1. #10021
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    You clearly don't understand what is being said. Choosing A or B isn't creating anything. Choosing A or B then C or D then E or F etc is creating a story. Each path is a different choice but when combined with everything else you created the story. You create the story you experience in Mass Effect through the choices you make.

    You aren't creating Strawberry by picking Strawberry. But you are creating your personal story by picking Strawberry. Just as keeping Legion versus sending him to Cerberus creates part of the Story for you. Different choices that can have a big impact on how the rest of your story unfolds. All the choices you make is creating a story that is personal to you.

    It doesn't have to be unique to be creation. It just has to be something that doesn't exist unless you make it exist. And things in ME don't happen unless you choose them. Unless of course you go with default Imports in which case you are playing the default Story and not a player created story.
    Well, you “clearly” don’t understand that “tutti frutti” was already created too mate.

  2. #10022
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oni View Post
    Well, you “clearly” don’t understand that “tutti frutti” was already created too mate.
    Does a painter create the painting? Did he create the canvas, weaving it himself? Did he create the pigments and other ingredients used to make the paint? Did he create the horse that supplied hair to the brush?

    Bioware gave you the parts but had you assemble the Story. You created the Story from the parts provided. You can still create things without having created the parts or things you use. Otherwise nothing could ever be created since everyone uses parts already in existence.

    However the word Create clearly has a meaning which suggests that you don't need to make the parts yourself in order to create something out of those parts.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  3. #10023
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravath View Post
    Its no fun debating when you only reuse the same thing over and over again.
    It feels like im debating with a creationist claiming he created his ice-cream because God let him a role in the "magical tale of a multi-flavoured ice-cream" and that somehow makes him the creator over the ice-cream company that CREATED the ice-creams existance and put forth the flavour choices.


    Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong you're wrong wrong you are wrong wrong~


    You cant seem to grasp anything that doesnt confirm to your own truth, much like religious fanatics.

    Fuck it, im leaving before i call anyone a selfconceited arrogant asshole.
    Oh i'm sorry I failed to provide you with any amusement. Would you like if I put on my jesters cap and pranced about madly for you?

    I think I made a very clear case and your welcome to hold your opinion about it. Nowhere did I say that I was right and you were wrong, merely that I felt my experience in mass effect was unique because of the choices I made in shaping it and because I'm one of the few remaining people who isn't concerned with what everyone else is doing. Is that foolish romanticism on my part? Absolutely. But that's okay. I'm allowed to be a foolish romantic when I'm playing mass effect. The wife gave me permission to be a child again when I played video games Now tf that's not fun for you and it makes you feel like your debating a creationist well that's just to bad. What your effectively saying is I can't make you change your opinion and I can't really dispute that you feel that way so this isn't fun. You must be a christian.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-08-05 at 05:35 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  4. #10024
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Bioware gave you the parts but had you assemble the Story. You created the Story from the parts provided. You can still create things without having created the parts or things you use. Otherwise nothing could ever be created since everyone uses parts already in existence.
    No, you were not given a set of characters, locations, events, monsters and what the fuck not to assemble in the way you wished.
    You were playing a story and was given a choice whether or not to kill the thing infront of you.
    The effects on the story is minimal with the only changes being in dialogues and graphical in what characters are in the cutscenes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Oh i'm sorry I failed to provide you with any amusement. Would you like if I put on my jesters cap and pranced about madly for you?

    I think I made a very clear case and your welcome to hold your opinion about it. Nowhere did I say that I was right and you were wrong, merely that I felt my experience in mass effect was unique because of the choices I made in shaping it and because I'm one of the few remaining people who isn't concerned with what everyone else is doing. Is that foolish romanticism on my part? Absolutely. But that's okay. I'm allowed to be a foolish romantic when I'm playing mass effect. The wife gave me permission to be a child again when I played video games Now tf that's not fun for you and it makes you feel like your debating a creationist well that's just to bad. What your effectively saying is I can't make you change your opinion and I can't really dispute that you feel that way so this isn't fun. You must be a christian.
    Couple of things here.
    Yes, you may dance for me.

    Second,
    You argued that you created the story. I argued you didnt. You claim that because you went the left path instead of the right path, you made the car. Over and over again.

    And lastly, you point out christians whereas i said creationists and religious fanatics. Am i going to assume you are a muslim?
    Last edited by Gravath; 2012-08-05 at 05:48 PM.

  5. #10025
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravath View Post
    No, you were not given a set of characters, locations, events, monsters and what the fuck not to assemble in the way you wished.
    You were playing a story and was given a choice whether or not to kill the thing infront of you.
    The effects on the story is minimal with the only changes being in dialogues and graphical in what characters are in the cutscenes.



    Couple of things here.
    Yes, you may dance for me.

    Second,
    You argued that you created the story. I argued you didnt. You claim that because you went the left path instead of the right path, you made the car. Over and over again.

    And lastly, you point out christians whereas i said creationists and religious fanatics. Am i going to assume you are a muslim?
    Primarily because Christians seem to be the loudest on this continent with respect to creationism. That was an over reach on my part though.

    That's exactly what I claimed and because I chose left or right, just as I chose to have sex with my wife, or use a certain kind of chocolate when making my cheese cake that it made those things unique and thusly that you were in part responsible for shaping it. You are the architect even though the chocolate is already provided for you and even though lots of people make cheese cake.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-08-05 at 06:05 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  6. #10026
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    @Rhorle

    Do you call the stories that you get in choose your own adventure books to be stories that you've created?

  7. #10027
    Ok Rhorle, thanks you then for creating such a great story, I enjoyed it quite a lot.

  8. #10028
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oni View Post
    Ok Rhorle, thanks you then for creating such a great story, I enjoyed it quite a lot.
    did you gain access to his save file or something?
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  9. #10029
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    Anyone wanna play some multiplayer? im ripping waves apart with my lvl 2 n7 typhon!
    Last edited by RoboA; 2012-08-05 at 07:14 PM.
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  10. #10030
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravath View Post
    No, you were not given a set of characters, locations, events, monsters and what the fuck not to assemble in the way you wished.
    You were playing a story and was given a choice whether or not to kill the thing infront of you.
    The effects on the story is minimal with the only changes being in dialogues and graphical in what characters are in the cutscenes.
    The choices are the parts. Each choice you make is another part being assembled into your story. You get to pick how your story unfolds by what choice you make. You create the story. With out input from you nothing happens.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-05 at 03:04 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    @Rhorle

    Do you call the stories that you get in choose your own adventure books to be stories that you've created?
    Yes. Because without me making those choices the story would not exist in that specific manner. When you cook a recipe do you create it? Or did someone else create that dish? Choose your own Adventure books and games require you to create the story from the ingredients given to you. You don't pick what Ingredients you have or always get to pick the order you add the ingredients but you are still creating something.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-05 at 03:07 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Oni View Post
    Ok Rhorle, thanks you then for creating such a great story, I enjoyed it quite a lot.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsdFbkN4ppA is a story someone created from the parts given. I bet your play through was a lot different then that. How can the two play through be different if you did not create the story from the parts Bioware gave you?

    Since you are fond of Ice cream. When you picked Strawberry and Tuti Fruti for your cone did you create that cone? Did you have to make any choices in order to get that specific cone? Or does everyone who walks into that shop get the same exact cone?
    Last edited by rhorle; 2012-08-05 at 07:09 PM.
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  11. #10031
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    Finally managed to finish playing through it again with the extended cut and I have to say I'm kind of happy with the ending. I chose control and almost everything got answered. Although one thing did bother me but that's just nitpicking I guess.. I mean I survived as a reaper right? So why be all brooding and mysterious and distant? If I was Shepard (or even if she was like I played her), I wouldn't have just disappeared into the sunset to be a guardian. Reapers could talk just fine, so I would have just painted eyelashes and lips on my dashing new reaper body, got a gigantic wig and "hang out with the gang" on Earth later.
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  12. #10032
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post

    [/COLOR]

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsdFbkN4ppA is a story someone created from the parts given. I bet your play through was a lot different then that. How can the two play through be different if you did not create the story from the parts Bioware gave you?

    Since you are fond of Ice cream. When you picked Strawberry and Tuti Fruti for your cone did you create that cone? Did you have to make any choices in order to get that specific cone? Or does everyone who walks into that shop get the same exact cone?


    Nope, I didn’t create the cone, the ice cream cone factory created it, the same happens with the ice cream. After that I only chosen the flavors I wanted from all of those available in the shop… anyone else can get the same ice-cream, with is one cone with 1 tuti-fruit & 1 strawberry, obviously he one be eating mine in specific, since I prolly already ate it, but that does not make something “unique”, there is shitloads of more from where that came from.

    We are not discussing about Mass Effect anymore, this all turned about the right way of using the word “create”, with I truly believe you are misusing, obviously you don’t agree, we can stay here talking about ice cream for an entire weak, yet I doubt it will change anything.

    If you are believe you have the right to claim that you created any story at all inside ME3 be my guest, I find it a little arrogant and rather believe that I just played Bioware’s story by choosing from the many paths that THEY created for us… that’s about it.

  13. #10033
    Quote Originally Posted by ita View Post
    Finally managed to finish playing through it again with the extended cut and I have to say I'm kind of happy with the ending. I chose control and almost everything got answered. Although one thing did bother me but that's just nitpicking I guess.. I mean I survived as a reaper right? So why be all brooding and mysterious and distant? If I was Shepard (or even if she was like I played her), I wouldn't have just disappeared into the sunset to be a guardian. Reapers could talk just fine, so I would have just painted eyelashes and lips on my dashing new reaper body, got a gigantic wig and "hang out with the gang" on Earth later.
    Technically, Shepard didn't survive. Their memories continued on, but Shepard didn't survive. I'm sure you noticed that the person talking referred to Shepard as "she" or "he" and never as "I" or "me." It was a new being that had the memories of Shepard, but it wasn't Shepard.

  14. #10034
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moontalon View Post
    Technically, Shepard didn't survive. Their memories continued on, but Shepard didn't survive. I'm sure you noticed that the person talking referred to Shepard as "she" or "he" and never as "I" or "me." It was a new being that had the memories of Shepard, but it wasn't Shepard.
    Of course she did, she even said "the woman I was used these words" and continued speaking about how she now understands some things that she didn't before. The Star Child even explained that I wouldn't die if I choose control but would be changed.
    Remember remember the fifth of November
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  15. #10035
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oni View Post
    If you are believe you have the right to claim that you created any story at all inside ME3 be my guest, I find it a little arrogant and rather believe that I just played Bioware’s story by choosing from the many paths that THEY created for us… that’s about it.
    You didn't find it to arrogant when you said you were remaking your shepard in the past. Remaking is the same as recreating. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...6#post17361706 You changed the story you experienced by creating a new one that stayed loyal to Liara.

    By picking the paths you created a story. Just by picking what flavors of ice cream you wanted on the cone you created an ice cream cone. You create the story you want with in the confines of the game. If you want a ugly blonde Shepard that is ditzy and kills off her entire crew you can create that Shepard.

    The question that will put all of this to rest is did you create your own custom Shepard in the Character Creation screen or did you play with the default Shepard. Wait why is it Character Creation is we can't create anything?

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-05 at 05:03 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ita View Post
    Of course she did, she even said "the woman I was used these words" and continued speaking about how she now understands some things that she didn't before. The Star Child even explained that I wouldn't die if I choose control but would be changed.
    Yeah they don't really do that good of a job explaining that part. It seems like nothing would stop Shepard from either creating a synthetic body like EDI's, "assume direct control" of a organic construct, or some sort of catalyst-like holographic projection so he/she could still be with their crew. Would be interesting to see a Reaper with SR-3 branded on the side.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2012-08-05 at 09:04 PM.
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  16. #10036
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Yeah they don't really do that good of a job explaining that part. It seems like nothing would stop Shepard from either creating a synthetic body like EDI's, "assume direct control" of a organic construct, or some sort of catalyst-like holographic projection so he/she could still be with their crew. Would be interesting to see a Reaper with SR-3 branded on the side.
    For some reason, I can never pick any other ending than control:P It seems like the best ending overall. Shepard survives (more or less), Citadel survives, relays get fixed by the reapers, all crew survives including EDI and the geth.

    With destroy, even if Shepard does survive, you still kill off EDI and kind of backstab the geth not to mention making Legions sacrifice mean nothing.

    And synthesis seems equally as bad. Shepard dead, everyone turned into freaks. Sure EDI claims she is now "alive", but she was alive before too. Having some green stuff on your face wouldn't make anyone more alive after all.
    Remember remember the fifth of November
    Gunpowder, treason and plot.
    I see no reason why gunpowder, treason
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  17. #10037
    Quote Originally Posted by ita View Post
    For some reason, I can never pick any other ending than control:P It seems like the best ending overall. Shepard survives (more or less), Citadel survives, relays get fixed by the reapers, all crew survives including EDI and the geth.

    With destroy, even if Shepard does survive, you still kill off EDI and kind of backstab the geth not to mention making Legions sacrifice mean nothing.

    And synthesis seems equally as bad. Shepard dead, everyone turned into freaks. Sure EDI claims she is now "alive", but she was alive before too. Having some green stuff on your face wouldn't make anyone more alive after all.
    Don't worry, Leviathan is about to be launched ruining control end, while it show that reapers can rebel against the Catalyst.
    So your control might not work for long and Reapers can start one even worse war.

    Buu <= WHY I LOVE TO PLAY HUNTERS! => Pendleton

  18. #10038
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    First ever Reaper to join the Spectres, anyone?

    On the topic of creating the story, I think I understand the issue. You technically do create you story, insofar as you could create anything else where the components have been handed to you. An example would be when you build a shelf from prefab parts with an instruction booklet. While the company that you purchased the shelf from has indeed created all of the pieces required and the instructions necessary for you to know how to put them together, it ultimately falls on you to create the final product.

    Extrapolating this out to be more like the Mass Effect series, take the same shelf scenario, only this time you are given an array of options to choose from in order to customize your shelf. You can customize the dimensions, colors, whether or not there are those little separators to prevent books from falling on their side when the shelf isn't entirely full - in the end you are creating a shelf out of pieces that have been handed to you. It is ultimately your creation. Since there is a limited number of options you are bound to find somebody with the same exact bookshelf, sure, but that doesn't change the fact that you created your shelf and they created their shelf.

    Then, as we wrap this back to Mass Effect proper, we can see that you doing the same thing. You are selecting from a number of options, all of them provided by Bioware, in order to create your story. A lot of people will create similar stories, but they are creating them nonetheless.

    You can use creating and choosing interchangeably as well, as you are creating as much as you are choosing.

  19. #10039
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buu View Post
    Don't worry, Leviathan is about to be launched ruining control end, while it show that reapers can rebel against the Catalyst.
    So your control might not work for long and Reapers can start one even worse war.
    Still better than the other 2 endings plus a chance for ME 4 with Shepard as a reaper preaching how "infinitely greater" he/she is and assuming direct control.. :P
    Remember remember the fifth of November
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    I see no reason why gunpowder, treason
    Should ever be forgot...

  20. #10040
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    Then, as we wrap this back to Mass Effect proper, we can see that you doing the same thing. You are selecting from a number of options, all of them provided by Bioware, in order to create your story. A lot of people will create similar stories, but they are creating them nonetheless.
    Indeed. It is the same concept that is used when you Role play or play PnP games like D&D. You create your story with the tools provided to you and bound by rules of the world. In this case Bioware is the Dungeon Master. We can't create a vampire and suck the blood of a banshee. We can't talk to iggy and quantum leap to another universe. We couldn't hook drive cores up to asteroids and use them as shields/weapons against the Reapers.

    We can only create our story within the parameters Bioware has set up. We can pick our Class, facial features, hair, gender, morality, crew, relationships, model collection, pets, weapons, armor, upgrades, decisions etc that all have an impact on the story that is told to us by the game. We have the power to Create exactly what we want or don't want from the story.

    I can create a story where the Geth die or where Wrex is dead or where the Rachni are dead or where Legion and Grunt were never part of my crew.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-05 at 05:41 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Buu View Post
    Don't worry, Leviathan is about to be launched ruining control end, while it show that reapers can rebel against the Catalyst.
    So your control might not work for long and Reapers can start one even worse war.
    The reasons why or how it is possible are still unknown. It has to be a pretty special case or there would have been more evidence of factions with in the Reapers. We've seen known of it through out all 3 games until now.

    Contains possible spoilers: http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/08/...fect-3s-ending

    The relevant not really a spoiler line, but I'll tag it anyways, is:
    "Completing the downloadable content creates an additional rift in your ending. You can expect to see multiple Easter eggs, subtle changes, and references to its story when you reach the Extended Cut conclusion."

    So you can see it isn't impacting the 4 major endings of Control, Destroy, Synthesis, and Reject but it will be changing some of the filler or detail parts of those endings. Bioware won't be creating conflicting information with Control because they aren't changing the ending. So that means no new control and no invalidated control.
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