Do We Really Have A Free Will?

[Catta]

Are you at all bound by a scheduled? or what about a job?
Our culture has set an expectation for us: to be productive members of that society. (Here is where I may give you hope)We may be able to choose if we want to be part of that culture or not, but when we take a rational person person they would see these 2 outcomes
1. Be part of the culture and live a normal life(set by the standards of the culture) and be relatively happy
2. Reject the culture, live in a culture that you approve of. Or live in the previous culture and be a deviant which would entail poor living conditions

I personally dont think we are given much choice in the matter if we want to "be a productive member of society" it is thrust upon us.

one can choose to do what one likes... Its a plus if it coincides with something that can earn you a living

[Deleted]

Do you guys realise that "free will" is a human consciousness and feeling attribute. It can't be used on brain or electron. Talking about free will of brain is like talking about color of sound or education of a stone. It makes no sence. Physics or biology can give no answer on this question, because this question in science context is flawed, it a nonsence.
Written story =/= letters
WoW =/= Core i7
Human consciousness =/= brain

It's same if I ask you: "Why is 2+2=3" and you start writing whole textes with explanations, not realising that an error is in the question itself. It's a pain to see.

[Deleted]

Rmn,

Try telling a neuroscientist that :P

Although, I would agree one could not adress this question with science alone, it's an inherently philosophical endevour (for now at the very least). But current scientific understanding to serve as premises would of course be the basis of such discussion. I think there is important distinctions to be made between the 'mind' and the 'brain' also.

[Deleted]

Neuroscience in this context is not about if human have a free will, it's about mechanisms of humans making decisions, what parameters one can manupulate to manipulate decisions, what part of decisions is conscious etc

[Deleted]

is not about if human have a free will, it's about mechanisms of humans making decisions

Hmm? I have no say on the matter really, but it seems like you've said the same thing twice. I'm really in over my head though, I think everyone here is. Any neuroscientist lurking?

Anyway, what does free will mean to you? In what ways is it distinct to the mechanisms of human decision making?

So we are clear, are you implying some sort of dualism?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism...sophy_of_mind)

In philosophy of mind, dualism is the assumption that mental phenomena are, in some respects non-physical,[1] or that the mind and body are distinct.[2] Thus, it encompasses a set of views about the relationship between mind and matter, and is contrasted with other positions, such as physicalism, in the mind–body problem.[1][2]

[Deleted]

Philosophy.... Dudes in the cave with shadows on the wall. No time to convince how amazing thinker I am by throwing out some fancy words. I just saw the sun through the window and I need to go out and have sex with all the beatiful naked people.

Ps. Fuck grammar.

[Knight Gil]

Think about performing a specific action. Anything. Move any part of your body, or go eat something, whatever you want. Then ask yourself: could you have choosen to do otherwise?

If the answer is yes, and you recognize you had more than one option to choose from, you're aknowledging there is such a thing as free will.

Now, one can say that it still doesn't prove that determinism isn't true, and I agree with that. But how can someone disagree that there are options?

[Deleted]

This may not be immediately relavant, but it definitely has some implications if you're gonna be discussing the subject. I'm gonna and copy and paste this whole segment, so get ready for a wall of text;

What if we told you that what you think of as "the present" is actually slightly in the past? Basically, your life isn't a live feed: It's a delayed broadcast that your brain is constantly editing and censoring for your convenience.

The delay isn't much -- what's 80 milliseconds between you and your brain? Nothing, right? Well, a group of neuroscientists disagree. They've come up with some freaky time-altering experiments to prove that this difference can change your perspective of cause and effect. For example, in one experiment the volunteers were told to press a button that would cause a light to flash, with a short delay. After 10 or so tries, the volunteers were beginning to see the flash immediately after they pressed the button -- their brains had gotten used to the delay and decided to edit it out. Yes, that's a thing your brain can do.

But that's not the freaky part. When the scientists removed the delay, the volunteers reported seeing the flash before they pressed the button. Their brains, in trying to reconstruct the events, messed up and switched the order. They were seeing the consequence first and the action second.

Not convinced? Try this: Touch your nose and your toe at the same time. Logic says that you should feel your nose first, because it's right there in your face (hopefully) and therefore the sensory signal doesn't have to travel too long before reaching the brain, whereas your toe is at the extreme opposite end. The physical distance a message has to travel on neurological pathways is much longer from toes than from nose, and yet you feel both things at the same time. According to neuroscientist David Eagleman, that's because your brain always tries to synchronize the sensory information that it gets from your body in a way that will make sense to you, but it can only do that by pushing your consciousness slightly into the past, like a radio station that's always on a five-second delay in case somebody curses on air.

The bizarre real-world implication is that the taller you are, the further back you live in the past, since it takes longer for the information to travel through your body -- and if you're a little person, you live closer to the present.

If you're not living in the present, are you really making the decisions or have the decisions already been made for you?

[Grizzly Willy]

inhere people can sit and say: Naw we dont have free will - only the illusion
And then go out into the world just the same using their supposedly unfree will just the way they want

I posit that it is impossible for a person to act under the notion that their decisions are not their own, even if they aren't under control. *I don't believe freewill exists (I find every explanation towards the contrary to be a bit lacking) but I still operate under the assumption that I am free.

Think about performing a specific action. Anything. Move any part of your body, or go eat something, whatever you want. Then ask yourself: could you have choosen to do otherwise?


If the answer is yes, and you recognize you had more than one option to choose from, you're aknowledging there is such a thing as free will.*


Now, one can say that it still doesn't prove that determinism isn't true, and I agree with that. But how can someone disagree that there are options?

The existence of other choices doesn't mean you actually have the ability to chose between them. *Or, the option to do otherwise doesn't entail the ability to do otherwise. *

[Deleted]

Neuroscientists are able to do an experiment that predicts what decision a person is going to make about 6-7 seconds before they even realise they've made a decision. I personally think that an illusion of free will doesn't even matter... basically everything is an illusion to us in some form or another. Hell, even believing free will is an illusion is an illusion!

[Feranor]

"Der Mensch kann zwar tun, was er will, aber er kann nicht wollen, was er will." -Arthur Schopenhauer

("While man can do what he wills, he cannot will what he wills.")

[ptwonline]

The mechanics of how we use our brains to come to a decision are so complex and unknown that this whole debate for now is pretty useless. It's just philosophy that tells us little or nothing about the real, physical world.

[Grizzly Willy]

Ofcourse there is free will. Just because some things are set in stone, like gravity, doesn't stop you from using your free will and building a machine that can defy it.

Free will is influenced by the rules of the Universe, but it is not determined by them.

Could you, then, elaborate on the mechanics of the self that allow for independent desires?

[Feranor]

We'd first have to agree on a definition of 'free will' in any case.

[inux94]

Nope.

Most people are forced to work like a slave/zombie 8-10 hours a day, if that is free will then I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

[tj119]

Yes and no, we can control what we want to eat or what we want to do for the day. But we can't control when we die, or if we get cancer.