1. #11701
    Quote Originally Posted by Megaira View Post
    Had to laugh at how rhorle tried to argue desperately on that topic
    Its almost adorable how much effort hes putting in.
    Is he trying to fool us, or himself?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrmwing View Post
    Heh, give him his moment of glory. ^^
    I cant after seeing a guy solo platinum.

  2. #11702
    Titan Nerraw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    11,511
    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    I only saw a few minutes of it but it looked slicker than a lubed up olympic swimmer fleeing from a shark.

  3. #11703
    Dark energy is hinted somewhere in parts throughout the game
    O vs S is a major plot theme through all 3 parts of the game.

    Clearly one is more established than the other.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 05:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by The EagleOwl Mage View Post
    The organic VS Synthetic plot had more relevance to the game than just a few missions. I feel as thought the Dark energy plot would have been even more unexpected and convoluted.
    Dark Energy would have been just as bad as space magic. It would be "hanging a lantern on it". A massive contrivance that came out of nowhere. O vs S has been a running theme of mass effect since the very beginning.

  4. #11704
    Elemental Lord Dezerte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    8,046
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    Dark energy is hinted somewhere in parts throughout the game
    O vs S is a major plot theme through all 3 parts of the game.

    Clearly one is more established than the other.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 05:22 PM ----------



    Dark Energy would have been just as bad as space magic. It would be "hanging a lantern on it". A massive contrivance that came out of nowhere. O vs S has been a running theme of mass effect since the very beginning.
    The Dark Energy plot involves synthetics vs. organics as well, it's just not the main theme of it.
    To declare that a personal, inner experience gives certainty about the workings of the universe is to assign far too much value to one’s subjective sense of conviction.
    I’m not that arrogant.

    The brain, marvelous instrument though it is, isn’t infallible. It can misfire, seize or hallucinate, and it can do so in a way that’s utterly indistinguishable from reality to the person experiencing it.

  5. #11705
    Herald of the Titans Yakobro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,678
    Quote Originally Posted by Gravath View Post
    It is, but Yakobo got boosted.

    He got more points because all except him died on wave 5 and he got to concussive shot spam down phantoms D:
    And I was face tanking stuff alot with the stim packs so they could get off fire
    The solo platinum Volus is da best.

  6. #11706
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    5,622
    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    Did I mentioned already how silly it is that magical space wave that turns tree's into cyborgs?!?! ah ah ah ~ robot tree's ~
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...NCxoO9s#t=185s though I'm sure you will just ignore it again even though it points out the validity of the synthesis. There are also a few other potential explanations that could be used but none that are talked about by people in the game. The Citadel has a matter transport and could have transported Nanites with the galactic wave. It could have been a specific form of energy manipulation that gave off a certain radiation to mutate DNA.

    If you accept all the other silly stuff in Mass Effect there is no reason to draw the line here except just to be irrational.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  7. #11707
    Quote Originally Posted by Yakobo15 View Post

    He got more points because all except him died on wave 5 and he got to concussive shot spam down phantoms D:
    And I was face tanking stuff alot with the stim packs so they could get off fire
    The solo platinum Volus is da best.
    Why werent you that good when i played with you? ;<


    And slightly less ontopic:
    How does a Quadriplegic person masturbate?

    And Rhorle, a robot philosophing is hardly equal to lets say, anything.
    No idea how you can put that forth.
    Oh wait, you are rhorle.
    Last edited by Gravath; 2012-11-19 at 06:27 PM.

  8. #11708
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    5,622
    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    My claim was in the context of how they choose species to build a reaper from - it supports Dark Energy only because for Dark Energy you have to choose the best suitable. Considering that reapers are built from DNA - Genetic Diversity would be a huge plus for a resulting Reaper.
    And why do they have to choose only one? If you are trying to solve a problem that no one has been able to solve after millions of years why would you pick one? Why not pick everyone to get everyone's input? Genetic Diversity matters little for a reaper because it is organic minds preserved in a machine body. Reapers do not become more powerful off of genetics.
    They couldn't solve the problem by conventional means. Get it? They couldn't solve problem in reaper form. Get it?
    They couldn't just go and tell rookies - "here's the problem now solve it". It would achieve nothing. Half the rookies would just say "gtfo".
    There's an advantage in encountering the problem first hand and trying to solve it. It may lead to interesting results. New ideas, etc.
    If reapers would just tell about it - they would have to give their research data - and that would lead to fail - because that research has already failed. it would be a dead end. They needed a fresh view on the problem and devised the only way to get it.
    If the problem can't be solved in reaper form then what does making people into reapers accomplish? How would creating a Human reaper solve the problem if using Reaper research and Reaper form wouldn't solve the problem. If the Reapers really cared about having the problem solved they would have left Research to build upon. Just like the Crucible was created from cycles worth of people building it. It was a plan that didn't just get created by one cycle but created by all of them.

    You are dismissing the power of already having established data to build from. Even failed research is valuable research. You can still get a fresh view while showing people things that didn't work. So 50,000 years isn't wasted on the same stuff.

    Do not mix two scenarios. In Dark Energy scenario Geth or Synthetics - do not matter. They are part of the cycle. And their actions led to a failure.
    In Starchild scenario Dark Energy doesn't matter - synthetics were a menace to life, not galaxy.
    You did not understand. The Catalyst ending doesn't exclude Dark energy it just doesn't use it as the motivation for the Reaper cycle. I was saying that the Organic versus Synthetic conflict could have been disrupting research into Dark Energy and so Leviathan created the Catalyst to find a solution to that problem. They wanted a solution to stop it so they could focus their attention on Dark Energy and not on the pathetic squabbling of lesser life forms.

    I'm not mixing the two scenarios. I was point out that the problem of Dark Energy effecting a star has existed for at least 300 years in the Mass Effect Universe. And study of it was interrupted by a synthetic life form. You said a species would fail for not noticing the problem in time. So what is in time? Because at least two species knew about Dark Energy destabilizing a star at least 300 years prior to the Reaper invasion. Why wouldn't the reapers pick one of those two? why would they pick someone because of genetic diversity instead of for having studied and considered the problem?

    Maybe I should. Because you do not know lore of ME that well. Hence all the wiki links... you miss a lot of crucial details. The one in particular here is that: all that you mentioned was derived from Relays. The whole Mass Effect technology that causes the problem. Comes from Relays. The reaper technology placed there to be found...I explained that before already, numerous times.
    I use wiki links to back up my claims and to prove to you that it isn't something I'm making up but something supported in the game. Eezo doesn't exist because of the Mass Relays. Eezo exists because Eezo exists. If Dark Energy is a huge problem that the Reapers need to cull people about every 50,000 years in order to stop, why would they generate an exponential amount more each cycle?


    To solve it, DOH!
    Oh so solving the problem is generating a ton of Dark Energy? Brilliant! We fix the problem by creating more of the problem! Mass relays and Eezo all generate dark energy. The only way dark energy scenario would make sense is if the Reapers are trying to stop the loss of dark energy. Which isn't supported by Haestrom. As it says the star is destabilizing because of to much dark energy and not to little.

    No. I don't even know where to begin. First of all, it's not like you turn the Core on and galaxy goes boom. No. The problem is there but it is far from being an immediate danger.
    Then why have a cycle? Why cull everyone every 50,000 years if its not an immediate threat?

    WHAT FLAW?
    And how can you see any sense in Organic vs Synthetics? It's stupid. You do not need no cycles nor harvesting to achieve that. You can even go all the peaceful way you so enjoy... Please stop this bullshit. There will be no Dark Energy problem in ME unless they retcon ME3 entirely. Including DLCs. Like Leviathan.
    The flaw of Dark Energy being a problem but we are going to have every cycle use only technology that generates Dark Energy. Everything in Mass Effect that uses Eezo generates Dark Energy. That would be an exponential growth each cycle. We learn that leviathan is old, very old. That means there would have been hundreds if not thousands of cycles adding a TON of dark energy to the universe.


    I'm not talking about ENDINGS.
    Yes you are. The Dark Energy leak was the ending for Mass Effect. It was changed for the ending to be about Synthetic versus Organics.

    The premise was MAKING SENSE. It wasn't "forget everything" - it was "remember all that? now you know what it meant"
    So why does Because of Dark Energy magically makes every thing make sense. But Because of Chaos doesn't? They both do the same for everything in Mass Effect. One is just being put up on a pedestal because it was denied to you. You even ignore the flaws of the Dark Energy theory in order to keep it up on that pedestal.

    Fuuuuuck... The question was: why the fuck do they need the keepers/sovereign/whatever. Who builds an enormous Alarm Clock and then places it so far away - so you need help hearing it? Couldn't they just come over every 50000 years to check things out? This is not just some question. It's plain stupidity in Synthetics vs Organics scenario. Why Reapers even retreat to dark space in the first place? Why? I do not get it. Arrival DLC was just plain stupid. No wonder, it was made in light of ME3. Somehow reapers came. So what's the point of Sovereign? Harbinger?
    What if life didn't evolve to use space travel in 50,000 years? Why would they fly all that way just to find out they had nothing to destroy? Remember the reapers don't destroy all life. Just all life that meets their criteria. Reapers retreat to Dark space because they aren't just about the extermination of all life. They want people to evolve and grow with out them around. If they stayed around then someone might fight them off or develop ways to fight them and leave them for the next cycle. As Liara did if you fail in the game.

    The catalyst was created to Preserve life. The Catalyst is merely a computer program and thus is still bound by its programing to see its task completed. That is why the cycle exists because it is the way that the Catalyst sees to preserve life while at the same time solving the problem his creators tasked him to solve. The problem of the endless chaos always caused by Organics versus Synthetics.

    Sovereign was the Vanguard. The Reaper left behind to monitor and collect intel about the current cycle. And to send the signal to the Citadel when the cycle was ready. The Keepers were the slaves who maintained the Citadel while all other traces of the Reapers remained hidden. Sovereign could have been any other Reaper. Harbinger and Sovereign aren't special in the fact that they are critical to the cycle happening.

    Why they need them to make a call? Of course keepers have many other uses. That's irrelevant.
    Their uses are relevant because it explains why the Reapers keep them around and need them. They need the keepers to make the call and prepare the Citadel because the Reapers hide all traces of themselves each cycle. The Keepers are the one who change the Citadel around so it can function as a giant mass relay and whatever else the Reapers need it for. The reason why we see the citadel so change at the end of Mass Effect 3 was because of the keepers.

    Yeah. it fits nicely into Dark Energy scenario. But not into the Synthetics vs Organics. the sole goal of Reapers - not allowing Synthetics. Sovereign was obligated to destroy Geth - he didn't. Keepers could be replaced by any other race - Asari would do nicely. Not to mention the fact that they do not need keepers. You're grasping for straws.
    The reapers are not anti synthetic. Sovereign wasn't obligated to destroy the geth he was obligated to eventually preserve them and then destroy them. Like they do every other form of life in the galaxy each cycle. The Keepers could be replaced by every other race but Sovereign thought that a machine race would be less open to corruption then an organic one. The Asari would have had the same potential flaws as the keepers did. Sovereign wanted to use the Geth instead of an organic race for the Citadel care takers.

    If they do not need keepers who will get the Citadel ready for the next cycle? Who will keep the Citadel running? Life Support running? Remember the Citadel's central control hub isn't known by anyone. It is something that is hidden from non-reapers. The keepers or something that did the keepers role is needed otherwise the Citadel would just be a floating hunk of space junk not useful to anyone.

    It just makes no sense. Reapers could patrol the galaxy and peacefully remind everyone to not build no AI. Punish the rule breakers. Keep the ORDER. Something we see in blue ending. Funny heh?
    As I said Leviathan explained that someone always broke the rules, and the chaos started all over again. The Reapers are not meant to be jailors or slavers. They are meant to preserve life (both synthetic and organic) in reaper form because no other way could the conflict stopped. Destroy and Control doesn't stop the problem. This is why Synthesis is the "perfect score" ending. It is the only ending that actually solves the problem.

    A peaceful solution is to outlaw AI and enforce it - reapers can enforce it. There would've been no humans though as there would've been no cycles. But it would've worked.
    AI is already outlawed in the current cycle with the Citadel able to enforce it. Guess what? It still is created. Just because you outlaw something and have someone around to enforce it doesn't mean it will actually stop. Also how would the Reapers enforce it? Turn you into a reaper if you break the rule? Just kill you? And you don't think eventually someone would revolt against such control and mass murder?

    If the Reapers were always around then they could be defeated easier. Just like every other rebellion in real world history. Oppressed people eventually find enough flaws in the system where they can over throw their oppressors. I'm sure the Reapers tried exactly what you think is the only possible reason. Remember they have had millions if not billions of years to do this. We have only seen one cycle and partial glimpses of other cycles.

    In one synthetic life could have been the dominate force when the Reapers came. In another they could have stuck around and tried to police the building of AI (though as Leviathan points out they were doing this and failing at it. So they created the Catalyst and started the Reaper threat). In one all life could have wiped itself out.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 02:23 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Gravath View Post
    And Rhorle, a robot philosophing is hardly equal to lets say, anything.
    Why is EDI less then any other organic? The clip I provide has her thinking of it because Liara asked her to do so. The laws of the universe remain the same for organics thinking about it as they do a synthetic thinking about it. If it is possible under the laws of the universe it doesn't matter what species thought of it.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  9. #11709
    EDI speculating on a theory with the only basis being "if we charge up enough power, we can dip into an alternate universe.".
    So much for disproving "A spacewizard did it".

    Are you religious by any chance?

    Enough is enough. The snide remarks and quips need to stop. Infracted. -Edge
    Last edited by Edge-; 2012-11-19 at 08:37 PM.

  10. #11710
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    5,622
    Quote Originally Posted by Gravath View Post
    EDI speculating on a theory with the only basis being "if we charge up enough power, we can dip into an alternate universe.".
    So much for disproving "A spacewizard did it".
    You do realize that the Crucible is a giant power source? And the whole reason why it was docked with the Citadel was because it required the Mass Relays to amplify its energy. A space wizard could very well have still done it. However EDI gives an in game explanation for how it is possible for something like the Synthesis ending to happen with out the use of magic. You can choose to accept it or not but denying the existence of it is just ignorance.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2012-11-19 at 08:17 PM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  11. #11711
    Herald of the Titans Yakobro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,678
    ...
    80k credits disappeared when I went to the store

  12. #11712
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    5,622
    Quote Originally Posted by Yakobo15 View Post
    ...
    80k credits disappeared when I went to the store
    http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/to...83173#14897968 may be useful for your situation.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  13. #11713
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    However EDI gives an in game explanation for how it is possible for something like the Synthesis ending to happen with out the use of magic.
    Its even less of an "explanation" than "The overload will rip a hole through space and time, replacing every living being with an alternate universe version of themselves but augmented and glowing green from the radioactive waste that is produced in their bodies as a sideeffect."
    Last edited by Gravath; 2012-11-19 at 09:33 PM.

  14. #11714
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    5,622
    Quote Originally Posted by Gravath View Post
    Its even less of an "explanation" than "The overload will rip a hole through space and time, replacing every living being with an alternate universe version of themselves but augmented and glowing green from the radioactive waste that is produced in their bodies as a sideeffect."
    The world of Mass effect has its own laws of physics and nature. EDI states how it is theoretically possible for enough energy to cause 1+1=3. It isn't about going into an alternate universe but about exposure to the energy changing the very nature of life. In this case instead of changing the Universe or creating an alternate one it was focused to changing DNA.

    As I said you don't have to accept it but to deny it is a possible explanation is just ignorance. It is possible through the information provided by the game for Synthesis to be a magic free ending. as an explanation it is less silly then some of the other things in Mass Effect.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2012-11-19 at 10:40 PM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  15. #11715
    Herald of the Titans Yakobro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,678

  16. #11716
    The whole non sense from the synthesis ending, is that if you assume that basically you get "god power to rewrite the base of life itself" , you can simply write in the DNA of every living species that they shall not create synthetic ever ever ever. You can rewrite people DNA to promote the power of dance, resulting in ever species caring about dancing and only dancing because why not? Just dance do not make war?

    And it's actually a lot better.

    If you look at it, everybody is immortal if you assume the current synthetis ending, but yeah people will want to reproduce (yeah no genophage), soon with every living thing having an endless lifespan you'll soonly find yourself in a situation where every square meter of the galaxy is filled with krogans butts.

    At this point war will start again just from the overpopulation. Boom nuclear war, one species will still try to destroy all the others because they want room for their butts. Your back to the same fate again a single half living half synthetic life form has killed everybody and rules the galaxy again.

    The synthetics are a problem because they don't naturally die, giving that ability to everybody is just worst.

  17. #11717
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The world of Mass effect has its own laws of physics and nature. EDI states how it is theoretically possible.
    Anything is possible in theory.
    Difference is if its theoraticly feasible or (practicly) possible.

    And nothing is less silly than Hulk-a-thon 3000 magic ending.
    Last edited by Gravath; 2012-11-19 at 11:24 PM.

  18. #11718
    Titan Nerraw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    11,511
    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    I only saw a few minutes of it but it looked slicker than a lubed up olympic swimmer fleeing from a shark.

  19. #11719
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post

    If you accept all the other silly stuff in Mass Effect there is no reason to draw the line here except just to be irrational.
    I always found it funny. People would accept only so much and say THE LINE IS HERE BIOWARE. HERE AND NO MORE. It's like well where the fuck were you for the rest of the series?

  20. #11720
    Herald of the Titans Yakobro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,678
    Oh good, another weapons pack not to buy.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •