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  1. #61
    Pandaren Monk papajohn4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trakbob View Post
    Well, 30$ is 2 months in a P2P game, so it's still cheaper than rolling alts in another game if you think in my weird way of thinking. And the jumping between servers for free, make up for the need of alts on other servers just for playing with with friends scattered around on those other servers. IMO ofcourse.
    Then why it is called B2P???B2P its completely different from "its cheaper" as you said...I said many times that I don't have problem to pay a monthly sub for a game such as gw2 but to sell me half of the game (yes half, cause i can't play all classes but the ~60% of them) and advertise to me that "you don't have to pay a monthly sub just to buy the game" is at least ridiculous...

    I don't want you to throw me comparisons of how much I pay in games like wow and swtor, I just don't want to be treated like a child..

    A: Our game is B2P is not like the other bad guys that take monthly sub from you
    B: woo hoo this is EPIC you are the best
    A: I know :P
    B: em..the game have 8 classes but I can only play 5? how I play the rest?
    A: you pay money..
    B: But you..e..
    A: come on whats the big deal?you already pay for the others why you don't want to pay for this???
    B: But you said, very loud and about 1000 times that the game is B2P??
    A: Did I?

    I will say again..the game probably may worth more a subscription than other games around, but their tactics insult me as an adult...But I am too sensitive in bad advertising in general so you can call it over-reacting but still its true
    Last edited by papajohn4; 2012-02-03 at 12:24 PM.
    The trick of selling a PvP-MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    Then why it is called B2P???I said many times that I don't have problem to pay a monthly sub for a game such as gw2 but to sell me half of the game (yes half, cause i can't play all classes but the ~60% of them) and advertise to me that "you don't have to pay a monthly sub just to buy the game" is at least ridiculous...

    I don't want you to throw me comparisons of how much I pay in games like wow and swtor, I just don't want to be treated like a child..

    A: Our game is B2P is not like the other bad guys that take monthly sub from you
    B: woo hoo this is EPIC you are the best
    A: I know :P
    B: em..the game have 8 classes but I can only play 5? how I play the rest?
    A: you pay money..
    B: But you..e..
    A: come on whats the big deal?you already pay for the others why you don't want to pay for this???
    B: But you said, very loud and about 1000 times that the game is B2P??
    A: Did I?

    I will say again..the game probably may worth more a subscription than other games around, but their tactics insult me as an adult...But I am too sensitive in bad advertising in general so you can call it over-reacting but still its true
    Nobody knows how many character slots we'll have so stop getting your knickers in a twist over what's literally nothing.
    Their not selling you half a game, you're just been picky about something. GW1 was the same and the character slots where one of the best sellers, why would they not do it again? Don't play if you feel they are "insulting" you, stop acting like a child if you want to claim to be an adult.

    No where in the B2P, P2P or F2P model does it say they have to give you unlimited character slots or all content without an extra cost.
    Last edited by Pyre Fierceshot; 2012-02-03 at 12:28 PM.

  3. #63
    Fluffy Kitten Bloodhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    Then why it is called B2P???B2P its completely different from "its cheaper" as you said...I said many times that I don't have problem to pay a monthly sub for a game such as gw2 but to sell me half of the game (yes half, cause i can't play all classes but the ~60% of them) and advertise to me that "you don't have to pay a monthly sub just to buy the game" is at least ridiculous...

    I don't want you to throw me comparisons of how much I pay in games like wow and swtor, I just don't want to be treated like a child..

    A: Our game is B2P is not like the other bad guys that take monthly sub from you
    B: woo hoo this is EPIC you are the best
    A: I know :P
    B: em..the game have 8 classes but I can only play 5? how I play the rest?
    A: you pay money..
    B: But you..e..
    A: come on whats the big deal?you already pay for the others why you don't want to pay for this???
    B: But you said, very loud and about 1000 times that the game is B2P??
    A: Did I?

    I will say again..the game probably may worth more a subscription than other games around, but their tactics insult me as an adult...But I am too sensitive in bad advertising in general so you can call it over-reacting but still its true
    Yes it's buy to play, no lies about it. If you want extra's you can buy the extra's. Simple

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  4. #64
    The Lightbringer jvbastel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    Then why it is called B2P???B2P its completely different from "its cheaper" as you said...I said many times that I don't have problem to pay a monthly sub for a game such as gw2 but to sell me half of the game (yes half, cause i can't play all classes but the ~60% of them) and advertise to me that "you don't have to pay a monthly sub just to buy the game" is at least ridiculous...

    I don't want you to throw me comparisons of how much I pay in games like wow and swtor, I just don't want to be treated like a child..

    A: Our game is B2P is not like the other bad guys that take monthly sub from you
    B: woo hoo this is EPIC you are the best
    A: I know :P
    B: em..the game have 8 classes but I can only play 5? how I play the rest?
    A: you pay money..
    B: But you..e..
    A: come on whats the big deal?you already pay for the others why you don't want to pay for this???
    B: But you said, very loud and about 1000 times that the game is B2P??
    A: Did I?

    I will say again..the game probably may worth more a subscription than other games around, but their tactics insult me as an adult...But I am too sensitive in bad advertising in general so you can call it over-reacting but still its true
    A lot of AAA console games (every LoZ game for example) gives you 3-4 savegame options, you can't get more unless you delete characters. They're also B2P, and if you want to have more than 4 save games, you have to buy an extra copy.

    Are you also insulted by nintendo?

    To me it looks like you're looking for reasons to bash the game. Not saying that's true, but at least it looks like it, since that reasoning is silly at best.
    Monk, I need a monk!!!

  5. #65
    Pandaren Monk papajohn4's Avatar
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    GW1 was the same and the character slots where one of the best sellers, why would they not do it again?
    of course..how can you play without character slots??

    Don't play if you feel they are "insulting" you, stop acting like a child if you want to claim to be an adult
    child because I feel insulted that I must actually have to pay for something for something it is advertised to be free??I guess the child is someone who runs over a sweet-roll that someone promised to him for free without to realize that he must pay for this..

    No where in the B2P, P2P or F2P model does it say they have to give you unlimited character slots or all content without an extra cost.
    I do have all the content in wow and swtor and Aion that I am paying...I can play all the classes and use all the features of the game with only vanity items for sale, such as mounts or weapon/armor skin...I have yet to see a game that character slots are less than Classes...

    Yes it's buy to play, no lies about it. If you want extra's you can buy the extra's. Simple
    enough character slots to be able to play all classes is not considered "extras", is vital part of the game..

    Are you also insulted by nintendo?
    I don't have a Nintendo and I don't play console games so I really can't answer but I guess yes I would feel insulted if the game will force me to pay for vital content of the game, except if that game make it clear from the start that vital parts of the game will be for sale and I will have to use extra cash

    I will say AGAIN to be clear...I don't mind to pay for this game however it worth to be payed.My problem is the guy from Anet that appears in all their videos to say with a big smile "Our game does not have a monthly subscription like the other games, you don't need to pay to play, just to buy the game"...and AGAIN, enough character slots to try/play all classes is not "extras" is VITAL
    Last edited by papajohn4; 2012-02-03 at 01:06 PM.
    The trick of selling a PvP-MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    SNIP
    Stating "half a game" is such an exaggeration that you rly should be ashamed of having written such a long reply that contained only misinformation.
    "Content" will not be buyable on the in-game store. Nothing that can make ur character better will be. Character slots and storage space probably will be.
    Frankly, you will get far more from paying for a character slot than you will from paying for a month's sub (which has been more in any game that I can think of).
    Just...well, perhaps as an adult u prefer shiny pandas. I don't know. Anet's advertising (such as we've even seen lol) is open. You won't get grind fests that encourage more subs.
    I just......well, am saddened by this post.
    I'm going to cry like a little baby when Logan and Rytlock reconcile and have a glorious man-hug

  7. #67
    The Lightbringer jvbastel's Avatar
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    To be honest, I wouldn't get too upset about it. I've played GW1 since release, and never had a problem with the amount of character slots, Usually I even had some empty slots, and I never bought them in the store.

    Every payment model has its upsides and downsides. There are as much arguments against B2P games as there are against P2P or F2P ones.

    Let's say GW2 has 5 character slots, which means you can play 5 characters as long as you want, for the box cost.

    In wow you can play 50 characters, for 1 month, for the box cost.

    Whichever one of these you think is more 'fair' is totally up to you. (For me I prefer the GW2 style)
    Monk, I need a monk!!!

  8. #68
    You do realize that in order to see all the content you need only 4 slots right ? These 4 slots represent the 4 races (4 main different stories-points of view). Because if you go and say "they don't give me slots to play all the professions in order to see all the content" then why give you only 8 slots ? They should give more because there are also those biography questions that change the story slightly. Am i right ? If i was a cheap man probably yes but i understand that the game will be B2P and i will get more from my money than playing anything else.

    Edit: Oh yeah they are 5. I always seem to forget about the Norn XD
    Last edited by Solcor; 2012-02-03 at 01:42 PM.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Solcor View Post
    You do realize that in order to see all the content you need only 4 slots right ? These 4 slots represent the 4 races (4 main different stories-points of view). Because if you go and say "they don't give me slots to play all the professions in order to see all the content" then why give you only 8 slots ? They should give more because there are also those biography questions that change the story slightly. Am i right ? If i was a cheap man probably yes but i understand that the game will be B2P and i will get more from my money than playing anything else.
    Leading on from this...the (sorry, actually 5) races plus 8 prof choices plus the multiple character choices create a large number of variations, even from the start city.
    Arguing about character slots limiting gameplay choice rly is a non-issue (not saying u are Solcor ). Anet have designed the game around its varied characterisation. It is supposed to feel unique to you...the whole putting RPG back into MMORPG slogan. TO then argue that you need more character slots....it's just going against the grain.
    Personally, I probably will get all 8....but because I want to...not because I have to in order to experience everything. GW2 is a game in which ur likely to never experience everything.
    Last edited by Squirrelbanes; 2012-02-03 at 01:41 PM.
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  10. #70
    Pandaren Monk papajohn4's Avatar
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    Just...well, perhaps as an adult u prefer shiny pandas. I don't know.
    you can really click on my name and see all my starting threads + posts..I am among the top 10 panda/"new wow" haters in the forum so no I am not prefer shiny pandas...
    why are you saddened by my post? Is it difficult to say that the game is not B2P? and why always (not you specifically) bring examples of other games? I am not upset because I will probably have to pay for character slots or storage, I am upset that one of the flags of the company for game is that "you only need to buy it" and I am upset with people that cannot understand what B2P or F2P means...

    You do realize that in order to see all the content you need only 4 slots right ? These 4 slots represent the 4 races (4 main different stories-points of view). Because if you go and say "they don't give me slots to play all the professions in order to see all the content" then why give you only 8 slots ? They should give more because there are also those biography questions that change the story slightly. Am i right ? If i was a cheap man probably yes but i understand that the game will be B2P and i will get more from my money than playing anything else.
    You do realize that Classes are the core game??do you realize the difference that I am not able to play 3 out of 8 classes of an MMO game than I am not able to play as a "I born Noble" and a "I raised in the streets"?
    The trick of selling a PvP-MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelbanes View Post
    Leading on from this...the (sorry, actually 5) races plus 8 prof choices plus the multiple character choices create a large number of variations, even from the start city.
    Arguing about character slots limiting gameplay choice rly is a non-issue (not saying u are Solcor ). Anet have designed the game around its varied characterisation. It is supposed to feel unique to you...the whole putting RPG back into MMORPG slogan. TO then argue that you need more character slots....it's just going against the grain.
    Personally, I probably will get all 8....but because I want to...not because I have to in order to experience everything. GW2 is a game in which ur likely to never experience everything.
    That is exactly the point i was trying to make but i don't know if i said it correctly since English is not my native language.
    As Squirrelbanes said you are probably not going to experience everything the game has to offer but if you only want to see how all the stories pan out you have 2 choices: either buy as many slots you think are necessary for that or keep deleting your older characters and create new ones. And you say "i dont want either" then this game might not be right for you.

  12. #72
    Doesnt seem to me like gw2 has much atleast at the start then again it is new ill just wait and see before judge it first i been spoiled by wow.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    you can really click on my name and see all my starting threads + posts..I am among the top 10 panda/"new wow" haters in the forum so no I am not prefer shiny pandas...
    why are you saddened by my post? Is it difficult to say that the game is not B2P? and why always (not you specifically) bring examples of other games? I am not upset because I will probably have to pay for character slots or storage, I am upset that one of the flags of the company for game is that "you only need to buy it" and I am upset with people that cannot understand what B2P or F2P means...



    You do realize that Classes are the core game??do you realize the difference that I am not able to play 3 out of 8 classes of an MMO game than I am not able to play as a "I born Noble" and a "I raised in the streets"?
    Then tell me whats stopping you from creating a character play with him as long as you want and then deleting him to replace with something else. Maybe you will not like all 8 game-plays and if you do like them then you probably have to buy more slots or make certain sacrifices.

  14. #74
    Mechagnome Vewen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    You do realize that Classes are the core game??do you realize the difference that I am not able to play 3 out of 8 classes of an MMO game than I am not able to play as a "I born Noble" and a "I raised in the streets"?
    Well, at the end of the day, you're a lot cheaper off with B2P than with P2P. And a lot of people don't need those 8 slots, one for each class. I will probably never have the time to play all 8. In WoW, they give you this monthly fee because they need to sustain the servers and all the storage for all the characters, a price everyone pays for. Everyone pays for things most don't even use, like the enormous storage for characters. In GW2, only the people who really need the extra slots pay for it. Seems really fair to me. And it's a nice, non-intrusive way for Anet to make some additional profit, that isn't leeching or milking your costumers.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    you can really click on my name and see all my starting threads + posts..I am among the top 10 panda/"new wow" haters in the forum so no I am not prefer shiny pandas...
    why are you saddened by my post? Is it difficult to say that the game is not B2P? and why always (not you specifically) bring examples of other games? I am not upset because I will probably have to pay for character slots or storage, I am upset that one of the flags of the company for game is that "you only need to buy it" and I am upset with people that cannot understand what B2P or F2P means...



    You do realize that Classes are the core game??do you realize the difference that I am not able to play 3 out of 8 classes of an MMO game than I am not able to play as a "I born Noble" and a "I raised in the streets"?
    You do only need to buy the box to play it. Some people like to buy the box and play GW2 perhaps very casually and thus don't need extra char slots and they are very able to do so without missing anything. And some like to play GW2 as their favorite time sink (perhaps as a replacement for a P2P game) and thus want all the extras like all the char slots. The ''you're buying a half game'' is bullshit, it's not like you buy GW2 and miss any content/professions or whatever.
    The alternative would be letting everyone start with 10 character slots, and raise the price of the box significantly for everyone. The only difference then is that a lot of people are paying for something they perhaps don't even want.

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  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    you can really click on my name and see all my starting threads + posts..I am among the top 10 panda/"new wow" haters in the forum so no I am not prefer shiny pandas...
    why are you saddened by my post? Is it difficult to say that the game is not B2P? and why always (not you specifically) bring examples of other games? I am not upset because I will probably have to pay for character slots or storage, I am upset that one of the flags of the company for game is that "you only need to buy it" and I am upset with people that cannot understand what B2P or F2P means...
    Low, unjustified blow, and I apologise for generalising.
    I don't remember Anet ever saying it is B2P tbh. They're normally very clear with their definitions, and say that it's all new and doesn't conform to standard definitions. I guess it's just B2P with added cash shop features. But they've said these are cosmetic. We actually don't know how many character slots you will get at present.
    You get absolutely everything when you buy, but outside of characterisation and the role specific personal story that goes with that you will get it all... except cosmetic costumes and storage space etc.
    My point with my second post after my reply to you was that they would have to make hundreds of character slots to give players every permeation of possible characters...and it really just doesn't work to think of GW2 in the terms of what you're missing out on...rather what you're getting........because ur unique...well, kinda.
    I'm going to cry like a little baby when Logan and Rytlock reconcile and have a glorious man-hug

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    you can really click on my name and see all my starting threads + posts..I am among the top 10 panda/"new wow" haters in the forum so no I am not prefer shiny pandas...
    why are you saddened by my post? Is it difficult to say that the game is not B2P? and why always (not you specifically) bring examples of other games? I am not upset because I will probably have to pay for character slots or storage, I am upset that one of the flags of the company for game is that "you only need to buy it" and I am upset with people that cannot understand what B2P or F2P means...
    B2P means that you buy the box, and then are able to play, which is the case in gw2. They could make only one character slot available and it still would be b2p.



    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    You do realize that Classes are the core game??do you realize the difference that I am not able to play 3 out of 8 classes of an MMO game than I am not able to play as a "I born Noble" and a "I raised in the streets"?
    They are the core of the game, I doubt that anyone is seeing this differently; however, you're implying that you can't play all classess, or storyline combinations or whatever. Which is wrong, because in fact you CAN play every class, you CAN play every storyline combination, the only restriction you're having is that you can't play them all at the same time.
    Quote Originally Posted by foxHeart View Post
    Some people practically beg to be put down. They're so totally ignorant and careless that it's difficult to not comment. If you have the willpower to not insult the garbage you run into during your lfd travels, that's fine, you're the better man. But that doesn't make you the better player. Don't kid yourself.

  18. #78
    Fluffy Kitten Bloodhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post

    enough character slots to be able to play all classes is not considered "extras", is vital part of the game..
    Vital? Who's to decide what's vital really?

    4?6?8?10?20?unlimited?


    They need to draw a line somewhere you know. 5-6 isn't bad AT-ALL.

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  19. #79
    Pandaren Monk papajohn4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelbanes View Post
    Low, unjustified blow, and I apologise for generalising.
    I don't remember Anet ever saying it is B2P tbh. They're normally very clear with their definitions, and say that it's all new and doesn't conform to standard definitions. I guess it's just B2P with added cash shop features. But they've said these are cosmetic. We actually don't know how many character slots you will get at present.
    You get absolutely everything when you buy, but outside of characterisation and the role specific personal story that goes with that you will get it all... except cosmetic costumes and storage space etc.
    My point with my second post after my reply to you was that they would have to make hundreds of character slots to give players every permeation of possible characters...and it really just doesn't work to think of GW2 in the terms of what you're missing out on...rather what you're getting........because ur unique...well, kinda.
    I apologize too. I guess I am over-reacting then and maybe I have missed the point...If someone for example buy the game to play 1-2 days per week as his second MMO then probably the box will be more than enough for him...But if you are going to have gw2 as your main MMO which I plan to do, then again I think that to not be able to have all classes is kind of tricky but again maybe this is just me...For example when I started in Aion with my friends, almost all my friends tried 2-3 chars until level 10-15 and then they chose 1 and played to the end..I played 6 characters to 30 and 2 to ~25(all classes) , to get a good idea about classes, complete my Daevation set and then chose 1-2 that liked most (while I was constantly played all of them once in a while)..I just cannot stick to classes, I want to play them all..so for me being able to play all classes any time is vital...

    You do only need to buy the box to play it. Some people like to buy the box and play GW2 perhaps very casually and thus don't need extra char slots and they are very able to do so without missing anything. And some like to play GW2 as their favorite time sink (perhaps as a replacement for a P2P game) and thus want all the extras like all the char slots.
    actually this convinced me, it sounds fair...the more you play, the more you need, the more you pay...but still they should make it more clear about what will be available and what will need extra cash and how many character slots will be available from the start and how much storage you will have..some things even casuals needs them a lot.
    The trick of selling a PvP-MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  20. #80
    Stood in the Fire MissCleo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    actually this convinced me, it sounds fair...the more you play, the more you need, the more you pay...but still they should make it more clear about what will be available and what will need extra cash and how many character slots will be available from the start and how much storage you will have..some things even casuals needs them a lot.
    I'd expect them to give us more info on that sort of thing a little closer to release, as that's something that probably won't all be finalized/decided until the game is more or less done. But since we're likely to get a great deal of juicy GW2 info in the next month or two, stay tuned for any announcements about what will or won't be in the cash shop.

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