on national tv..

  14. #114
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    God, some of these people make me wish I was a woman so I could go around aborting babies all willy-nilly just to piss them off.

    Seriously, it's a woman's (or couple's) choice whether or not they want to have a child. Accidents can happen, and saying you shouldn't have sex if you don't want a kid is like saying you shouldn't drive if you don't want a semi to veer into the oncoming lane and turn you into hamburger. If you don't like abortions, don't have one. If you don't like meat, don't eat it. But don't try and pull out some bullshit A to C reasoning without even attempting to include B in there, and tell everyone they're murderers.

    As for adoption, do you have any idea how hard it is to get a child put into a decent family where they won't get beaten or molested? It's like child rape roulette, and that's in the best case scenario where the kid actually gets adopted out and doesn't stay in a group home until they're 18. Some people don't like the idea of carrying a baby to term, then parting with it, possibly never knowing if it turned out okay. It's hard enough to have an abortion when the thing's still a parasitic organism, let alone willfully handing it over to strangers after spending nine months nurturing it.

  15. #115
    Warchief Szemere's Avatar
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    I think it's completely fine to show people what they are removing before they remove it. If the fetus is still not living, it will still look like nothing, and there will be no "cheating people into thinking they want to keep it".

    If it actually looks human, it probably already lives, and I won't go into it much further, but when you want to kill off something that lives, showing someone how it looks, and giving them a chance to not kill it, is quite okay.

    And now don't go saying stuff about the fact I used the word "kill", if something lives, and afterwards it doesn't, you call that killing. It's the same term when you're talking about a process on your computer.

  16. #116
    The Lightbringer eriseis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phenom568 View Post
    How, the only thing the government can be accused of here is providing you with information, visual information. And you need information to make the correct decision.

    Besides an Opinion is "a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty."
    Except when a pro-life doctor delays your ultrasound and the ultrasound is schedule past the window of time you have to get the abortion.

  17. #117
    Warchief Szemere's Avatar
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    Also, how is showing people how something looks before you abort it, going in against their free will? Explain that, while keeping my previous post in mind. Yeah, there is no solid explanation for that >.<...

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by cadewinegar View Post
    Could someone please tell me why Americans want to enable people to make choices and NOT live with the consequences?

    Sex is a choice. You can choose not to take part in the REPRODUCTIVE act of our species. If you CHOOSE to do it, you must live with the consequences.

    Why in the world would you support abortion? Help someone understand the LOGIC.

    (Excluding rape, I am talking about consensual sex obviously)
    Would you force someone to let a tumor grow in their lungs when they smoke their whole life? It was their choice to smoke, now they live with the consequences right?

    Decision making doesn't stop at conception. We're sentient creatures capable of understanding ourselves and our potential to raise a human, just like we can understand that it's not a human, rather an opportunity to become a human.

  19. #119
    Christ.
    It's not that difficult, people.

    Upgrade your sexual education - and maybe encourage the use of contraceptions instead of the ridiculously utopian ideal of abstinence.
    That will drastically decrease your abortion rates.

    But we all know the abortion RATES aren't what they're out to target with these bills. It's the abortions.
    If you chose rock as a weapon, in order to beat a pair of scissors, don't start whining when you get pwn'd by a piece of paper.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by phenom568 View Post
    Because as someone said in this thread, Personal responsibility is stupid
    I'm sure this was directed at me. Please, kindly point to where I said personal responsibility is stupid. I simply stated that you saying that personal responsibility is no longer used or diminished is a stupid argument. I don't expect you to do so, of course. You'll instead choose to take my comments completely out of context with the situation.

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