[Megathread] Mass Effect 3

[rhorle]

It most certainly does. As stated by the Catalyst, Shepard is partly synthetic and would therefore be destroyed aswell.

Destroy your cybernetics isn't the same as react with your cybernetics. The destroy ending doesn't involve anything digital in order for it to happen. It is a purely organic option which is why it kills off the cybernetic implants of Shepard. If it destroys the implants how do you expect them to glow? Blue burns away everything organic and leaves beyond Shepard synthetic skeleton. Green uses Shepards as the template which requires his synthetic side. The irony is that the green option was only made possible because the Illusive man managed the same feat when he brought Shepard back to life.

I perfectly understand the green option. I understand free will isn't affected, but Shepard making the choice does absolve all free will, in that you make the decision for everyone to become that new framework. But the diversity prior to this event happening is gone. Regardless, do you really think organics would accept synthetics now if they didn't before? The geth are still created, no matter them being equal now. And this might be going over the line, but both white and black people were born, yet white people enslaved black people. Being the same doesn't change sh*t. People always find a reason to cause problems. Synthetics might not destroy organics anymore, but this android/cyborg/organthetics/synthganic faction would have trouble with another faction and they would obliterate eachother.

The whole game, 1-3, is about Shepard making decisions for the entire galaxy. Why is the fact that every one is forced to live with his choice suddenly bad? Also no diversity is gone because Shepard post Mass Effect 1 is exactly what synthesis creates. The problem is you are approaching this like a Human instead of like a synthetic life form. Being the same does change stuff.

The cycle was never about finding a way to create peace. The cycle was about finding a way for Organics and Synthetics to not always end up at war. The levithans (and later the reapers) saw this play out time after time. That always one would fight with the other because of the a lack of understanding. You can see this difference of view points in how EDI talks about how she is starting to gain humanity during her idle talks on the ship. Every option still leaves open the possibility of wars and crime but it won't be just because X is a computer. You'll never see a conflict like the Geth and Quarians again because the fundamental reasons for that conflict won't happen.

What really is the difference between an ending and an epilogue? An epilogue happens after the end. But where does the end end and the epilogue start? The IT doesn't start after the ending of the game, it starts before Shepard even reaches the Citadel; it is part of the ending of the game. It's just a way of interpreting it. Wether Bioware intended for that to happen or not, I couldn't care less. The IT gives me a more than acceptable ending and allows me to create my own perfect epilogue that I am extremely satisfied with. And again, if they did not want me to do that, they shouldn't have made those 'mistakes' and shouldn't have made the endings so vague.

You answered you own question. An epilogue happens after the ending. In the context of Mass Effect 3 the epilogue is whatever we choose to imagine after the the game ends. You don't change anything about the endings you just create what happens after the ending. For example I like to think that the Story teller and child are descendants of my Shepard and his Love interest. Or I think of the Story Teller as the manifestation of Reaper Shepard (cause I choose blue for my favorite/cannon ending) and he is sharing stories with some one in the galaxy (It might even be virtual in some sort of matrix like reaper program for learning)

Part of the ending isn't the ending. You are rewriting the ending because you refuse to follow the story as Bioware is telling it. Why not just go back to Mass Effect 1 and say the true ending is Shepard dying at the beacon on Eden Prime and everything is just glitch of the beacons memory transferring systems? What other parts of the story did you just rewrite because you didn't like it?

They aren't mistakes they are just random events that you choose to great irrational connections and explanations for why they must exist. Or some of them could just be mistakes in textures and art models. Programming bugs do happen.

[Statix]

I'm not rewriting the ending, I am merely interpreting it in a different way. The breating scene after the Red option is the moment my Shepard wakes up after she's fought of Harbinger's indoctrination attempt. Everything from being hit by Harbinger, up until to point where she wakes up, has been a dream. Nowhere does it say this cannot be true, therefore, I have not changed anything about the ending. The entire ending has a dream-like feeling to it. Atleast, I interpret it that way.

I see the scene with Anderson and TIM as a 50% chance Harbinger will succeed at indoctrinating Shepard; she either lives or dies. Dying in the dream means being indoctrinated. The scene with the Catalyst/Starchild represents a 75% Harbinger indoctrinates Shepard. After all, three choices involve Shepard dying and failing to destroy the Reapers. Only one choice allows her to survive and destroy the Reapers in the process. The Starchild, obviously being a manifestation of Harbinger dramatizes the Red option to make it the least appealing one. The Red choice is the last piece of Shepard remaining. Harbinger can only manipulate Shepard, as her will is too strong to overcome. Choosing Red will free her, choosing any other option will result in her being indoctrinated.

My epilogue - if you are interested

My epilogue starts directly after the breating scene. It involves Shepard asking the Normandy to distract Harbinger while she runs towards the beam and fights of some Reaper ground forces. Inside the Citadel, in a hallway similar to what she experienced in the dream, she's faced with waves of Reapers. Eventually, the Reaper's numbers are too great and she calls for help. Garrus (or whatever squad mate you'd want) walks up to Joker and tells him to position the ship next to the beam, because they are going to jump in. EDI fires one massive attack at Harbinger, making him lose his balance which allows the Normandy to hover next to the beam. All squad mates jump in. Just as Harbinger regains his balance, the Normandy flies away. In the meanwhile, Shepard is still fighting off the Reapers when all her squad mates come to her aid. A perfect moment for the Mass Effect 2 Suicide Mission song to start playing.

Having fought through dozens of waves of Reapers, they finally arrive at the large circular room before the control room. Shepard's squad mates tell her to move on as they will prevent the Reapers from passing. Shepard runs to the control room where she will come face to face with the Illusive Man. They talk for a bit and it will end with the Illusive Man saying "I'm sorry Shepard, I was wrong," before being possessed by Harbinger. Through TIM, Harbinger tries to kill Shepard. He did not succeed to indoctrinate Shepard during the scene with Anderson and TIM in the dream, nor did he succeed to indoctrinate her with the Catalyst/Starchild scene. This is his final attempt to stop her.

The game being about unity, so I thought it fitting to let this fight be about survival and endurance. So, her own abilities and weapons have no affect on the Possessed Illusive Man (PIM). Instead, Shepard has to use her squad mates' abilties to damage him, as they stand for unity. She's been using them throughout the game, so she has the potential to use all of them again. Whenever it's an ability, it will deal direct damage. Whenever it's an ammo upgrade, she will be able to fire her weapon with the ammo for a short while and it will damage PIM. The overal time of the fight remains the same, but the intervals between being able to use her squad mates abilities change depending on how many squad mates she has. After that, PIM is still too strong and overpowers her.

He says a few lines before tossing her across the room. After every throw, a few squad mates and crewmembers flash before Shepard's eyes. She tries to get up, but she can't. Harbinger, in all his evil, is toying with Shepard, mocking her. The throwing and the flashes continue, until the final flash shows her love interest (LI). That gives her enough strength to get up and charge at PIM. PIM completely surprised and caught of guard, tries to punch her, but Shepard slides under him. She quickly gets up as PIM turns around. Before PIM can act however, Shepard turns her omni-tool into a sword and cuts off PIM's head.

Badly hurt, she makes her way to the console. After a few moments, she reaches the console and presses the button that will open the Citadel doors; immediately positions itself to destroy the Reapers all over the galaxy. The Citadel, serving as the Catalyst, combined with the Crucible charge up and fire a devestating attack that uses the Mass Relays to destroy all Reapers and only the Reapers across the entire galaxy. The Citadel, Crucible and Mass Relays are heavily damaged, but not nearly as severely as seen in the Extended Cut scene. EDI, the geth and all other synthetics survive, as the Crucible was created to specifily designed to target Reapers.

Across the galaxy, races will be celebrating the defeat of the Reapers. Shepard's squad mates will walk up to her and carry her back to the beam. If your LI is a squad mate, that squad mate will first hug and kiss Shepard and will Shepard that he/she loves her. she Shepard before they move to the beam. In case of it being a crewmember, the scene will play once they arrive on the Normandy, which is the case for me. Samantha Traynor is the LI for my Shepard. They all enter the Normandy and Samantha hugs and kisses Shepard and says she loves her. The doors open and in the Combat Information Center are all her crewmembers cheering and celebrating, proud to have been a part of such an epic journey.

A year later, all surviving squad mates and crewmembers of all games and anyone else Shepard has befriended throughout the game prepare for a reunion at Shepard's house. As my Shepard's LI is Samatha Traynor, the house will be on Earth and will have a white picket fence. They will have two adopted children. In the process, a glimpse is shown of everyone's lives, how their home worlds are being rebuild and what they've been up to the last year. The cutscene continues as you see everyone laughing, sharing memories, remembering fallen friends and talking about their new lives. The final moment of this (my) epilogue cutscene is that everyone's standing the base surrounding the Reaper teleport beam looking up. The camera will slowly move from right to left, covering everyone Shepard has befriended over the games (so not just squad mates and crewmembers, as I said earlier), before finally showing what they are all looking at.

First pictures are shown of your falling squad mates and crewmembers, before finally seeing the complete picture. The camera shifts to a zoomed out position, showing everyone from the back looking up at the Normandy, which has been given a special place in the base serving as a memorial ground for all those who have fallen during the Reaper war and serving as a tribute to the greatest hero of the galaxy and her incredibly loyal squad and crew. While the camera slowly zooms out and the sun creates an amazingly beautiful picture, Shepard's LI will say: We should do this more often. Hinting that they will be all together far more often in the future and giving the player a good feeling that they will remain close friends.

As I planned for this story to be part of one final DLC, most of this story are cutscenes the player would experience. Throughout the story, there are three moments where the player would get control of Shepard: running towards the beam, in the hallway - where the player would be able to choose two squad mates to take control over and in the fight with PIM.

It's quite a lengthy story, hope you read it. Now honestly, where did I change the ending of the game? I simply created an epilogue that gives me a more satisfying ending.

[Myobi]

.... and there we fucking go again.

[Statix]

.... and there we fucking go again.

If you don't like the certain things that are being discussed in this thread, don't f**king read it. I'm simply talking about Mass Effect 3 in a thread about Mass Effect 3.

I only recently completed the game, so I'm a little late. Excuse me for venting some of my frustration, something you did 11 months ago.

[Mirve]

The ending for me will always be the Indoctrination theory, whether its truth or not, its what made sense to me before they added that extra free DLC to add epilogues for the choices taken.

[Myobi]

If you don't like the certain things that are being discussed in this thread, don't f**king read it. I'm simply talking about Mass Effect 3 in a thread about Mass Effect 3.

I only recently completed the game, so I'm a little late. Excuse me for venting some of my frustration, something you did 11 months ago.

... just like you did with my post?
By the way, the post wasn’t even directed to you… but yeah… nice going there mate.


Edited: How to I know if I like a post or not, without reading it anway?

[Mirve]

... just like you did with my post?
By the way, the post wasn’t even directed to you… but yeah… nice going there mate.


Edited: How to I know if I like a post or not, without reading it anway?

You just blew my mind there good sir.

[Statix]

... just like you did with my post?
By the way, the post wasn’t even directed to you… but yeah… nice going there mate.

When I said not to read it, I wasn't referring to posts...

...in this thread, don't f**king read it....

...I was referring to the entire thread.

Next time, use the quote-fuction to select the post you are replying to. Replying to someone without quoting their text generally means you are directing your message at the previous poster. But, regardless if you directed your post at me or not, posts like that and in turn mine aswell, are annoying for other readers.

As you are no longer the previous poster, I had to quote you aswell.

The ending for me will always be the Indoctrination theory, whether its truth or not, its what made sense to me before they added that extra free DLC to add epilogues for the choices taken.

I've never experienced the endings without the Extended Cut DLC and I believe in the Indoctrination Theory. Have you since then completed the game with the Extended Cut installed?

[Mirve]

When I said not to read it, I wasn't referring to posts, I was referring to the entire thread.

Next time, use the quote-fuction to select the post you are replying to. Replying to someone without quoting their text generally means you are directing your message at the previous poster. But, regardless if you directed your post at me or not, posts like that and in turn mine aswell, are annoying for other readers.

As you are no longer the previous poster, I had to quote you aswell.



I've never experienced the endings without the Extended Cut DLC and I believe in the Indoctrination Theory. Have you since then completed the game with the Extended Cut installed?

I have. And the indoctrination theory was shot down. I can't explain in detail as the last time i finished ME3, on a Paragon Shep, was quite awhile ago, but i'm sure the Extended Cut had a few lines that conflicted with the Indoctrination Theory. Like the dialogue between Shepard/Anderson/Illusive Man actually happened, wasn't "imagined" by Shepard. The whole dialogue was just awkward it seems. And the star child actually exists. And it added a few lines explaining the reasoning of the Reapers, because originally you couldn't ask questions to the Star Child, you would just nod your head, not questioning him on his bullshit.

[Oerba Yun Fang]

And I hated the indoctrination theory and did not want it to be a thing. lol

[Statix]

I have. And the indoctrination theory was shot down. I can't explain in detail as the last time i finished ME3 on a Paragon Shep, was quite awhile ago, but i'm sure the Extended Cut had a few lines that conflicted with the Indoctrination Theory. Like the dialogue between Shepard/Anderson/Illusive Man actually happened, wasn't "imagined" by Shepard. And the star child actually exists. And it added a few lines explaining the reasoning of the Reapers, because originally you couldn't ask questions to the Star Child, you would just nod your head, not questioning him on his bullshit.

Hmm, interesting. With the Extended Cut, many of the "mistakes" Bioware made still point to the Indoctrination Theory. A lot more was explained in the Starchild scene, true. But, the Starchild just doesn't seem trustworthy. Something still doesn't add up. A big pointer to the Indoctrination Theory is the breathing scene. The scenery clearly shows Earth building material, so how did Shepard end up back on Earth? Occam's razor, the simplest answer is most likely the correct one; he never left.

[Mirve]

And I hated the indoctrination theory and did not want it to be a thing. lol

I quite liked it. I remember reading the whole thing, and a video that Angry Joe did on Youtube and i was like "Whoooaa , slow down son, wuttt? how come i hadn't noticed that" . I brainstormed the whole thing for hours, and then i ended up replaying all 3 games on a Paragon shepard (my original character was a Renegade) , to watch all the dialogues and scenes that the indoctrination theory referenced as proof that Shepard was indoctrinated. That said, the endings were left satisfiable after the free Extended cut dlc, and more so after Leviathan DLC which explains the origins of Star Child and the Reapers.

---------- Post added 2013-02-11 at 02:21 AM ----------

The scenery clearly shows Earth building material, so how did Shepard end up back on Earth?[/spoiler] Occam's razor, the simplest answer is most likely the correct one; he never left.

Could have been yet another oversight, considering the amount of oversights the original endings had. Albeit a huge oversight.

[Oerba Yun Fang]

I quite liked it. I remember reading the whole thing, and a video that Angry Joe did on Youtube and i was like "Whoooaa , slow down son, wuttt? how come i hadn't noticed that" . I brainstormed the whole thing for hours, and then i ended up replaying all 3 games on a Paragon shepard (my original character was a Renegade) , to watch all the dialogues and scenes that the indoctrination theory referenced as proof that Shepard was indoctrinated. That said, the endings were left satisfiable after the free Extended cut dlc, and more so after Leviathan DLC which explains the origins of Star Child and the Reapers.

I had two main problems with it:

A) I don't really like it when protagonists have that sort of weakness. It's just a personal thing but I like the idea of the protagonist somehow being above the influence of the enemy.

B) There were points that I felt were seriously grasping at straws. For instance one of them was James asking if anyone else heard a hum while aboard the Normandy. A hum in the cargo bay of a space vessel? Surely not, no!

I don't really have a problem with people believing in the indoctrination theory, I just did not like it and did not want it to actually be what was happening in the game. If people want that to be their head cannon I'm good with that. lol

[Myobi]

Is there a difference? Isn’t a thread made out of posts anyway? I guess the question still stands, how can I know if I like a thread or not without freaking reading it? Shall I just judge it by the amazing tittle?

I posted that for a reason, with it’s obvious that you are clueless about, with is understandable since you are new to the post ~ I would gladly explain it all to you, the problem is… you just made me run out of fucks to give >.<

Therefore you’ll just have to go back a bunch of pages in this thread OR ask someone who has knowledge about the “Rhole Effect”….. “Did I ever tell you the definition of insanity ?”

…and, please don’t shove your opinions down the “other users” throat, it’s just nasty. I’m sorry you find my post annoying, you probably wouldn’t if you had a slights clue what I was even talking about… also, keep in mind that I’m not forced at all to quote just because you feel like I should, next time just be a little less paranoid.

Edited: I bet you won't see Moontalon running after me with a stick for calling him paranoid ~ ah!

[Statix]

I quite liked it. I remember reading the whole thing, and a video that Angry Joe did on Youtube and i was like "Whoooaa , slow down son, wuttt? how come i hadn't noticed that" . I brainstormed the whole thing for hours, and then i ended up replaying all 3 games on a Paragon shepard (my original character was a Renegade) , to watch all the dialogues and scenes that the indoctrination theory referenced as proof that Shepard was indoctrinated. That said, the endings were left satisfiable after the free Extended cut dlc, and more so after Leviathan DLC which explains the origins of Star Child and the Reapers.

Hmm, once again it's obvious I should have downloaded and installed all of the DLC before completing the game and not just the Extended Cut DLC. I really wanna experience those DLCs, but it's quite hard knowing how it's going to end. Even with my own ending.

Though, if the Starchild and Reapers were explained in the Leviathan DLC, I'm not even sure if I wanna experience it. Because it could ruin my epilogue.

Could have been yet another oversight, considering the amount of oversights the original endings had. Albeit a huge oversight.

All those things pointing to the Indoctrination Theory; that's quite a lot of oversights. It's probably one of the biggest coincidences in the history of coincidences that they all point to the same thing. I'll watch a 2-hour vid on YouTube about the Indoctrination Theory after the Extended Cut tomorrow, see what comes out of it.

I guess the question still stands, how can I know if I like a thread or not without freaking reading it?

That's actually quite easy.

.... and there we fucking go again.

You said again, so you knew the thing you were talking about had already happened, implying that you have already read this thread in the past.

[Mirve]

I had two main problems with it:

A) I don't really like it when protagonists have that sort of weakness. It's just a personal thing but I like the idea of the protagonist somehow being above the influence of the enemy.

B) There were points that I felt were seriously grasping at straws. For instance one of them was James asking if anyone else heard a hum while aboard the Normandy. A hum in the cargo bay of a space vessel? Surely not, no!

I don't really have a problem with people believing in the indoctrination theory, I just did not like it and did not want it to actually be what was happening in the game. If people want that to be their head cannon I'm good with that. lol

I'll give you that some points could have been a coincidence. My opinion differs on your A). I quite like it when the heroes aren't portrayed as demi-gods. It helps to feel connected to the characters. At least for me. Although surely there were some points that left you in doubt? His dreams (the oily shadows the Rachni queen references in the first game) , the whole scene when Shepard enters the Citadel for the last time. How the FUCK did Anderson get in there? Or the Illusive Man for that matter? It was awhile ago but im pretty sure i was the last man standing when Harbinger went over 9000. How come everyone that enters in contact with Reaper artifacts or technology gets Indoctrinated, except Shepard? The star child . I HATE it when they pull out stuff like this, introducing some sort of heavenly character to end the story .

[Nazrark]

In other news, Harrier I and Black Widow I. I should probably go buy a lottery ticket.

[Oerba Yun Fang]

Yeah there were things that didn't make sense but there were a lot of things that didn't make sense. And honestly, Anderson and TIM being up there isn't entirely outlandish. I think Anderson was with you when you started the final charge, so it's not entirely inconceivable that he somehow managed to get to the beam. And TIM was indoctrinated so it's entirely possible the Reapers simply brought him there beforehand, perhaps as a last line of defense if Shepard somehow managed to slip through. As for the dreams, seeing things in dreams that you've heard of isn't really strange.

[Mirve]

Anyways Statix, to end this "Ending" discussion, i'm sure the other frequent users are tired of seeing it =p , i definatly recommend at least buying the Leviathan DLC . It's the one "must buy" to provide some closure to the ending. The others are mostly irrelevant to the main plotline.

---------- Post added 2013-02-11 at 02:44 AM ----------

Yeah there were things that didn't make sense but there were a lot of things that didn't make sense. And honestly, Anderson and TIM being up there isn't entirely outlandish. I think Anderson was with you when you started the final charge, so it's not entirely inconceivable that he somehow managed to get to the beam. And TIM was indoctrinated so it's entirely possible the Reapers simply brought him there beforehand, perhaps as a last line of defense if Shepard somehow managed to slip through. As for the dreams, seeing things in dreams that you've heard of isn't really strange.

I very much doubt a guy in his mid 60's would be a match to Shepard, after all he/she had went through to get there. Still it definatly isn't inconceivable.

---------- Post added 2013-02-11 at 02:45 AM ----------

In other news, Harrier I and Black Widow I. I should probably go buy a lottery ticket.

I had the Harrier but not the Black Widow when i stopped playing MP. You're definatly having a lucky day =p

[Statix]

Sure, it's almost a year later. But people are still talking about the IT, so it has not been disproved yet. Nor confirmed of course.

Curious though, since I completed the game, can I play the Leviathan DLC with a post-ending but pre-Cerberus HQ mission save? Or does it have to be a save where you have not completed the game with yet?