[Megathread] Mass Effect 3

[Deleted]

You're asking him? You are Zaeed!

Clearly an impostor.
Execute him.

[rhorle]

If the goal was to avoid X from happening why in the name of fudge duckery would you wait until AFTER X has happen to prevent it? If X occurs then you have failed to achieve the goal.

Because the Reapers the Reapers have no emotional attachment to their mission. Their goal isn't about preventing conflict but finding a solution to the inevitable conflict. If something looked like it might stop the conflict they would have no problems with seeing if it was a "naturally evolving" solution after all these years.

---------- Post added 2013-03-30 at 12:52 PM ----------

Doesn't he come for free with the Cerberus pass in general?

Yes. So anyone with a new copy of Mass Effect 2 would have it included at no additional cost. Only those buying it second hand would have to pay to download his DLC.

[Statix]

Started reading "The Reaper’s Advocate".

I noticed something very interesting I hadn't noticed before:

3.3 The paragon ending involves controlling all synthetics

This is not true. The Catalyst always controlled the reapers, and never required Shepard or the Crucible’s intervention to do so. EDI would have easily been commandeered by the Catalyst to sabotage Shepard’s mission. There is also no mention anywhere in the game that the paragon ending would result in control over all synthetics; this is a rumor that grew its own legs within the community.

The Control option allows you to take control of all Reapers, but no other synthetics. If that option allows you to target just the Reapers, why then it is impossible to only destroy the Reapers, and leave all other synthetics unharmed, in the Destroy option?

[Deleted]

The Control option allows you to take control of all Reapers, but no other synthetics. If that option allows you to target just the Reapers, why then it is impossible to only destroy the Reapers, and leave all other synthetics unharmed, in the Destroy option?

Because the ending has its head up its own ass and people try to make sense of it.

[Puck]

Because the ending has its head up its own ass and people try to make sense of it.

Or maybe it's because smashing a computer to bits has a different effect then say, uploading a new program?

I'm pretty sure the article provides the answer anyway.

[Pony Soldier]

Or maybe it's because smashing a computer to bits has a different effect then say, uploading a new program?

I'm pretty sure the article provides the answer anyway.

it has a MASS effect.....im sorry carry on...

[Korgoth]

Yes. So anyone with a new copy of Mass Effect 2 would have it included at no additional cost. Only those buying it second hand would have to pay to download his DLC.

Or if you messed it up like I did. EA account on Bioware site went to my yahoo while my Steam account goes to my gmail and I bought it on Steam, so I got all the DLC tied into my EA account and the Pass tied into my Gmail...

The worst part is on Bioware's site it doesn't list the Zaeed DLC, it just lists the pass, and I didnt realize I was missing it until after I had already played through it like 5 times.

[rhorle]

The Control option allows you to take control of all Reapers, but no other synthetics. If that option allows you to target just the Reapers, why then it is impossible to only destroy the Reapers, and leave all other synthetics unharmed, in the Destroy option?

Different methods and different energy. Same reason why Red and Blue didn't change organic life. Control is sending out a "Upgrade" to the reapers and doesn't destroy anything. Think of it like the difference between a Neutron and a Fission bomb. Both are Nuclear weapons but both function in vastly different ways and if you can limit the explosive yield of the Neutron bomb can kill "organic" life with little non-organic destruction.

It also isn't clear how much of synthetic life gets destroyed. The only named examples are all examples that contain Reaper technology. Shepard, EDI, and the Geth all have some form of Reaper technology inside of them. Also who knows if Cerberus sold anything that integrated Reaper technology in it. There could be microwaves that no longer work cause their Reaper timer circuits got blown to bits.

We know that VI's are not destroyed by the Red ending because those are in practically every system in Mass Effect. They are even in weapons.

[Deleted]

and Kasumi is worth more than all of them

Never met her in ME2.

[RoboA]

and Kasumi is worth more than all of them

Agreed! its a shame there is not more of her in mass effect 3, i really like her.

[Puck]

Agreed! its a shame there is not more of her in mass effect 3, i really like her.

I don't, why the heck do we need a thief with no military experience to stop the Collectors?

[Mordin Solus]

well she is like a professional hacker and stuff from what we saw in ME 2 so i guess she would know how to make tech stuff or even infiltrate enemy lines with her cloacking device

[Very Tired]

I condone Fem Shep sleeping with Javik. Attempting to bring a species back from extinction is a noble cause.


Oh and the normal line of how Shepard will sleep with anyone or anything.

[Oerba Yun Fang]

I don't, why the heck do we need a thief with no military experience to stop the Collectors?

Because military experience isn't the only thing that makes someone useful. Look at Liara. She had no military experience and was very young (by Asari standards), but her expertise on the Protheans and her prowess with her biotics in combat made her useful.

Like Mordin said, Kasumi had a lot of experience with tech and infiltration, making her valuable to the squad. And she was clearly no stranger to combat, despite having no military experience (also like Liara).

[rhorle]

I don't, why the heck do we need a thief with no military experience to stop the Collectors?

Because she has tech experience and counts towards that role in the final mission of ME2. (http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/to...ndex/5855452/1)

Its odd to draw the line at "thief" when we also recruit an assassin, a tank-bred krogan, a geth, a Quarian with limited military experience. Kasumi wasn't a novice when it came to combat. She may have been a thief but she could also hold her own in combat. She is a stealth tech expert and that is certainly something worth while to stopping an enemy you don't know much about and need to gather information and eventually stop them.

[Nazrark]

In the "Reaper's Advocate". He states that most likely has to do with the Civilization Types. Where the entire Milky Way is essentially a Type 0 or Type 1 Civilization. The reapers come and extinguish life just as it becomes a Type 2 Civ. Keeping themselves in power. But the reason the Crucible is the way it is, the Crucible is a Type 3 Civ technology. It has the power to affect the entire galaxy in a moment. Being machines, the Reapers saw the only logical outcome was to surrender and allow Shepard to pick what he wanted to do.

What I really got from it was, the machines set out to make sure no organic civilization was able to get to a Type 2 civilization. But with the prevalence of a once thought destroyed weapon that was more technologically advanced than the Reapers (I.e a T3 tech). Surrender was the wisest course of action at that point, since right then he had them beat. He then left it to the only cycle to complete and deploy the weapon to decide what to do.

Sure the Reapers could of destroyed the Citadel. Destroying it would essentially free the Reapers and they would war against each other. A natural evolution of what happened to the Geth. There would be divides in choices and they would start fighting one another.

There was also the contingency that Liara was putting in place, finding worlds that would be the next rulers of the cycle(s) and leaving a whole library of technology for them to access. Uplifting them once they find it or can comprehend it. Altering the intended path of evolution that the Reapers would of wanted. Instead of taking thousands of years to rediscover new technology. They would be placed with the knowledge of how Mass Effect technology works, they (if given enough time) would turn into a force the Reapers could not fight. For instance, the races of the next cycle would not use the Relays and rely on FTL to get around. Looking to improve those systems. Build small scale relays to react with each other, planet to planet.

At that crucial moment, because of a chain of events. The 'leader' of the Reapers came to the conclusion that they had been beat. They would have to adapt their future strategy to combat the new era of the galaxy.

It's quite genius what came of this cycle. I'd imagine if Javik or Ilos' plan had succeeded. That the reapers would in turn find themselves the hunted. The Protheans themselves being at the cusp of becoming a Type 2 civilization.

[rhorle]

The reapers come and extinguish life just as it becomes a Type 2 Civ. Keeping themselves in power. But the reason the Crucible is the way it is, the Crucible is a Type 3 Civ technology.

The problem with that is that the civilization of a cycle created the Crucible. The type of a civilization would be irrelevant if a civilization could jump multiple types in technology they create. Sure its possible some fluke break through could create such a jump but it wouldn't explain why no other cycles have managed a "Reaper Killer" type 3 civ device. If it happened once that a type 1 jumped to type 3 tech it could happen again.

It is possible that the Crucible was a result of the Catalyst experimenting with a civilization allowing it to grow into a type two or three in order to see if they could maintain peace between organics and synthetics. But it just doesn't seem likely that the reapers divide civilizations into "types" and cull based on that. Besides Shepards cycle can't really be a type 1 if they can so easily create a type 3 device.

That would imply that the Crucible is type 2 level, or that the galaxy was already a type 2 civilization that allowed them to easily create a type 3 device.

[Elim Garak]

That article is nice but...

Reapers are type 3 civilization:
1. They operate on a galactic scale.
2. Mass Relay Transit System allows fast travel across the galaxy.
3. They tap into the power of Black Holes, ME Core is a mini Black Hole (singularity).
4. Their in-galaxy base of operations (Collectors' Base) was near the Super Massive Black Hole at the Galactic Core, which most certainly was their natural power source.

All other races in the galaxy are type-1 civilizations with type-2 (Citadel is effectively a mobile version of mini-Dyson sphere, Singularity based technology) and type-3 (Mass Relays) toys. These toys allow them to cheat to type-2 (Mass Effect) and even type-3 level.

Crucible is not type-3 device. It's just a power source - it needs a type-3 Relays and Citadel (which is a type-3 tech, considering everything it can be used for, not just Dyson thing) to do the job. It cannot affect the whole galaxy without Galactic Metro.
Effectively it's job could be done with multiple mini-Crucibles placed in place of every Mass Relay in the galaxy. Though it will require a type-3 civilization to do it in reasonable amount of time. But in the principle it will be same Crucibles. So in itself Crucible is not a type-3 technology.

[Statix]

Besides Shepards cycle can't really be a type 1 if they can so easily create a type 3 device.

I think this is actually explained in the game; Shepard's cycle was able to build the Crucible so easily because of the diversity. Because so many different races were working together to build it. As technologically advanced as the Protheans were, they did not have that diversity and that's why they struggled. It's the sabotage from within that lead directly to the failure, but it's the lack of diversity that was the cause.

As the guy said, we are a Type 0 civilization, but we already have Type 1 technology that affects the entire planet. If civilizations of a lesser type can't create technology of a higher type, how can technology ever advance? Before we are able to colonize planets, we first need to discover how. See it as driving a car; you are not yet allowed to drive (not part of a higher type), but you are driving a car (you do have technology that is of a higher type).

The diversity is this cycle's greatest strength. Each race has some other highly advanced technology. Combined with races of perhaps millions of cycles that came before the current cycle, they can create Type 3 technology.

The Crucible might not be Type 3 technology, but combined with the Citadel and the Mass Relays, it most definitely is. Alone, none can affect the entire galaxy, but combined, they have a reach that matches the galaxy. Wether the Reapers are Type 2 or 3, I can't say. It does make things rather interesting for Mass Effect 4. I got a lot more insight into the endings, and I must say, I am doubting if I should hold true to my epilogue (involving the IT). The Control option could play into ME4, that the new main character has to look for the Reapers, who have gone away since the events of ME3, to help defend the galaxy against a new Type 3 alien threat.

It would be pretty awesome to have Shepard return in the form of a Reaper, fighting against a new threat. Holy crap, the more I think about this... Aaah. Need to change underwear.

[rhorle]

I think this is actually explained in the game; Shepard's cycle was able to build the Crucible so easily because of the diversity. Because so many different races were working together to build it. As technologically advanced as the Protheans were, they did not have that diversity and that's why they struggled. It's the sabotage from within that lead directly to the failure, but it's the lack of diversity that was the cause.

The Protheans downfall had nothing to do with their lack of technological diversity. The Protheans even built a Crucible but were unable to deploy it so they didn't lack the ability to build advanced technology. The protheans also had many difference races working together so they didn't lack for diversity. Their downfall was because the culture and structure couldn't maintain its "strength" once the unified command structure was compromised. We know their technology and ability to "think and create" wasn't compromised at all because we learn of several last ditch attempts at saving themselves. Illos and Javik are proof that they could still fight the Reapers but didn't have the combined strength of the entire empire needed to defeat them. Also remember that the Prothean Cycle was only United to fight the Machine threat of their cycle. They protheans were essentially Romans. A mixture of diverse cultures combined under one central authority that behaved along one central doctrine.

The fate of the Protheans is a little ironic considering the Humans do essentially what the Protheans did. Humans united the Galaxy behind them in order to defend against the Reapers. Managed to convince several galactic powers to work together under the Systems Alliance direction instead of fragmenting into individual battles. The Humans managed to hold every one together when both the Citadel Council and Protheans failed.

But none of that has to do with what technological feats they can do. If you can create technology of a certain type then you have just moved yourself into that type category. That is the whole basis of what separates civilizations into the Kardashev scale in the first place. The act of creating the crucible has turned Humanity, at the very least, into a civilization of the same type as the crucible. Because they are able to harness and employ that type of technology. Or they will be on the cusp of becoming that type after knowing and learning how to build such technology of a different type.

In fact according to Michio Kaku the various races of Mass Effect are type 2 civilizations. I believe a world famous physicist over some random internet guy when dealing with civilization types. http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/f...-mass-effect-2


Humanities cycle was able to build the Crucible so easily because they had immense technological advancements, plans countless cycles have adapted and modified, and a cohesive centralized command that held together despite Reaper attempts to stop such centralized command. That is what the War Asset system was supposed to symbolize in ME3. The Centralized command being bolstered by individual elements. The crucible though was always a "human" project and run and controlled by the Humans. The other races did help out but it wasn't really diversity that allowed them to complete it.

Humanity's Will had a greater effect then diversity. The Will of Humans to survive and the scenarios that arise due to that intense will.