Do We Really Have A Free Will?

[Azidonis]

Nirvana, Dharmakaya.

[Deleted]

Hard determinism is not a fact, as it states in that quote it is a 'view'.

None of what you're saying proves we have a free will. We control nothing and this holds true with or without determinism.

^If your claim that we have no free will is not based on determinism, what is it based on?

[Homies]

Isn't pretty much the whole field of quantum physics still in dispute by many scientists?
I honestly don't know, but thats the assumption i am under

[Deathwarder]

That video offers only a small fragment of a much bigger discussion/idea. The idea that physics or better yet the "indisputable" relation between time and space holds some hidden away laws or map of our life is a very vague and a misfounded presumption of our understanding of space and time- offered in this video as what I would think as nothing more than food for thought. I think what Michio is getting at is the idea that given how time and space is fixed and that at any given point in time or space one's position can be calculated. Position of course in the conversation not meaning physical, although true, but simply what we are and what we've done to that point can be in fact be ascertained. The truth of the matter or should i say the theory of this is that to gain such information one would have to move faster than the speed of light all while maintaining a fixed "viewpoint" ( for lack of better words) from their origin of travel. We've yet to grasp in fact how that would work or be achieved because our idea of travel is somewhat linear. Outside of all of that whats governing our decisions or "will" isnt mapped in the star but in something...lol things ( emphasis on the plural) much closer to home and really not random or spontaneous as many would think.

Edit: Some Grammar Fixes..my apologies..tuesday night tends to end up being a bar crawl.. so take this for what you "will" lol

[Deleted]

^If your claim that we have no free will is not based on determinism, what is it based on?

It is based on our lack of control. Did you actually read the OP?

Chaos nullifies determinism. The disarray that is left is not predetermined but is still not controlled by us.

[GKLeatherCraft]

Yes, we do, No, we dont, everything on some level of nerdiness can be pulled apart, and re-assembled to represent a new theory, meaning, if you know enough big words, and stuff noone really knows about,like him, then you can make anything sound how you want it,

TL;DR i really dont think i made much sense=)

[Deleted]

If one can't know definitely what x will be after a period of time while knowing every possible factor then we effectively have free will.

[Deleted]

It is based on our lack of control.

What lack of control?

[Deathwarder]

If one can't know definitely what x will be after a period of time while knowing every possible factor then we effectively have free will.

This. The whole ignorance is bliss is what really restricts anyone from having any real grasp on damn near everything. I think Socrates had it right: All I know is that I know nothing.

[Deleted]

What lack of control?

No control over any decision we make or any thought we have or any sensation and/or emotion.

[Deleted]

It's naturally paradoxical, I find. Despite our abilities to make decisions and take actions as we choose, I believe we make decisions based on our nature, nurture and external surroundings. Flip the coin and it lands on its edge for me.

To quote the Hitch being deliberately ironic: "I believe we have free will, because we have no choice."

[Deleted]

I believe we make decisions based on our nature, nurture and external surroundings.

In this sense I agree.

[Deleted]

It's naturally paradoxical, I find. Despite our abilities to make decisions and take actions as we choose, I believe we make decisions based on our nature, nurture and external surroundings. Flip the coin and it lands on its edge for me.

To quote the Hitch being deliberately ironic: "I believe we have free will, because we have no choice."

Exactly this. The confines of deviation are too small to be considered free will.

And even those 'confines' are not certain as third party reactions and forces could be responsible.

[Deleted]

The confines of deviation are too small to be considered free will.

Too small?

[Kazuku65]

humans will never grasp the concept of free will, nor were we ever meant to imo. That would just completely ruin life.

edit: Think of free will like being in a fishbowl. We are free to move around said fish bowl, our lives define what we can obtain in said fish bowl (like a nice castle that blows bubbles!) Think of the water as time, and your owner and the one who understands everything. (Be it, God, buddah, etc. etc. w/e you believe) The owner is outside of time but being the one who made you, knows how you work and the decisions you will make. Our (the fish) understanding of time/life/free will/philosophy of all kinds etc. ends at that glass bowl. We can never fully grasp what the owner knows or our little fish brains would explode.

[Deleted]

Too small?

For the sake of discussion. In the event that a free will existed (which it doesn't).

Then, we are still presented with very few and small choices. Sit here or sit there, vanilla or chocolate. All inconsequential.

Though none of this is even relevant as we have no free will.

[Creotor]

Why do you care, exactly? Let me paint a picture for you.

When you're born, you have a certain genetics set (call it whatever you want) that will affect your whole life in a certain way. There's your surroundings (everything from your parents to the stars the light of which you may not ever even see), it affects all of your life in a certain way as well. All your actions, all your "choices" are manufactured by those 2 factors. If you choose to change either (I'm sure genetic changes aren't that far in the future), all you're doing is following orders dictated by the aforementioned factors, so that's not really a choice either. I do not know whether 100% determinism exists or not, but that doesn't matter in this case either, as stated in your post.

I don't really have anything on Michio Kaku and I know only very basic physics, but the idea of electrons directly controlling (NOT affecting, controlling) your thinking process still baffles me and I doubt it's correct. People like him may be fun to listen to, but a lot of their breakthroughs are theories based on theories which are based on harmonic structures and what seems like it makes sense. He could be wrong ten times over.

To sum up, you don't really have free will, at least I don't think so. However, you still have your choices. They will affect your life. You're the one making them. Let go of this stupid bullshit.

[Ghostie]

It's not stupid at all, it's interesting to hear the ideas based on a combination of philosophies, ideas about science and what not. And it's also fun to discuss things provided people don't say 'i'm right and you're wrong and that's the way it is' or get mean. We're all just guessing anyway, educated or not, let people have their fun.

[Kelta]

I think Socrates had it right: All I know is that I know nothing.

This reminds me of some of my martial arts training: once you thought you understood the concept of a technique, you'd suddenly look at it in a different way and realize that all of your previous thinking on the concept was now irrelevant except for the fact that it brought you to the new thinking. This is not a one-time process - it repeats continuously, and the new thinking becomes the old thinking with each leap of understanding.

And in the end? After countless iterations of critical thought, experimentation and assessment? Right back at square one, still practicing the basics. Knowing that you know nothing is the first step to wisdom.


On the original topic though; LaPlace's demon is a thought experiment along these lines. However, I'll stick with free will being the result of unpredictable interactions in brain matter, in much the same way that some genetic mutation is the result of unpredictable result of the DNA replication process.

[Roose]

Everything is going to be confined to the universe as we know it. There are so many outside factors that have undeniable impacts on our decisions. We have only the illusion of free will. Until we know exactly what motivates all of our behavior, that is all it can be.

Are you making that decision because you want to, or because there is something biologically or physiologically impacting that decision that you are unaware of?