1. #12261
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    Were you okay with the vigil deus ex machina at the end of mass effect 1? Vigil literally comes out of nowhere, hands them the all the information about what's going on, provides them with the key to stopping the reapers from coming through AND sends them to the citadel. Huge deus ex machina in other words. I don't recall anyone complaining then.
    It was properly implemented. It wasn't at the end-spiel. It was inline with everything we learned so far in the game. It provided details to the background. Explained everything. And gave means to victory - but not victory itself.

    Harbinger could've played the Starchild's role just fine, trying to persuade Shepard not to use the Crucible 'cause "our mission is important. the harvest must continue". (regardless of either it "synth VS bio" or "Dark Energy"). He could explain everything. And the Crucible should've had only two options. Control and Destroy without renegade/paragon labels on them. And "destroy" should've been a precision strike OR "control" should've removed free will from Geth and EDI. To be equally acceptable/unacceptable choices.

    Starchild was not needed. Its addition wasn't required and had disastrous consequences.

  2. #12262
    End-Spiel? So you too are german speaking?

    BTW: I never liked the star-brat but to be honest I accepted it long ago as you can not change it anyway. So of course it was stupid that the kid suddenly came out of nowhere and claimed to control the reapers and that the citadel is his home.

    Let´s hope that they do better in ME4 and just forget everything that happens after running to the beam at least this is what I try to do. Just pray that ME4 will not be Deus-Ex 2.0 like ME3 was.

  3. #12263
    They should release a "STAR BRAT CUSTOM APPEARANCE PACK" for 160 bioware point you can reskin and revoice the catalyst:

    Comes in various flavor :

    -Option 1 : Harbringer appearance and voice
    -Option 2 : Your LI
    -Option 3 : Yourself
    -Option 4 : Conrad Verner

  4. #12264
    Quote Originally Posted by Sekira View Post
    They should release a "STAR BRAT CUSTOM APPEARANCE PACK" for 160 bioware point you can reskin and revoice the catalyst:

    Comes in various flavor :

    -Option 1 : Harbringer appearance and voice
    -Option 2 : Your LI
    -Option 3 : Yourself
    -Option 4 : Conrad Verner

    I would definitely pick option 4 just for the giggles.
    Last edited by Oerba Yun Fang; 2012-12-05 at 02:04 PM.

  5. #12265
    Herald of the Titans Yakobro's Avatar
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    Would the LI be naked?
    Or would that be more BW Points?

  6. #12266
    Quote Originally Posted by Sekira View Post
    They should release a "STAR BRAT CUSTOM APPEARANCE PACK" for 160 bioware point you can reskin and revoice the catalyst:

    Comes in various flavor :

    -Option 1 : Harbringer appearance and voice
    -Option 2 : Your LI
    -Option 3 : Yourself
    -Option 4 : Conrad Verner
    I´d pick Conrad Verner for sure That would be absolutely hillarious if the "catalyst" took on the form of Shepards biggest fan out there

    Also Zaeed for pure badassness.

  7. #12267
    lol Imagine Mordin as the Catalyst...

    ME2's Mordin, mind you. I didn't like the guy who did his voice for ME3 nearly as much.

  8. #12268
    Quote Originally Posted by Megaira View Post
    End-Spiel? So you too are german speaking?
    Nah, though the term is German in origin it made its way into many languages, including English and my native tongue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moontalon View Post
    lol Imagine Mordin as the Catalyst...

    ME2's Mordin, mind you. I didn't like the guy who did his voice for ME3 nearly as much.
    "Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong"

  9. #12269
    Quote Originally Posted by Moontalon View Post
    lol Imagine Mordin as the Catalyst...

    ME2's Mordin, mind you. I didn't like the guy who did his voice for ME3 nearly as much.
    Shepard: "Mordin, is that you?"
    Catalyst: "Shepard, good timing, good to see you !!"
    Shepard: "What are you doing on the citadel?"
    Catalyst: "The citadel is my home, I control the reapers !! They are my solution"

    Shepard:

    Catalyst: "Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong"

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-05 at 03:49 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    Nah, though the term is German in origin it made its way into many languages, including English and my native tongue.

    "Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong"
    I thought that the english term for spiel is game ? Still new things to learn apparently.
    Last edited by The Illusive Man; 2012-12-05 at 02:20 PM.

  10. #12270
    Quote Originally Posted by Megaira View Post
    I thought that the english term for spiel is game ? Still new things to learn apparently.
    Well, yeah. Endgame is endspiel in English. The use of endspiel in English text is somewhat "geeky" - one have to know what it means. I just like the term - since it is used in my native tongue with almost the same pronunciation as in German. Mostly in chess and literature.

  11. #12271
    Still more opportunity to test the beta of my "increased difficulty mod" for SP if more people are interested. I will re-send an updated version which should also increase the difficulty of DLC-specific enemies such as Adjudant or "named" npcs.

    I'll then probably try to update balance change from Multiplayer weapons into SP (damage, won't be able to remove things such as charge-up on specific weapons)

  12. #12272
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    Were you okay with the vigil deus ex machina at the end of mass effect 1? Vigil literally comes out of nowhere, hands them the all the information about what's going on, provides them with the key to stopping the reapers from coming through AND sends them to the citadel. Huge deus ex machina in other words. I don't recall anyone complaining then.
    Vigil made sense. It would make sense for the protheans to leave behind warnings for future generations (such as the beacons, Vigil and Vendetta)

    Star Child just raised too many questions. For example, if he controlled the Reapers and was on the Citadel why were Sovereign or the Keepers even necessary? Why couldn't he activate the Citadel itself? Where did the blue/red pillars come from? If those were built on the Crucible, fine, but they weren't, they were on the Citadel in a location where no organic had ever been before. Why would the Reapers build a control or kill switch into the Citadel?

    I do love the ending with the extended cut, with the exception of the star child. Star child just doesn't work for me.

    Vigil on the other hand fit the story and made sense.

    If a video game developer removed tumors from players, they'd whine about nerfing their loss in weight and access to radiation powers. -Cracked.com

  13. #12273
    Brewmaster Aveline's Avatar
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    AAAAAH. The first Mass Effect is already available in the PlayStation Store! I thought I'd have to wait 'till friday! *runs around the room*

    “When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.” | Sig by Shyama <3

  14. #12274
    Legendary! Dezerte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orissa View Post
    Vigil made sense. It would make sense for the protheans to leave behind warnings for future generations (such as the beacons, Vigil and Vendetta)

    Star Child just raised too many questions. For example, if he controlled the Reapers and was on the Citadel why were Sovereign or the Keepers even necessary? Why couldn't he activate the Citadel itself? Where did the blue/red pillars come from? If those were built on the Crucible, fine, but they weren't, they were on the Citadel in a location where no organic had ever been before. Why would the Reapers build a control or kill switch into the Citadel?

    I do love the ending with the extended cut, with the exception of the star child. Star child just doesn't work for me.

    Vigil on the other hand fit the story and made sense.
    Yeah, Vigil actually made sense.

    I remember the first time driving in those tunnels and finding Vigil, my "nerd boner" was raging as I investigated every possible dialogue. Same goes for the first dialogue with Harbringer.
    To declare that a personal, inner experience gives certainty about the workings of the universe is to assign far too much value to one’s subjective sense of conviction.
    I’m not that arrogant.

    The brain, marvelous instrument though it is, isn’t infallible. It can misfire, seize or hallucinate, and it can do so in a way that’s utterly indistinguishable from reality to the person experiencing it.

  15. #12275
    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    It was properly implemented. It wasn't at the end-spiel. It was inline with everything we learned so far in the game. It provided details to the background. Explained everything. And gave means to victory - but not victory itself.

    Harbinger could've played the Starchild's role just fine, trying to persuade Shepard not to use the Crucible 'cause "our mission is important. the harvest must continue". (regardless of either it "synth VS bio" or "Dark Energy"). He could explain everything. And the Crucible should've had only two options. Control and Destroy without renegade/paragon labels on them. And "destroy" should've been a precision strike OR "control" should've removed free will from Geth and EDI. To be equally acceptable/unacceptable choices.

    Starchild was not needed. Its addition wasn't required and had disastrous consequences.
    I agree vigil was better implemented, primarily because you could investigate with him and get all kinds of interesting information. That doesn't mean deus ex machina is bad plot device. It can be if you don't execute it properly and you can make the case the star kid did that. I actually don't agree. The ending had me on the edge of my seat the first time through. Oddly enough it wasn't till I got on the web and everybody told me what was up and why I was wrong for enjoying it that I noticed the flaws in it.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-05 at 09:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by orissa View Post
    Vigil made sense. It would make sense for the protheans to leave behind warnings for future generations (such as the beacons, Vigil and Vendetta)

    Star Child just raised too many questions. For example, if he controlled the Reapers and was on the Citadel why were Sovereign or the Keepers even necessary? Why couldn't he activate the Citadel itself? Where did the blue/red pillars come from? If those were built on the Crucible, fine, but they weren't, they were on the Citadel in a location where no organic had ever been before. Why would the Reapers build a control or kill switch into the Citadel?

    I do love the ending with the extended cut, with the exception of the star child. Star child just doesn't work for me.

    Vigil on the other hand fit the story and made sense.
    Sovereign and the keepers were likely unaware of his existence. Think of the star child as a involuntary process that goes on as you sleep. Most of the problems can actually be understood if you view the star kid as a hidden process. A process that say compelled the reapers to build the pillars without them being aware of actually doing it.

    By the same token theirs lots of questions we could ask about vigil? How is that the reapers simple passed him by? How did they leave and forget one of the protheans research facilities? Sovereign has been tooling around the galaxy for awhile you figured he would have cleaned it up by the time mass effect 1 rolls around.
    Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2012-12-05 at 09:18 PM.

  16. #12276
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    Oddly enough it wasn't till I got on the web and everybody told me what was up and why I was wrong for enjoying it that I noticed the flaws in it.
    Well, I felt wrong right after the Starchild said (I'm paraphrasing): "We bring Order to the Chaos. Synthetics are Chaos."
    Right there I was going ""wtf?"
    I like the idea of Order<BALANCE>Chaos. I read a lot of Moorcock. And I played a lot of D&D Bioware's games. But I just don't see how Synthetics are involved in that, considering Starchild itself is Synthetic and Reapers are machines. Just no. Not to mention that Order vs Chaos conflict must be DEEPER. But it was obvious it wasn't Order vs Chaos - it were just words used wrongly. It was machines wiping out higher bio-life so no new machines are built that would destroy all bio-life.
    Never was it proven that Synthetics are gonna wipe all life in the galaxy. It's assumed. But thru all ME games we see otherwise. Geth - the only machines that could threaten us - were minding their own business in their pocket of the galaxy - until Sovereign corrupted them. In ME2 we learnt that not every Geth is bad. In ME3 (even in fucking ME3) we learnt that it was Quarians who started the "Geth war" that led to their exile. Geth were always acting in SELF-DEFENSE. And in the end helped stopping the Reapers fighting along with Quarians, hand in hand (well at least in my walk-through). Thru all ME3 (the fucking ME3) we are answering the question is AI alive? Paragon Shepard can even make EDI "feel" alive. And the famous: "Does this unit have a soul?"

    Starchild just didn't make any sense. My jaw dropped. I chose Control in my first walk-through only because I didn't want to kill Geth and EDI.
    Btw, How does Control solve the "Synthetics wiping biolife" problem? It doesn't. Does it? But if it magically does - why the fuck do we have harvesting cycles in the first place?

    To many questions (and that's not a complement).

    P.S.
    Starchild: You have to choose.
    Jean-luc Picard: I refuse to make a choice!
    Starchild: So be it!
    William Riker: Shileds to maximum. Lock phasers.
    Worf: Shield's up. Phasers locked.
    Jean-luc Picard: Fire!
    Worf: Reapers are destroyed, sir.
    Last edited by Elim Garak; 2012-12-05 at 09:58 PM.

  17. #12277

  18. #12278
    Over 9000! Nerraw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aveline View Post
    AAAAAH. The first Mass Effect is already available in the PlayStation Store! I thought I'd have to wait 'till friday! *runs around the room*
    Congrats on finally being able to shape your savegames.

  19. #12279
    Brewmaster Aveline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    Congrats on finally being able to shape your savegames.
    Woop, thanks! I really can't wait. I never looked into Mass Effect 1 that deeply, I just played it through to experience the major plot. I actually do have it on Xbox, but naturally I wasn't able to port the decisions to the PS3-version of Mass Effect. I might find some new stuff while exploring it fully. Ooooh.

    “When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.” | Sig by Shyama <3

  20. #12280
    Titan Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    Btw, How does Control solve the "Synthetics wiping biolife" problem? It doesn't. Does it? But if it magically does - why the fuck do we have harvesting cycles in the first place?
    Control doesn't solve the Synthetics wiping biolife issue exactly, but it does give Shepard the tools to protect and defend against another rise of synthetics . . . or she could just say "fuck it" and let the cycles continue.

    If a video game developer removed tumors from players, they'd whine about nerfing their loss in weight and access to radiation powers. -Cracked.com

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