[Megathread] Mass Effect 3

[Beavis]

The only problem with it being a "template" or the "pre-reaper" reaper is that why has it gone unnoticed for billions of years in a crater on a planet? Even from the reapers when they "reset" the worlds. It has to be a Reaper that was killed within the last few cycles if not the last cycle. It could still be a very old Reaper or the "first" reaper but it has to have died relatively recently to be on the planet.


I don't see the Reapers keeping a non-reaper prototype alive and around because it would still be a non-reaper. This might also hint at the "cycle and pattern" problems people have. It could reveal that the Reapers are the original machines that revolted and that is why they see all AI as eventually revolting against organics because it is what they did and the conclusion they came to.

I don't think it said that the Leviathan had been there for a billion years, only that the Leviathan itself was a billion years old. The Leviathan is definitely a Reaper and it appears to be different from the usual giant metal cuttlefish, so a proto-Reaper could be an explanation. It could also be that they just retconned it into a regular Reaper and it isn't actually different at all.

[Deleted]

I don't think it said that the Leviathan had been there for a billion years, only that the Leviathan itself was a billion years old. The Leviathan is definitely a Reaper and it appears to be different from the usual giant metal cuttlefish, so a proto-Reaper could be an explanation. It could also be that they just retconned it into a regular Reaper and it isn't actually different at all.

Would be more fun to fight the Grandfather of reapers, the one who was the first to subjucate a race and start the spiral.
As long as he wont go Sovereign-Saren 2.0 and jump around like a energizer-bunny on speed...

[rhorle]

I don't think it said that the Leviathan had been there for a billion years, only that the Leviathan itself was a billion years old. The Leviathan is definitely a Reaper and it appears to be different from the usual giant metal cuttlefish, so a proto-Reaper could be an explanation. It could also be that they just retconned it into a regular Reaper and it isn't actually different at all.

Just because it is described a certainly way doesn't mean it is a retcon. I know that it was said to be a billion years and not on the planet for a billion years. That is my point. It can't be a prototype or before-reaper-ship because the Reapers wouldn't have let such a thing exist for billions of years. It means two things are possible:

1)It is a reaper but was described as a genetically engineered spaceship rather then a synthetic-organic hybrid life form
because they've never seen anything like that before.
2)Other life forms with the power of the reapers exist that the reapers haven't culled that allows for such a vessel to exist for billions of years without being assimilated.

They reapers only allow reapers. We know though that it was an inactive reapers and indoctrinated a lot of the Batarian Hegemony. So its not number 2. Every reaper ever encountered has always had the same appearence (minus the few that have individual cosmetic differences).

[Leonard McCoy]

Just because it is described a certainly way doesn't mean it is a retcon. I know that it was said to be a billion years and not on the planet for a billion years. That is my point. It can't be a prototype or before-reaper-ship because the Reapers wouldn't have let such a thing exist for billions of years. It means two things are possible:

1)It is a reaper but was described as a genetically engineered spaceship rather then a synthetic-organic hybrid life form
because they've never seen anything like that before.
2)Other life forms with the power of the reapers exist that the reapers haven't culled that allows for such a vessel to exist for billions of years without being assimilated.

They reapers only allow reapers. We know though that it was an inactive reapers and indoctrinated a lot of the Batarian Hegemony. So its not number 2. Every reaper ever encountered has always had the same appearence (minus the few that have individual cosmetic differences).

The reapers are not infallible or omnipresent. This thing could have existed in the depths of space for years without the reapers knowing, got caught in a passing large body (say an asteroid) and pulled into the galaxy within recent cycles.

[Beavis]

Just because it is described a certainly way doesn't mean it is a retcon. I know that it was said to be a billion years and not on the planet for a billion years. That is my point. It can't be a prototype or before-reaper-ship because the Reapers wouldn't have let such a thing exist for billions of years. It means two things are possible:

1)It is a reaper but was described as a genetically engineered spaceship rather then a synthetic-organic hybrid life form
because they've never seen anything like that before.
2)Other life forms with the power of the reapers exist that the reapers haven't culled that allows for such a vessel to exist for billions of years without being assimilated.

They reapers only allow reapers. We know though that it was an inactive reapers and indoctrinated a lot of the Batarian Hegemony. So its not number 2. Every reaper ever encountered has always had the same appearence (minus the few that have individual cosmetic differences).

We know from the mission inside the derelict and the creation of the human Reaper that the organic component of a Reaper is limited. The Catalyst also definitively describes the Reapers as synthetic, not hybrids. So, I don't think there's any reason why the Batarians would describe something 95% machine with some orange organic goo in it as genetically engineered.

It also isn't true that the Reapers won't tolerate "non-Reapers." The Collectors clearly prove that they're fine with indoctrinated bio-synthetic constructs that aren't morphologically identical to themselves. Same goes for all the Reaper ground forces we see in the game. Finally, the Catalyst ultimately controls the Reapers. If this thing was the first Reaper, built from the technology of the Catalyst's creators, why would the Catalyst destroy it?

As to why it was left there in the first place, the derelict shows that they don't really clean up after themselves particularly well and that makes sense. They really have no reason not to leave causalities behind. Even a dead Reaper can apparently indoctrinate.

[Deleted]

Even a dead Reaper can apparently indoctrinate.

"Even a dead god can dream."

Which is highly unfair to us mortals.

[Florena]

Lets hope they do a better job clarifying it than they "clarified" the endings then.

Hell, the sun dying of dark matter that Haestrom was orbiting somehow fixed itself.

Yeah, that plot point was forshadowing the original purpose of the Reapers, but they decided in 3 to go with the 'synthetics vs organics' thing.

[Deleted]

Yeah, that plot point was forshadowing the original purpose of the Reapers, but they decided in 3 to go with the 'synthetics vs organics' thing.

Indeed, but it would had been nice to see somewhere.
If they make ME4, it could be the plot.
Reapers are dealt with, now its time to save the galaxy - for real.

-Controll ending was chosen
CataShep sending Reapers into suns to gather information... before they melt down and are destroyed.

[Karah]

I still think that star child is trying a bit too hard to convince us, especially in the synthetic ending.
Every organic will be made partly synthetic and synthetics will understand.

I still want my blue children ending, sitting on the beach and drinking with Garrus :<

[Gouky]

I still think that star child is trying a bit too hard to convince us, especially in the synthetic ending.
Every organic will be made partly synthetic and synthetics will understand.

I still want my blue children ending, sitting on the beach and drinking with Garrus :<

happy ending is not always the option.

[Leonard McCoy]

happy ending is not always the option.

Nor does it make sense for Me3. People tend to forget the scope of what's happening. The reaper cycles have been going on for many millenia. Changing what has more or less been the fundamental order of the universe for countless years will have consequences.

[rhorle]

It also isn't true that the Reapers won't tolerate "non-Reapers." The Collectors clearly prove that they're fine with indoctrinated bio-synthetic constructs that aren't morphologically identical to themselves. Same goes for all the Reaper ground forces we see in the game. Finally, the Catalyst ultimately controls the Reapers. If this thing was the first Reaper, built from the technology of the Catalyst's creators, why would the Catalyst destroy it?

The collectors weren't Reapers they were slaves. No different then a banshee, ravager, brute, husk or any of the other "slaves"/tools of the reapers. The collectors also couldn't indoctrinate others however the Leviathan did do exactly that. When I said the Reapers only allow Reapers it was to indicate that they don't share the top spot with others. They all resemble the same form and materials. They wouldn't allow a sub-standard form to exist. Either the proto-type would be assimilated into a new form if it was inferior, or the other reapers would be rebuilt in to be like the prototype if it was superior.

Who says the Catalyst destroyed the Leviathan of Dis? Nothing indicates how it got to where it got, and everything indicates that it was still in service of the Reapers/Catalyst since you know it indoctrinated people to make the Reapers culling easier in Batarian space. The data mined info about the DLC indicates something far different then the catalyst destroying it because its a prototype.

They have every reason to clean up after themselves, so others don't become wise to the cycle and defend themselves from the start. Just look at what full knowledge of the reapers, tech, and whatever else was included allowed a cycle's inhabitants to do when you pick the refuse option of the Extended Cut. Just think what would have happened this cycle if all the race's shared everything they knew and took the 3 years of the mass effect games to prepare for war with the Reapers. Heck just the Asari sharing their info would have drastically changed the war against the Reapers and the Crucible likely would have been built and waiting for the reapers. Or what tech the Illusive Man would have had if he found the Derelict reaper years ago and could salvage and learn from it. We could have had a galaxy indoctrinated/controlled by the Illusive Man waiting to fight or serve the Reapers.

---------- Post added 2012-06-27 at 04:51 PM ----------

Lets hope they do a better job clarifying it than they "clarified" the endings then.

Hell, the sun dying of dark matter that Haestrom was orbiting somehow fixed itself.

Who says it fixed itself? Just because it isn't the big reason doesn't mean it was magically fixed. The sun is still dying for the reasons it was dying. Those reasons just didn't turn out to be the ultimate purpose of the Reapers. Doesn't change anything though.

[Beavis]

The collectors weren't Reapers they were slaves. No different then a banshee, ravager, brute, husk or any of the other "slaves"/tools of the reapers. The collectors also couldn't indoctrinate others however the Leviathan did do exactly that. When I said the Reapers only allow Reapers it was to indicate that they don't share the top spot with others. They all resemble the same form and materials. They wouldn't allow a sub-standard form to exist. Either the proto-type would be assimilated into a new form if it was inferior, or the other reapers would be rebuilt in to be like the prototype if it was superior.

Why does it matter if they're slaves? The Reapers aren't at the top of the pyramid, the Catalyst is. Prior to this game, we'd never seen a destroyer either. And, the human Reaper didn't seem to be a space ship at all. So, it is entirely possible that there are other configurations of Reaper that we're not aware of. But, even if that isn't the case, it could also be possible that because the entirety of the Creator species was already interred in the Leviathan, it couldn't be retrofitted without destroying some vital part of their essence. They could come up with some kind of reasonable explanation if they wanted to go that route.

Who says the Catalyst destroyed the Leviathan of Dis? Nothing indicates how it got to where it got, and everything indicates that it was still in service of the Reapers/Catalyst since you know it indoctrinated people to make the Reapers culling easier in Batarian space. The data mined info about the DLC indicates something far different then the catalyst destroying it because its a prototype.

Nobody said that the Catalyst destroyed it. I said that if the Leviathan was different, yet still fundamentally a Reaper, the Catalyst would be aware of that and wouldn't be interested in it's proto-Reaper status.

They have every reason to clean up after themselves, so others don't become wise to the cycle and defend themselves from the start. Just look at what full knowledge of the reapers, tech, and whatever else was included allowed a cycle's inhabitants to do when you pick the refuse option of the Extended Cut. Just think what would have happened this cycle if all the race's shared everything they knew and took the 3 years of the mass effect games to prepare for war with the Reapers. Heck just the Asari sharing their info would have drastically changed the war against the Reapers and the Crucible likely would have been built and waiting for the reapers. Or what tech the Illusive Man would have had if he found the Derelict reaper years ago and could salvage and learn from it. We could have had a galaxy indoctrinated/controlled by the Illusive Man waiting to fight or serve the Reapers.

That doesn't make any sense. Putting aside the fact that the Citadel was attacked by a Reaper and the Council still didn't acknowledge their existence, we also know the Reapers left at least two hulks floating around at the end of the Prothean's cycle. Clearly they aren't that concerned about people stumbling across their existence without any context.

[Anjerith]

That doesn't make any sense. Putting aside the fact that the Citadel was attacked by a Reaper and the Council still didn't acknowledge their existence, we also know the Reapers left at least two hulks floating around at the end of the Prothean's cycle. Clearly they aren't that concerned about people stumbling across their existence without any context.

The Council believed that Sovereign was a non-living ship that Saren used as a Flagship. While the PLAYER knows otherwise, the characters in the Mass Effect universe, or any fictional world, are limited by only the things they see and encounter themselves. Remember that the Citadel doesn't float around in the Normandy.

[Beavis]

The Council believed that Sovereign was a non-living ship that Saren used as a Flagship. While the PLAYER knows otherwise, the characters in the Mass Effect universe, or any fictional world, are limited by only the things they see and encounter themselves. Remember that the Citadel doesn't float around in the Normandy.

That's totally true, and kind of my point. The mere presence of a Reaper doesn't cause people to jump to the conclusion that a race of super beings in starship form are going to wipe out all advanced life in the galaxy. An active Reaper attacks the center of galactic government, the only person who has had contact with the enemy's forces says it's a Reaper, and nobody believes it's a Reaper. Why should the Reapers bother cleaning up after themselves if their husks can still indoctrinate and the hand full of people who know the truth are written off as crackpots?

[Serotonine09]

They could also be a pretty damn impressive army if and when life from another galaxy decides to come say hello.

My thoughts exactly. I really like the idea of a united galaxy harnessing the accumulated knowledge of several hundred civilizations. That would actually be a hell of a story to write. The possibilities, endless......

But they denied me the Happy Ending that I so badly craved, call me a romanticist ^^

[Adam Jensen]

Oh jesus christ, I picked the green beam and before the end the room got really fucking dusty for some reason.

---------- Post added 2012-06-27 at 06:06 PM ----------

My thoughts exactly. I really like the idea of a united galaxy harnessing the accumulated knowledge of several hundred civilizations. That would actually be a hell of a story to write. The possibilities, endless......

But they denied me the Happy Ending that I so badly craved, call me a romanticist ^^

I dunno, aside from Shepard's death, I felt that Green Beam was the happy ending. It was sad that Shepard died, but the galaxy enters a sort of golden age.

the dust in my room got really bad when they put up Shepard's placard on the memorial wall. Funny, that. Damn dust.

[Nerraw]

And, the human Reaper didn't seem to be a space ship at all.

There's a reason for that.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/a...ostPageIndex=1

Third question down.

[Adam Jensen]

There's a reason for that.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/a...ostPageIndex=1

Third question down.

I thought it was just that the human reaper wasn't finished. I had assumed that had he been finished, he'd look like any other reaper, but with a human face and a few other human-esque qualities.

[Nerraw]

I thought it was just that the human reaper wasn't finished. I had assumed that had he been finished, he'd look like any other reaper, but with a human face and a few other human-esque qualities.

Yeah, it's something that should somehow have been in the game. Not sure how, but something like "Perhaps this is why this and this is like that" and "Sounds reasonable" would probably have cut it.

---------- Post added 2012-06-28 at 12:26 AM ----------

The possibilities, endless......

Speaking of endless possibilities, when Shepard mentioned that the first thing I thought of was the tech singularity everyone have been discussing everywhere for the past little while.