[Megathread] Mass Effect 3

[Gravath]

We dont create our own story because bioware have already created the story, they have already created the options and you just branch off at the intersections that seperate them.
If you cant put in something that bioware didnt already, then you havent created the story.

I think synthesis is inherently evil. Even if you go into that with the best of intentions your effectively telling the whole galaxy you will bend to my will and theirs nothing you can do about it.

Its not harmful, so i wouldnt consider it evil.

[Glorious Leader]

it's better to say bioware has created the frame work and you have filled it in with the details. You have both had a hand in shaping the story.

[Gravath]

it's better to say bioware has created the frame work and you have filled it in with the details. You have both had a hand in shaping the story.

No.
They overfilled the slots with bars and you have to pick one to fit the slot so it can close and operate properly.

[Glorious Leader]

but you still have to pick one and that choice will determine how the outcome is arrived at. A different way to reach a similar ending. A different road shows a different picture even if you are all going to the same cabin. Two roads diverged in a yellow wood. Whichever one Robert Frost takes, it doesn't matter because he has many miles to go HOWEVER along the way it will be different. So yes you do have some choice and determination in the story. you both have a hand in shaping the game.

[Gravath]

You have choice as to what version of the story to see.
But you do not create jack shit and you do NOT have a hand in shaping the game, only your own experience.
Its more akin to deciding between drinking vodka or smoking marijuana during gameplay.

[rhorle]

I think synthesis is inherently evil. Even if you go into that with the best of intentions your effectively telling the whole galaxy you will bend to my will and theirs nothing you can do about it.

But all options do that. All Options balance the fate of the galaxy in the Will/Whims of Commander Shepard and there is nothing that anyone can do about it.

[Glorious Leader]

or doing both. In the end though your still shaping the adventure. Your universe is unique to you and it's written by your decisions. Yes Bioware did the physical act of writing it into the game but you still pick which one you want and it still becomes "yours" because you picked. Shepard is your shepard and a product of your decisions within the framework provided by the developers. You can say the framework is to narrow and limited and that's a fine argument. You cannot say your decisions don't have an impact in how the story takes shape.

---------- Post added 2012-08-05 at 12:44 PM ----------

But all options do that. All Options balance the fate of the galaxy in the Will/Whims of Commander Shepard and there is nothing that anyone can do about it.

No they don't. Like lets say you chose renegade control well then people can fight back against Repear Shepard. They might lose but they still have that option. Or let's say you shot the kid, well people can and will still choose the fight the reapers. In Synthesis their is no choice. You are simply merged.

[rhorle]

If you cant put in something that bioware didnt already, then you havent created the story.

My Shepard is something that bioware didn't put into the game because the Shepard they picked looks nothing like mine. Bioware gives you the tools to create your own story within their story. If you save everyone in ME2's final mission and I kill everyone off I have created a different story then you did for your ME2 play through.

We both import our games into ME3 and we both have a completely different story that we can further influence and change with the options in ME3. Just because I am not adding my own art, textures, scripts, and what ever else doesn't mean I am not creating a story. Bioware provides the Lego blocks and the players create different versions of the same lego set.

---------- Post added 2012-08-05 at 08:47 AM ----------

You have choice as to what version of the story to see.
But you do not create jack shit and you do NOT have a hand in shaping the game, only your own experience.
Its more akin to deciding between drinking vodka or smoking marijuana during gameplay.

I don't shape the game? Options I make in ME 2 or ME1 drastically change what options I have available in ME3. That is shaping the game and that is creating a different story then the one you've experienced if you've made different choices.

[Gravath]

You cannot say your decisions don't have an impact in how the story takes shape.

I havent argued against that.
I am simply arguing that you do not make the story, its Biowares story and we are simply given a few more tools than usually.

And there is nothing unique about the story you see.
Millions of that exact version have been seen by others.

If you want to make your own story, write one. Hell, you might even do a better one.
But dont play someone else's and think its yours.

[Kazuun]

My Shepard is something that bioware didn't put into the game because the Shepard they picked looks nothing like mine. Bioware gives you the tools to create your own story within their story. If you save everyone in ME2's final mission and I kill everyone off I have created a different story then you did for your ME2 play through.

We both import our games into ME3 and we both have a completely different story that we can further influence and change with the options in ME3.

...then we both pick the same ending (for example left side) and we both have the same ending - that's most brilliant part of this game.

[Glorious Leader]

I havent argued against that.
I am simply arguing that you do not make the story, its Biowares story and we are simply given a few more tools than usually.

And there is nothing unique about the story you see.
Millions of that exact version have been seen by others.

If you want to make your own story, write one. Hell, you might even do better.
But dont play someone else's and think its yours.

Again in a very real sense your deicisons do help SHAPE your UNIQUE story. I have very little concern about what other millions have seen. My shepard is unique to me and my circle.

I've had ideas and taken notes. Still need more to flush out. It's funny but when you said that I immediately thought of:

[rhorle]

No they don't. Like lets say you chose renegade control well then people can fight back against Repear Shepard. They might lose but they still have that option. Or let's say you shot the kid, well people can and will still choose the fight the reapers. In Synthesis their is no choice. You are simply merged.

If you pick Red, destroy, synthetic life has no choice to live. They are all wiped out.
If you pick Green, synthesis, people have no choice in having their DNA rewritten.
If you pick Control, people have no choice but to accept the Reapers.

Any action Shepard does impacts the entire Galaxy. If the entire Galaxy wants to become a new type of life or wants to have the Reapers controlled it doesn't matter if Shepard wants to Destroy them (and all synthetic life). Only Shepard has a say in the matter

[Glorious Leader]

If you pick Red, destroy, synthetic life has no choice to live. They are all wiped out.
If you pick Green, synthesis, people have no choice in having their DNA rewritten.
If you pick Control, people have no choice but to accept the Reapers.

Any action Shepard does impacts the entire Galaxy. If the entire Galaxy wants to become a new type of life or wants to have the Reapers controlled it doesn't matter if Shepard wants to Destroy them (and all synthetic life). Only Shepard has a say in the matter

In Red, synthetics may not have a choice but some people (organics) in the galaxy won't have the terrible decision foisted upon them like they would if they had synthesis.
That's why green is the problem. Neither synthetics or organics have a choice at all. The galaxy as a whole is subject to an extremely totalitarian whim.
If you pick control, nobody has to accept the reapers they can keep fighting against them as they have done before. The choice still exists in Control.

It's also worthwhile noting that in a merger between both organics and synthetics I'm not sure how much free will either would have left. In Red, Sheps decision could and would be subject to review by historians because the species more or less remain free and whole. In control the same thing applies. In synthesis it's not clear how much of the individual identities of either synthetics or organics remain and it's not clear if "freewill" will remain exactly that. I would suggest to you that in Synthesis Sheps decision will not be subject to any review as it would in the other two as you would normally do in free and democratic societies. That's really the key about synthesis. It changes how people are without their consensus. Control doesn't do that and Red only kills organics. It doesn't fundamentally alter them and make them different people.

[rhorle]

...then we both pick the same ending (for example left side) and we both have the same ending - that's most brilliant part of this game.

We both have the same Climax to the story, but the ending is still different. Even though we both pick Red (Destroy) you could have Liara alive and I might not. That changes the epilogue and "ending". It just isn't shown by bioware because not everything needs to be shown for it to be a part of the story.

---------- Post added 2012-08-05 at 08:55 AM ----------

I am simply arguing that you do not make the story, its Biowares story and we are simply given a few more tools than usually.

Tools that allow us to change the story and create different stories based on the choices we make.

---------- Post added 2012-08-05 at 08:57 AM ----------

In Red, synthetics may not have a choice but some people (organics) in the galaxy won't have the terrible decision foisted upon them like they would if they had synthesis.
That's why green is the problem. Neither synthetics or organics have a choice at all. The galaxy as a whole is subject to an extremely totalitarian whim.
If you pick control, nobody has to accept the reapers they can keep fighting against them as they have done before. The choice still exists in Control.

So it is only evil if every single being in existence has it forced upon them? Why does it have to be everyone in order for it to be evil? Every option is subject to an extremely totalitarian whim because every option impacts the entire Galaxy based on the whim of Commander Shepard.

[Gravath]

Again in a very real sense your deicisons do help SHAPE your UNIQUE story. I have very little concern about what other millions have seen. My shepard is unique to me and my circle.

About as unique as wearing a dress to church.
May only be one in your circle, but fuckloads of other people do it.
Nothing unique about something that infact, is not, unique.

Maybe if you wore a borat bikini, a tophat and a sparkling diamond cane with a goldwatch chained to your beard to church i would call it unique.

[Glorious Leader]

About as unique as wearing a dress to church.
May only be one in your circle, but fuckloads of other people do it.
Nothing unique about something that infact, is not, unique.

Maybe if you wore a borat bikini, a tophat and a sparkling diamond cane with a goldwatch chained to your beard to church i would call it unique.

If you are the only girl in the church wearing the dress then yea it's unique. If you go on youtube and see every church has a girl with that dress then it's not unique. That is however entirely up to you.

---------- Post added 2012-08-05 at 01:05 PM ----------

So it is only evil if every single being in existence has it forced upon them? Why does it have to be everyone in order for it to be evil? Every option is subject to an extremely totalitarian whim because every option impacts the entire Galaxy based on the whim of Commander Shepard.

No. The other options are arbitrary but not totalitarian in the same sense that synthesis is. Synthesis is LITERALLY changing people without their will. It is absolute totalitarianism because it brooks no rebuttal from anyone else in the galaxy organic or synthetic. Fundamentally altering both the human and synthetic conditions without any consent. Control doesn't do this and red only KILLS synthetics it doesn't alter them like that.

[Gravath]

If you are the only girl in the church wearing the dress then yea it's unique. If you go on youtube and see every church has a girl with that dress then it's not unique. That is however entirely up to you.

Closing your eyes to the world doesnt make you any more unique.

[rhorle]

Fundamentally altering both the human and synthetic conditions without any consent.

But they all do this, and that is why they are all inherently evil. Killing all synthetics is altering their condition without consent. And the death/destruction of all AI's, cyborgs, and everything else that falls into "synthetic" will also impact organic life. No more artificial limbs, no more advanced computer systems. Without the aid of the geth it will take the Quarians decades if not centuries to adapt to planet bound life. The geth make it possible in years. Even Shepard is supposed to die with the Red option but doesn't for some reason.

You are forcing everyone in the Galaxy to adopt a no synthetic view and life style even if they don't want to. Every one of the choices forces the entire Galaxy to live with the choice that Shepard made. Why is it only evil when a new DNA is created but not evil when everyone else is forced into something against their will?

[Glorious Leader]

Closing your eyes to the world doesnt make you any more unique.

I'm not closing my eyes to the world. People are not robots. I can recognize that other people may have a similar story but not care and still feel mine is entirely unique because I've never actually gone out and watched other people play the game. It's called being immersed. It used to happen alot in games. Not so much anymore.

---------- Post added 2012-08-05 at 01:47 PM ----------

But they all do this, and that is why they are all inherently evil. Killing all synthetics is altering their condition without consent. And the death/destruction of all AI's, cyborgs, and everything else that falls into "synthetic" will also impact organic life. No more artificial limbs, no more advanced computer systems. Without the aid of the geth it will take the Quarians decades if not centuries to adapt to planet bound life. The geth make it possible in years. Even Shepard is supposed to die with the Red option but doesn't for some reason.

You are forcing everyone in the Galaxy to adopt a no synthetic view and life style even if they don't want to. Every one of the choices forces the entire Galaxy to live with the choice that Shepard made. Why is it only evil when a new DNA is created but not evil when everyone else is forced into something against their will?

No they don't or at least not to the same degree that occurs in Synthesis. In Synthesis a new life is created by sacrificing the old ones. In Synthesis the very core and essence of the organic and synthetic condition is disposed of again without consent. Being Human simply ceases to have any meaning. As does being a robot.

[rhorle]

No they don't or at least not to the same degree that occurs in Synthesis. In Synthesis a new life is created by sacrificing the old ones. In Synthesis the very core and essence of the organic and synthetic condition is disposed of again without consent. Being Human simply ceases to have any meaning. As does being a robot.

But why isn't genocide evil? Why is only "rewriting DNA of all life forms" evil?