1. #2401
    Brewmaster Aveline's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Right here.
    Posts
    1,432
    Quote Originally Posted by jtgizmo View Post

    The whole indoctrination theory IS actually true, but not in the way you think, as in all that was put in on purpose by Bioware. In fact everything you see - the plot holes and everything were on purpose put in to guide you into thinking something is wrong, not right, it does not make sense. Even more so and I think I am actually quite on the spot with this: The reason why the the control and synthesis were in blue (paragon) and destroy was in orange (renegade) - is because bioware actually try to manipulate you. The bioware tried to indoctrinate the player into thinking if they choose blue (paragon) you would have the best solution. It is a natural choice to be taken by the players (usually, just saying - not saying that everyone played a paragon shep)

    If you go against everything you think or believe and choose orange (renegade) you break the indoctrination - you break indoctrination - but you also go against your better belief of higher goodness.

    Now everything you see is illusion, including the jokers flight etc etc. However if you have enough EMS - Shepard lives. so if you keep trying you can get the ultimate best ending, where Shepar and the player define the reapers and indoctrination and actually survive: Shepard survives: giving way for future DLC
    If this proves to be true then BioWare will turn out to be even a bigger troll than I could've imagined. That would certainly make a nice twist, though!

    | Sig by Shyama <3 | Playing: Guild Wars 2, SWTOR, Diablo 3 |

  2. #2402
    Pandaren Monk Deleo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    In the dark. Watching. Waiting
    Posts
    1,769
    Quote Originally Posted by Aveline View Post
    If this proves to be true then BioWare will turn out to be even a bigger troll than I could've imagined. That would certainly make a nice twist, though!
    The question is was it their original plan or did we hand them the idea.
    I've walked the realms of the dead. I have seen the infinite dark. Nothing you say. Or do. Could possibly frighten me.
    We are not monsters! We are not the mindless wretches of a ghoul army! NO! We are a force even more terrifying! We are the chill in a coward's spine! We are the instruments of an unyielding ire! WE ARE THE FORSAKEN!
    Those who do not stand with the Forsaken stand against them. And those who stand against the Forsaken will not stand long.

  3. #2403
    Brewmaster Aveline's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Right here.
    Posts
    1,432
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleo View Post
    The question is was it their original plan or did we hand them the idea.
    At this point if it wasn't they should just go with it. If it actually was their plan all along... Well played. :P I've been pretty keen on the Shepard's indoctrination-theory already, but I was more refering jt's idea that BioWare tried to "indoctrinate" the player too. Not just Shepard. I'm not sure if you get what I mean. :P

    | Sig by Shyama <3 | Playing: Guild Wars 2, SWTOR, Diablo 3 |

  4. #2404
    While I love the indoctrination theory, and I believe it to be plausible on its own merits, I simply don't think it's true. Read BioWare's responses. Unless they're still trying to troll us, it's not true. They haven't flat out denied it, but many employees have indicated that the idea had never occurred to them.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  5. #2405
    Pandaren Monk Deleo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    In the dark. Watching. Waiting
    Posts
    1,769
    Quote Originally Posted by Aveline View Post
    At this point if it wasn't they should just go with it. If it actually was their plan all along... Well played. :P I've been pretty keen on the Shepard's indoctrination-theory already, but I was more refering jt's idea that BioWare tried to "indoctrinate" the player too. Not just Shepard. I'm not sure if you get what I mean. :P
    My point was even if it was their initial plan, which I'll explain later why I don't think it was, they can't take credit for it anymore. It will always be considered an escape plan handed to them by players.

    I think if it was their initial plan for the ending we wouldn't have seen the kind of posts we have been seeing from them these few days. "We don't have a plan to change the ending" which got replaced with "We are listening and we may change the ending" later is not the kinda response you give people when you have had a plan all along. Something in line with "We all know you are angry but ME3 is not over yet" seems more likely if that was the case. Their reaction is like a person who just got hit by shitstorm and is trying to control the damage rather than a person who knew what was coming at him and is ready for it.

    Edit: However if they came out and said that their ending sucked and apologized for that and then create a new ending based on the indoctrination idea then it is +10000000 paragon points from fans.
    Last edited by Deleo; 2012-03-20 at 12:01 PM.
    I've walked the realms of the dead. I have seen the infinite dark. Nothing you say. Or do. Could possibly frighten me.
    We are not monsters! We are not the mindless wretches of a ghoul army! NO! We are a force even more terrifying! We are the chill in a coward's spine! We are the instruments of an unyielding ire! WE ARE THE FORSAKEN!
    Those who do not stand with the Forsaken stand against them. And those who stand against the Forsaken will not stand long.

  6. #2406
    Brewmaster Aveline's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Right here.
    Posts
    1,432
    As some people have guessed over here, I don't think BioWare was prepared for the shitstorm this all caused. Granted it's been a bit too long already for them to claim the indoctrination theory (even though I still think it's brilliant), but overall they seem to be rather hush hush about this. You're just given tiny hints but nothing tipping the scale one way or another. Yes, there was that one slip where someone said there's no intention to fiddle with the endings but it was taken back pretty quickly when the shitstorm rose again. My guess is that they're waiting for the panel on April 6th but by that time they've propably lost a ton of people who had faith in them. And this is by the guessing basis that they'll reveal a DLC or something compensating the disappointment people have with the current endings.

    | Sig by Shyama <3 | Playing: Guild Wars 2, SWTOR, Diablo 3 |

  7. #2407
    The Lightbringer Collegeguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    3,692
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleo View Post
    My point was even if it was their initial plan, which I'll explain later why I don't think it was, they can't take credit for it anymore. It will always be considered an escape plan handed to them by players.

    I think if it was their initial plan for the ending we wouldn't have seen the kind of posts we have been seeing from them these few days. "We don't have a plan to change the ending" which got replaced with "We are listening and we may change the ending" later is not the kinda response you give people when you have had a plan all along. Something in line with "We all know you are angry but ME3 is not over yet" seems more likely if that was the case. Their reaction is like a person who just got hit by shitstorm and is trying to control the damage rather than a person who knew what was coming at him and is ready for it.

    Edit: However if they came out and said that their ending sucked and apologized for that and then create a new ending based on the indoctrination idea then it is +10000000 paragon points from fans.
    I don't think people mind. Indoctrination theory works nicely with the events and it gives the game a different direction. I also don't think they truly planned to end it at that. I think they were making a hole to fill later on with other Mass Effect games, comics, or content where easter eggs or back story could tell you what happened.

  8. #2408
    I am Murloc! ita's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Malmö
    Posts
    5,170
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackMagicMarkel View Post
    ....Hrm.

    Does Clockwork Orange ring a bell? The Shining? Spartacus perhaps?
    Spartacus? You mean the TV show that's mostly about naked people and flying blood and limbs?
    Remember remember the fifth of November
    Gunpowder, treason and plot.
    I see no reason why gunpowder, treason
    Should ever be forgot...

  9. #2409
    Quote Originally Posted by RevanSparda View Post
    EA rushed SWTOR development, no surprise if they rushed ME3 too
    through my second playthrough i've noticed little hints here and there that point to this.

    Enemies - A lack of Variance, i think they are better done in this game then 2, with class types and recognisability, but theres still just reapers/cerberus/Geth and nothing else At all in the past you had the previous ones as well as collectors, Krogans, droids, Vorcha, turians, difference types of mercs, also a bigger variety of wildlife ones too.

    Missions - As above, all cerberus/Geth/reaper missions, no space pirates, no mercenaries, no random planet with just wildlife. All sidequests from citadel are fetch and carry, most completed via scanning the planet, or finding a item on the main/N7 missions(or purchasing from specte) none take you down to the planet whic his disapointing, one of those badger people a banker has you going to find some mercenaries you complete it by....scanning the planet, this is obviously cut otu content, why wouldnt they have let you go down to the plant and help/rescue the team, or find the banner. some have excused this as "wanting to keep a focus on the way, no time to go around the planets" but no, there are still complete bastards in the galaxy who will use the reapers attacking to further their own interests, why no missions against them. Liara has her shadowbroker setup in the ship, why cant i do some work for her, along the lines of the kasumi mission with some infiltration, just to break up the constant shooting.

    Characters/conversations - some conversations such as the tali drunk dont have proper conversation wheels or renegade/paragon prompts, it was a very fun scene, but why can i not interact! thats seems to have been really underdone. couple of the new characters werent fleshed out well, especiall since ones a LI, Cortez was done really well IMO, but Traynor doesnt leave the ship ad little interaction outside of the chess scene, and Vega later on has very little interaction, i would have at least liked a Vega mission, akin to the loyalty missions for the first game, ditto for EDI.

    Length - its the shortest of the 3 my other saves easily clocked in over 50 hours a piece before DLC, both my playthroughs - normal and insanity with about 7.5k war assets and all n7 quests done clocked in about 38 hours.

    and thats not even touching the ending, I can just see lots of corners cut, i enjoyed the game throughly on both playthroughs, but i think with another 12 months of work on it could have been a truely epic conclusion.
    Last edited by AnthonyUK; 2012-03-20 at 12:36 PM.

  10. #2410
    Quote Originally Posted by -Dalliah- View Post
    I don't think they are allowed to deny/acknowledge it. Pretty much the same with Blizzards responses in any Q/A: "Maybe." "We'll see about that." "Soon." etc.
    Guess we'll just have to wait til April 6th.
    Whats happening on 6th April?

  11. #2411
    Quote Originally Posted by Toccs View Post
    Whats happening on 6th April?
    PAx east Mass effect presentation thing i think

  12. #2412
    Old God Nerraw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    10,839
    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyUK View Post
    PAx east Mass effect presentation thing i think
    Yep, that is correct.

  13. #2413
    Herald of the Titans The Illusive Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,640
    One quick question: I have finished my first playthrough last weekend and now I am wondering what happens if I import the Shepard from the first playthrough to the new game or if it is better to start a fresh char (want to play female but my first shepard was male).

    Do you still have the reptuation, weapons, credits and the level from your first playthrough after starting a new game with the imported char?

    Edit: Basically I would like to know the benefits from importing an existing shepard to a new savegame.
    Last edited by The Illusive Man; 2012-03-20 at 12:50 PM.

  14. #2414
    SpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSp oilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoi lersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoile rsSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilers SpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSp oilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoilersSpoi lersSpoilersSpoilers


    I was disappointed in me3 in general... I wasn't big fun of the combat "take cover, shoot, take cover, shoot, repeat repeat repeat" in previous games but didn't really care about it since i wanted to see the story/quests etc. The whole "epic" feeling didn't really stick with me, the various quests were too generic (plus it didn't matter in the end). No existent side quests, the combat was as usual blunt (i switched to hardcore from the beginning), then you had characters like kai lang or whatever his name was. Shepard tries to blast him through a window (while in the taxi scene), the window is bullet proof. Then kai lang proceeds to destroy the taxi's engines with his sword. Dafug. Yes yes, the sword had one million mass effect reactors on it and wtfpwned the taxi. Shepards pistol couldn't shutter a window? Also don't get me started with the actual fights from this guy:
    -Yes sir, we know you carry a black widow sniper rifle upgraded 5 times, using barrier shattering ammo, but look, kai lang is recharging using the buildings power source! You can't break that! No no no. At the same time, fight those guys that spawned out of nowhere.

    Moving on to more serious problems. Walking around earth a little before the end was nice but it really should have been somewhat earlier in the game. Seeing it at the end felt out of place. You were there, while in space was raging a gigantic battle with EVERYONE vs the reapers and there you are, taking a stroll through the HQ, talking to your squad, saying goodbyes etc.

    I mean in general the game felt rushed. They could have done so much more with it but they didn't. Cerberus was completely, and i mean, completely uninteresting until Sanctuary, then returned to uninteresting. Plus ok, they explained where they got the troops. The gear though? by the end i must have killed five gazillion cerberus troops. They had THAT much resources even after they spent a fortune getting my ass revived, rebuilding normady, equipping it with a AI etc?

    Then you had the reapers and their troops. I understand that i am supposed to be special. I'm supposed to be around other special people but it turns out, apart from me and my squad, the rest of the galaxy are completely incompetent m0r0ns who just happen to have cannon fodder i need. Instead of trying to take out the reapers, they should have just cloned me a few millions times in a remote facility and just wait 20 years to go and shoot them out of the galaxy.
    You also have an advanced machine. A REAPER. Capable of destroying whole cities in a few minutes. But wait, hey, i can kite it around a 20 meter cliff long enough for normandy to blast it into pieces from space. Dafuq??? (I'm talking about the scene in Tali's homeworld.)

    Then you have the endings. Before reading about the indoctrination theory I had lost complete faith in the game. It felt.... idiotic to say the least. It didn't make sense, it couldn't be DONE even in a sci-fi setting (like others said, how do you make everyone in the galaxy hybrids with just energy?) and the part that the reapers were actually trying to preserve life would be really nice if they had bothered to expand on it THROUGHOUT the whole game. Now I just had a kid/reaper telling me arguments that like somebody else in this thread said, aren't fit for a high school discussion. They could have pulled it, but not like that. They could have added more content to the game, researching the reapers and finding out info about how a civilization ended up creating the reapers as a method to preserve organic life. Not just one line! That is just sloppy.

    About the indoctrination theory. It's nice, but at the same time, EVEN if they had planned it all along, it still doesn't make sense. Shepard is having visions throughout the game of that child. The only way to be falling indoctrinated is if he is having constant contact with reaper artifacts. His first vision is very early in the game after a long period of just sitting around in an alliance facility. If they can affect his brain so fast, he would be like the illusive man in no time.
    Now the main problem: is he affected so much, that he is having visions, has he finally succumbed to the reapers? Then he would never even have a choice instead of just committing suicide. Remember that specter in me 1 who was indoctrinated? Just like the illusive man, he regained enough will in the end, to SHOOT himself not break the reaper's hold completely.
    Is he not affected so much? then sure, the reaper is just trying to mess with him. But how can he can't realize that? He spends so much time talking to the illusive man, with only available options: no, you are wrong, no, you are wrong, you are an idiot, you are wrong, etc then proceeds to talk to a reaper and just go with "yes, really??? ooook man!".

    Anyway, i don't know... the game felt half done in my opinion. They could have put in so much stuff: missions in earth, more side quests, more meaningful impact of your choices. Strategic plans for the fleets not just "move in and shoot stuff until i get there"...

    Hm... quite a long rant!


    SPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSP OILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOI LERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILE RSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERS SPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSP OILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOI LERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERS

  15. #2415
    The Lightbringer Collegeguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    3,692
    Quote Originally Posted by Megaira View Post
    One quick question: I have finished my first playthrough last weekend and now I am wondering what happens if I import the Shepard from the first playthrough to the new game or if it is better to start a fresh char (want to play female but my first shepard was male).

    Do you still have the reptuation, weapons, credits and the level from your first playthrough after starting a new game with the imported char?

    Edit: Basically I would like to know the benefits from importing an existing shepard to a new savegame.
    secret ending is available with newgame+

  16. #2416
    Quote Originally Posted by Collegeguy View Post
    secret ending is available with newgame+
    Secret ending where shep lives? I got that in my first playthough or you talking about something else?

  17. #2417
    Quote Originally Posted by Toccs View Post
    Secret ending where shep lives? I got that in my first playthough or you talking about something else?
    the stargazer buzz aldrin "story of the shepard" bit, is available on NG+ or if you have imported from ME2

  18. #2418
    The Lightbringer Collegeguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    3,692
    Quote Originally Posted by Toccs View Post
    Secret ending where shep lives? I got that in my first playthough or you talking about something else?
    idk, thats what I read in a guide. I think maybe your readiness carries over so its easier to get secret ending. I haven't really bothered with it newgame+ since the ending isn't really that rewarding. I just played mutliplayer for it.

  19. #2419
    Quote Originally Posted by Collegeguy View Post
    idk, thats what I read in a guide. I think maybe your readiness carries over so its easier to get secret ending. I haven't really bothered with it newgame+ since the ending isn't really that rewarding. I just played mutliplayer for it.
    The official strategy guide lies. The "secret ending" is the Stargazer scene, and it is available on NG+ or on an ME2 import.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  20. #2420
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    The official strategy guide lies. The "secret ending" is the Stargazer scene, and it is available on NG+ or on an ME2 import.
    Ah that explains alot... i'm one of those people that always starts from ME1 whenever i start a new game, never from ME2 or 3 god no

    I'm the same with Baldur's gate or any other game that allows you to carry your character over.
    Last edited by Toccs; 2012-03-20 at 01:25 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •