1. #10001
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    If you pick Red, destroy, synthetic life has no choice to live. They are all wiped out.
    If you pick Green, synthesis, people have no choice in having their DNA rewritten.
    If you pick Control, people have no choice but to accept the Reapers.

    Any action Shepard does impacts the entire Galaxy. If the entire Galaxy wants to become a new type of life or wants to have the Reapers controlled it doesn't matter if Shepard wants to Destroy them (and all synthetic life). Only Shepard has a say in the matter
    In Red, synthetics may not have a choice but some people (organics) in the galaxy won't have the terrible decision foisted upon them like they would if they had synthesis.
    That's why green is the problem. Neither synthetics or organics have a choice at all. The galaxy as a whole is subject to an extremely totalitarian whim.
    If you pick control, nobody has to accept the reapers they can keep fighting against them as they have done before. The choice still exists in Control.

    It's also worthwhile noting that in a merger between both organics and synthetics I'm not sure how much free will either would have left. In Red, Sheps decision could and would be subject to review by historians because the species more or less remain free and whole. In control the same thing applies. In synthesis it's not clear how much of the individual identities of either synthetics or organics remain and it's not clear if "freewill" will remain exactly that. I would suggest to you that in Synthesis Sheps decision will not be subject to any review as it would in the other two as you would normally do in free and democratic societies. That's really the key about synthesis. It changes how people are without their consensus. Control doesn't do that and Red only kills organics. It doesn't fundamentally alter them and make them different people.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-08-05 at 01:00 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  2. #10002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazuun View Post
    ...then we both pick the same ending (for example left side) and we both have the same ending - that's most brilliant part of this game.
    We both have the same Climax to the story, but the ending is still different. Even though we both pick Red (Destroy) you could have Liara alive and I might not. That changes the epilogue and "ending". It just isn't shown by bioware because not everything needs to be shown for it to be a part of the story.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-05 at 08:55 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Gravath View Post
    I am simply arguing that you do not make the story, its Biowares story and we are simply given a few more tools than usually.
    Tools that allow us to change the story and create different stories based on the choices we make.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-05 at 08:57 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    In Red, synthetics may not have a choice but some people (organics) in the galaxy won't have the terrible decision foisted upon them like they would if they had synthesis.
    That's why green is the problem. Neither synthetics or organics have a choice at all. The galaxy as a whole is subject to an extremely totalitarian whim.
    If you pick control, nobody has to accept the reapers they can keep fighting against them as they have done before. The choice still exists in Control.
    So it is only evil if every single being in existence has it forced upon them? Why does it have to be everyone in order for it to be evil? Every option is subject to an extremely totalitarian whim because every option impacts the entire Galaxy based on the whim of Commander Shepard.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  3. #10003
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Again in a very real sense your deicisons do help SHAPE your UNIQUE story. I have very little concern about what other millions have seen. My shepard is unique to me and my circle.
    About as unique as wearing a dress to church.
    May only be one in your circle, but fuckloads of other people do it.
    Nothing unique about something that infact, is not, unique.

    Maybe if you wore a borat bikini, a tophat and a sparkling diamond cane with a goldwatch chained to your beard to church i would call it unique.

  4. #10004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravath View Post
    About as unique as wearing a dress to church.
    May only be one in your circle, but fuckloads of other people do it.
    Nothing unique about something that infact, is not, unique.

    Maybe if you wore a borat bikini, a tophat and a sparkling diamond cane with a goldwatch chained to your beard to church i would call it unique.
    If you are the only girl in the church wearing the dress then yea it's unique. If you go on youtube and see every church has a girl with that dress then it's not unique. That is however entirely up to you.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-05 at 01:05 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post

    So it is only evil if every single being in existence has it forced upon them? Why does it have to be everyone in order for it to be evil? Every option is subject to an extremely totalitarian whim because every option impacts the entire Galaxy based on the whim of Commander Shepard.
    No. The other options are arbitrary but not totalitarian in the same sense that synthesis is. Synthesis is LITERALLY changing people without their will. It is absolute totalitarianism because it brooks no rebuttal from anyone else in the galaxy organic or synthetic. Fundamentally altering both the human and synthetic conditions without any consent. Control doesn't do this and red only KILLS synthetics it doesn't alter them like that.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  5. #10005
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    If you are the only girl in the church wearing the dress then yea it's unique. If you go on youtube and see every church has a girl with that dress then it's not unique. That is however entirely up to you.
    Closing your eyes to the world doesnt make you any more unique.

  6. #10006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Fundamentally altering both the human and synthetic conditions without any consent.
    But they all do this, and that is why they are all inherently evil. Killing all synthetics is altering their condition without consent. And the death/destruction of all AI's, cyborgs, and everything else that falls into "synthetic" will also impact organic life. No more artificial limbs, no more advanced computer systems. Without the aid of the geth it will take the Quarians decades if not centuries to adapt to planet bound life. The geth make it possible in years. Even Shepard is supposed to die with the Red option but doesn't for some reason.

    You are forcing everyone in the Galaxy to adopt a no synthetic view and life style even if they don't want to. Every one of the choices forces the entire Galaxy to live with the choice that Shepard made. Why is it only evil when a new DNA is created but not evil when everyone else is forced into something against their will?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  7. #10007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravath View Post
    Closing your eyes to the world doesnt make you any more unique.
    I'm not closing my eyes to the world. People are not robots. I can recognize that other people may have a similar story but not care and still feel mine is entirely unique because I've never actually gone out and watched other people play the game. It's called being immersed. It used to happen alot in games. Not so much anymore.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-05 at 01:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    But they all do this, and that is why they are all inherently evil. Killing all synthetics is altering their condition without consent. And the death/destruction of all AI's, cyborgs, and everything else that falls into "synthetic" will also impact organic life. No more artificial limbs, no more advanced computer systems. Without the aid of the geth it will take the Quarians decades if not centuries to adapt to planet bound life. The geth make it possible in years. Even Shepard is supposed to die with the Red option but doesn't for some reason.

    You are forcing everyone in the Galaxy to adopt a no synthetic view and life style even if they don't want to. Every one of the choices forces the entire Galaxy to live with the choice that Shepard made. Why is it only evil when a new DNA is created but not evil when everyone else is forced into something against their will?
    No they don't or at least not to the same degree that occurs in Synthesis. In Synthesis a new life is created by sacrificing the old ones. In Synthesis the very core and essence of the organic and synthetic condition is disposed of again without consent. Being Human simply ceases to have any meaning. As does being a robot.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  8. #10008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    No they don't or at least not to the same degree that occurs in Synthesis. In Synthesis a new life is created by sacrificing the old ones. In Synthesis the very core and essence of the organic and synthetic condition is disposed of again without consent. Being Human simply ceases to have any meaning. As does being a robot.
    But why isn't genocide evil? Why is only "rewriting DNA of all life forms" evil?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  9. #10009
    [QUOTE=Atrahasis;17850649]I'm not closing my eyes to the world. People are not robots. I can recognize that other people may have a similar story but not care and still feel mine is entirely unique because I've never actually gone out and watched other people play the game. It's called being immersed. It used to happen alot in games. Not so much anymore.[COLOR="red"]

    Sorry to inform you mate, but no matter how you feel the fact is, hundreds of people have picked the same options given to us by Bioware, you’re story it’s far away from being unique.

    Also you are not “creating” anything, you are choosing, it’s quite different. Take those silly interactive books for example, those that allow you to pick one out of a couple of choices, sending you to X or Y page depending on it… as Gravath said, in the end you are only picking with page you want to read, you’re not “creating” anything, the book is already there.

  10. #10010
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    By genocide I presume you mean destroy? Well in that case you can do a cost benefit analysis and make the case that destroying the reapers is the best option. You can also make another case, very similar to what the guy from sun micro systems said about nano technology. The potential for sheer and utter disaster is so great that anything related to those technologies should be willfully given up and research into them should stop. If you accept that argument then control even if it is genocide is a reasonable thing to consider. I mean you can also argue that synthetics aren't people. I think the developers wan't you to come to a decision on your own about that. So you could pick destroy and not bat an eye lash.

    In any event Synthesis is the denial of even death. It is a nightmare. I mean if your dead you can at least have the peace of the grave. In Synthesis you don't get that. You are simply no longer man or machine and your say doesn't matter. I'm presupposing alot about the state they exist in after a Synthesis but their are people, a great many I would wager who would be horrified by what they had become.[

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-05 at 04:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Oni View Post

    Sorry to inform you mate, but no matter how you feel the fact is, hundreds of people have picked the same options given to us by Bioware, you’re story it’s far away from being unique.

    Also you are not “creating” anything, you are choosing, it’s quite different. Take those silly interactive books for example, those that allow you to pick one out of a couple of choices, sending you to X or Y page depending on it… as Gravath said, in the end you are only picking with page you want to read, you’re not “creating” anything, the book is already there.
    In choice you create something unique. If you don't feel that way because the internet has told you so well then your loss. If other people you don't know and have never witnessed doing the same thing as you removes the uniqueness then I feel extremely bad for whatever significant other you choose to marry or mate with. Sorry to inform you mate but people across the world are having sex at this very moment. That does not rob the uniquness of what I have with my wife nor does it rob the uniqueness of what I felt when I chose and built my sheps story.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-08-05 at 04:16 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  11. #10011
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    In choice you create something unique.
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    having sex is unique
    -Snip- Please refrain from using memes (picture or video) in lieu of replies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dictionary
    1. to cause to come into being, as something unique that would not naturally evolve or that is not made by ordinary processes.
    2. to evolve from one's own thought or imagination, as a work of art or an invention.
    3. Theater . to perform (a role) for the first time or in the first production of a play.
    4. to make by investing with new rank or by designating; constitute; appoint: to create a peer.
    5. to be the cause or occasion of; give rise to: The announcement created confusion.
    As a closing statement, i will explain that "to be the cause or occasion of" is not parallel with choosing an option given to you by the creators who created the option and the following consequenses.
    Last edited by Sj; 2012-08-05 at 04:59 PM.

  12. #10012
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    Scrubs was good. I liked that show.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  13. #10013
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post

    [/COLOR]

    In choice you create something unique. If you don't feel that way because the internet has told you so well then your loss. If other people you don't know and have never witnessed doing the same thing as you removes the uniqueness then I feel extremely bad for whatever significant other you choose to marry or mate with. Sorry to inform you mate but people across the world are having sex at this very moment. That does not rob the uniquness of what I have with my wife nor does it rob the uniqueness of what I felt when I chose and built my sheps story.
    You don't create & it's not unique. I don't "feel" it, it's simply the way it is.
    Denying and trying to convince others won't change it, no matter how many silly comparisons you come up with


    Edited: In a really durping way...

    IMA GO TO A ICECREAM SHOP! Duhhh!!!

    OMGAWD LEMON OR STRAWBERRY?!!? WITH ONE SHALL I PICK?!?!

    STRAWBERRY!!!!

    /tophat Oh damn, I created strawberry flavor, genius.
    Last edited by Myobi; 2012-08-05 at 04:35 PM.

  14. #10014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oni View Post
    You don't create & it's not unique. I don't "feel" it, it's simply the way it is.
    Denying and trying to convince others won't change it, no matter how many silly comparisons you come up with


    Edited: In a really durping way...

    IMA GO TO A ICECREAM SHOP! Duhhh!!!

    OMGAWD LEMON OR STRAWBERRY?!!? WITH ONE SHALL I PICK?!?!

    STRAWBERRY!!!!

    /tophat Oh damn, I created strawberry flavor, genius.
    I'm not trying to convince any one of anything. You and others are trying to convince me that I shouldn't feel my choices in the game make my shep unique. It's fine if you feel that way. Romanticism has been dead for awhile I guess and only saps like me still believe in such things.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-05 at 04:40 PM ----------

    -snip- Don't quote memes, please.


    As a closing statement, i will explain that "to be the cause or occasion of" is not parallel with choosing an option given to you by the creators who created the option and the following consequenses.[/QUOTE]

    I don't recall saying having sex in general in unique. What I tried to get across was that the sex I was having with my wife was unique just as my choices mass effect made the story in my game unique regardless of what anyone else has done.
    Last edited by Sj; 2012-08-05 at 05:01 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  15. #10015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Well in that case you can do a cost benefit analysis and make the case that destroying the reapers is the best option.
    So why can't you do a cost benefit analysis and make the case that synthesis is the best option thus making it not evil? You keep dodging the question. Synthetics in this case are sentient life forms. No different then a Turian, Krogan, Human, Asari etc. So why is it only "evil" to create a new form of life but not evil to destroy every synthetic life in the galaxy?

    If Green is inherently evil then Genocide is inherently evil. Which means Red (Genocide of synthetics) and Yellow (Genocide of everyone in that cycle) is just as inherently evil.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  16. #10016
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    I'm not trying to convince any one of anything. You and others are trying to convince me that I shouldn't feel my choices in the game make my shep unique. It's fine if you feel that way. Romanticism has been dead for awhile I guess and only saps like me still believe in such things.
    Oh don't get me wrong, I have a fairly short amount of fucks to give, I’m not wasting them around with everything that moves, as far as I care you can even believe in the tooth fairy, won’t change the fact that there is no freaking fairy at all, no matter what you or other chose to believe in.

  17. #10017
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oni View Post
    /tophat Oh damn, I created strawberry flavor, genius.
    You clearly don't understand what is being said. Choosing A or B isn't creating anything. Choosing A or B then C or D then E or F etc is creating a story. Each path is a different choice but when combined with everything else you created the story. You create the story you experience in Mass Effect through the choices you make.

    You aren't creating Strawberry by picking Strawberry. But you are creating your personal story by picking Strawberry. Just as keeping Legion versus sending him to Cerberus creates part of the Story for you. Different choices that can have a big impact on how the rest of your story unfolds. All the choices you make is creating a story that is personal to you.

    It doesn't have to be unique to be creation. It just has to be something that doesn't exist unless you make it exist. And things in ME don't happen unless you choose them. Unless of course you go with default Imports in which case you are playing the default Story and not a player created story.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  18. #10018
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So why can't you do a cost benefit analysis and make the case that synthesis is the best option thus making it not evil? You keep dodging the question. Synthetics in this case are sentient life forms. No different then a Turian, Krogan, Human, Asari etc. So why is it only "evil" to create a new form of life but not evil to destroy every synthetic life in the galaxy?

    If Green is inherently evil then Genocide is inherently evil. Which means Red (Genocide of synthetics) and Yellow (Genocide of everyone in that cycle) is just as inherently evil.
    Because history will still be around to judge shepards actions and we can trust that history and historians will be alot more impartial if organics are not merged with robots.

    I should say I think genocide is evil as well I guess but synthesis is far worse. I said the good ending was control after all.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  19. #10019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravath View Post
    As a closing statement, i will explain that "to be the cause or occasion of" is not parallel with choosing an option given to you by the creators who created the option and the following consequenses.
    By choosing an option you have become the creator of the story you see. You created a story unique to your choices. I can create an outfit with only the stuff in my closet. I didn't create make the clothes my self but I can still create that outfit.

    You didn't write the Story but you created the story you played through the choices you made. This is made possible through the excessive amount of Decision Tree's Mass Effect has. There is a reason why the Extended Cut Decision Tree was several white boards and that was for something that ending all the Decisions.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  20. #10020
    Its no fun debating when you only reuse the same thing over and over again.
    It feels like im debating with a creationist claiming he created his ice-cream because God let him a role in the "magical tale of a multi-flavoured ice-cream" and that somehow makes him the creator over the ice-cream company that CREATED the ice-creams existance and put forth the flavour choices.


    Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong you're wrong wrong you are wrong wrong~


    You cant seem to grasp anything that doesnt confirm to your own truth, much like religious fanatics.

    Fuck it, im leaving before i call anyone a selfconceited arrogant asshole.
    Last edited by Gravath; 2012-08-05 at 05:14 PM.

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