[Megathread] Mass Effect 3

[Adam Jensen]

Starting my fourth play-through, yet again as a fem shep >.<

Better voice actor IMO.

[rhorle]

Its not my story, i certainly didnt write or create it.
I simply choose which of their stories to watch.

You certainly did create the story. Bioware gave you the tools and options to create your own Story within the Mass Effect Trilogy. If you didn't create a story then you went all default options right? You didn't customize your characters looks at all right? You didn't kill anyone off right? You didn't import any save games that changed the next games experience from the default right? Because if you did any of that you just created a story different then the one Bioware created.

You can't choose what the epilogue is? Bioware gave you the Ultimate choice by letting you decide what the "happily ever after" was. You could have envisioned Liara sitting on a beach with blue babies, or the IT theory, or any other of numerous endings. An ending that fit the personal story you crafted over all of these years. It still ended the way Bioware wanted which but they left the epilogue to you.

[Confined]

Better voice actor IMO.

Male shep doesn't compare

[Grizzly Willy]

Eh, Femshep bothers me. Don't like her voice much.

[Rukh]

I assume the sun will rise here shortly. That's a fairly reasonable assumption I think given that it always does. I assume that my wife won't cheat on me because we've been married for all those years and she's happy and I've been a good husband. Reasonable assumptions are fine. Going off half cock and assuming that the world will end 2012 or that the stock market will crash tmmrw are extremely poor assumptions. Their are degrees that are valid.

---------- Post added 2012-08-04 at 10:51 AM ----------



Actually Vigil was a HUGE deus ex machina as far as ME 1 is concerned. He explained what the citadel was and gave you a way to get back to it in time to prevent Saren from letting the reapers get through. Without him it would have been over. Literally he was a machine of the gods (Protheans in this case) that determined the fate of the heroes and allowed them to over come an obstacle they normally wouldn't have been able to. Deus Ex Machinas aren't necesarilly plot twists.

A deus ex machina ( /ˈdeɪ.əs ɛks ˈmɑːkiːnə/ or /ˈdiːəs ɛks ˈmækɨnə/ day-əs eks mah-kee-nə;[1] Latin: "god from the machine"; plural: dei ex machina) is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object.

In this vase Vigil helps them figure out how to get back to the citadel in time to stop the reapers. Vigil himself is a new character who had proper context. The star child didn't have as much context when the game first came out. If you could investigate him in as much detail as you could with vigil then it wouldn't have been so bad.

What you claimed didn't fit the definition you quoted. It wasn't a miraculous resolution handed down from on high like the star child and the rand resolutions were, it was a plot twist. You were still following Saren, you would have gone through the portal still, you just wouldn't have the back story of what this thing was for. Vigil did not resolve a single thing, not one. He did give you a tool that made winning possible but that is not a resolution by any definition of the word. The star child literally handed you three resolutions out of the machine.

[Adam Jensen]

What you claimed didn't fit the definition you quoted. It wasn't a miraculous resolution handed down from on high like the star child and the rand resolutions were, it was a plot twist. You were still following Saren, you would have gone through the portal still, you just wouldn't have the back story of what this thing was for. Try again.

Actually, Shepard would have failed. Vigil gave Shepard a program to disrupt Sovereign's signal, which (s)he uses after defeating Saren (the first time, unless he shoots himself.)

[Doozerjun]

Better voice actor IMO.

I've gone through twice, once as fem shep and the other as male shep. I prefer male shep. Seems to fit the story better in my opinion.

[Myobi]

You certainly did create the story.

Is... is .... is this true Gravath??!?!
Now I fucking know who to fucking blame for Legion death, you fucking....

I'll find out where you sleep, you just wait.

[Glorious Leader]

I don't consider synthesis the best ending. Not by a long shot. Synthesis is a decision that's carried out on the part of one man that alters the life of everything and everyone and it was taken entirely undemocratically. It is arguably extremely fascit imo because you've just imposed your will on the entire galaxy. Control IMO is the better ending. Especially if you were a paragon Shep.

Having said that, the control ending is more or less what the Illusive man is after. So that brings me to a question. If paragon shep takes the control ending and is good and uses the reapers to rebuild things what does that say about the Illusive man? Can we make a moral judgement about him with any certainty?

---------- Post added 2012-08-05 at 06:42 AM ----------

Actually, Shepard would have failed. Vigil gave Shepard a program to disrupt Sovereign's signal, which (s)he uses after defeating Saren (the first time, unless he shoots himself.)

It's fairly clear in general I think he would have failed if not for Vigil. Vigil was clutch.

[Oerba Yun Fang]

Also, anyone tried the High res textures ?

For ME1? I did and they're pretty buggy.

[Gravath]

Is... is .... is this true Gravath??!?!
Now I fucking know who to fucking blame for Legion death, you fucking....

I'll find out where you sleep, you just wait.

I may have had some effect on the story...
But Rhorle doesnt seem to grasp that Bioware just gave us different versions of the same story we could choose from.
Alternate universes so to speak.
In the end, Nihlus died. Saren almost took control of the citadel. We died. We worked for TIM. We killed the collectors. Our teams are already picked by Bioware and we can choose 2 of them per mission instead of BRINGING ALL OF THEM! yadda yadda.
Its biowares story because we cant change the plot, we are simply the puppet with one loose string to move his arm freely but still have to dance to the puppeteers will.
And we dont have a squadmate using his omniblade to impale the enemies hearts ripping it out and handing it over to the assault trooper behind him... err i mean, create our own teams or execute any of them at will.

If paragon shep takes the control ending and is good and uses the reapers to rebuild things what does that say about the Illusive man? Can we make a moral judgement about him with any certainty?

TIM is a anti-hero quite simply.
He does anything, even cruel and "evil" things, to protect and strengthen the human race and will go any lengths to do that.
He sacrifised too much and ventured too far and touched the forbidden fruit, corrupting him without him realising it, turning him against what he once shielded.
He was right all along, but the way he went about it led to his downfall and in the end he realises that he himself is a liability and a risk to what he dedicated his life to protecting and offs himself - leaving Shepard to save the human race in his stead.


TIM is a tragic hero in his own right.

[Sekira]

Also, anyone tried the High res textures ?

High res textures?

[Adam Jensen]

Having said that, the control ending is more or less what the Illusive man is after. So that brings me to a question. If paragon shep takes the control ending and is good and uses the reapers to rebuild things what does that say about the Illusive man? Can we make a moral judgement about him with any certainty?

There are two differences between Shep and TIM. First, TIM's methods to achieve control were brutal, barbaric and evil. Secondly, he would not have used the Reapers to protect those who can't protect themselves and defend the galaxy, but to control and probably terrorize the galaxy into obeying his and Cerberus's rule.

[Yakobro]

There are two differences between Shep and TIM. First, TIM's methods to achieve control were brutal, barbaric and evil. Secondly, he would not have used the Reapers to protect those who can't protect themselves and defend the galaxy, but to control and probably terrorize the galaxy into obeying his and Cerberus's rule.

TBH, all sounds alot like renegade shep

[Gravath]

TBH, all sounds alot like renegade shep

Well Cerberus have always done what they think is right in the way that they think is right which usually involves alot of guns.
Perfect for renegade shep.

[Rukh]

Actually, Shepard would have failed. Vigil gave Shepard a program to disrupt Sovereign's signal, which (s)he uses after defeating Saren (the first time, unless he shoots himself.)

Yes he probably would have, but that's still not a deus ex machina device.

[Glorious Leader]

I may have had some effect on the story...
But Rhorle doesnt seem to grasp that Bioware just gave us different versions of the same story we could choose from.
Alternate universes so to speak.
In the end, Nihlus died. Saren almost took control of the citadel. We died. We worked for TIM. We killed the collectors. Our teams are already picked by Bioware and we can choose 2 of them per mission instead of BRINGING ALL OF THEM! yadda yadda.
Its biowares story because we cant change the plot, we are simply the puppet with one loose string to move his arm freely but still have to dance to the puppeteers will.
And we dont have a squadmate using his omniblade to impale the enemies hearts ripping it out and handing it over to the assault trooper behind him... err i mean, create our own teams or execute any of them at will.



TIM is a anti-hero quite simply.
He does anything, even cruel and "evil" things, to protect and strengthen the human race and will go any lengths to do that.
He sacrifised too much and ventured too far and touched the forbidden fruit, corrupting him without him realising it, turning him against what he once shielded.
He was right all along, but the way he went about it led to his downfall and in the end he realises that he himself is a liability and a risk to what he dedicated his life to protecting and offs himself - leaving Shepard to save the human race in his stead.


TIM is a tragic hero in his own right.

The game has always been that way. The game has literally always been adult choose your own adventure in space. I don't understand why you've come to this sudden realization in mass effect 3?? In fact almost every Bioware game has followed this model. Having said that the game is still unique to you which is great. Yea it's limited but it's limited by the tech of our times. Imagine if they could make a game that let you write the story of mass effect. To be honest I'd love to see what you guys could come up with.

As for TIM you've sorta hit the problem I have with TIM. I see nothing wrong with his mission to control the reapers inherently because I don't think we should deny ourselves useful tools or progress because of the possibility that something bad will happen. However TIM's motives are sketchy clearly. It's one thing to say I do this for humanity, it's another to say I do this for humanity above all else. Basically "die menschlikt uber alles" (forgive my poor german ). Nationalism for the germans and in the case of the Illusive man speciesism. Now in principle Nationalism isn't bad but when Nationalism is a form of power worship or used to gain power at the expense of everyone else who isn't human or a German then yea it's bad. Speciesism I feel is the same. It's okay if you like being a human but why does he have to be a human above all else and have humanity dominate above all else? That's the problem I have with TIM.

---------- Post added 2012-08-05 at 11:58 AM ----------

Yes he probably would have, but that's still not a deus ex machina device.

How is it not? He came out of nowhere and provided them the means to succeed that they would not have been able to do without. I mean if that's not deus ex then neither is the star child, he did the exact same thing.

[Gravath]

So that alien races wont threaten to wipe out his own race.
Considering what the krogans have done, and how the batarians are, and that there will always be some unknown dangers, its a very valid goal in life to strenghten ones own race.
One cant hide behind peace because it wont protect from anyone that decides to go against it.
And no treaty on a piece of paper can keep people from being killed.
Only power can deter.

[rhorle]

Having said that, the control ending is more or less what the Illusive man is after. So that brings me to a question. If paragon shep takes the control ending and is good and uses the reapers to rebuild things what does that say about the Illusive man? Can we make a moral judgement about him with any certainty?

Control isn't something that is inherently evil, none of the options are. Motive is everything, and the Illusive Man had evil motives for controlling the Reapers. Yes he wanted to stop them but he wanted to make himself and by extension Humanity into Gods. His whole quest from ME1 to ME3 was create the ultimate super soldier so he could elevate humanity to the only true power.

I don't think any option is Paragon or Renegade. While the EC option of do nothing is an exception I still think Bioware picked Red, Blue and Green because of those are the primary colors in a RGB color table. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RGB_color_model). And that is the method that we, in real life, use for display any digital colors.

Yellow, the do nothing option, doesn't fit as one of the Primary colors but is still part of the table obviously since any known color works. Perhaps it is fitting though since do nothing isn't a choice of the Catalyst/Crucible and thus doesn't interact with the digital/computer systems of the Citadel.

---------- Post added 2012-08-05 at 08:27 AM ----------

I may have had some effect on the story...
But Rhorle doesnt seem to grasp that Bioware just gave us different versions of the same story we could choose from.
Alternate universes so to speak.

So how is an alternate universe not a different story? Two people can play all 3 mass effect games and have a different story to them. Yes the core things are all the same but you can pick who lives and dies and other such things. That is creating your own story. You even admit that we create our own stories because that is the only way that Bioware can give different versions of the same story.

We can't experience different versions if we don't have the power to choose what story we see. Just because you can't do what ever the heck you want doesn't mean you aren't creating a story with the tools Bioware provided you. The did provide you that ability to do whatever you want with the endings though, something you've said you didn't like and is poor story telling.

So perhaps that is why Bioware didn't give you the ability to rip out hearts and eat them? Because it would be poor story telling, let alone impossible from a technological standpoint, to allow everything in the game to be Open Ended. So they allow you to create your own story with in their story and provide you the tools to do that. You can pick to shove someone out the tower's window, if you shoot a tank of explosive gas to blow a rambling krogan to bits, if you learn about your crew so they don't all die.

[Glorious Leader]

Control isn't something that is inherently evil, none of the options are. Motive is everything, and the Illusive Man had evil motives for controlling the Reapers. Yes he wanted to stop them but he wanted to make himself and by extension Humanity into Gods. His whole quest from ME1 to ME3 was create the ultimate super soldier so he could elevate humanity to the only true power.

I don't think any option is Paragon or Renegade. While the EC option of do nothing is an exception I still think Bioware picked Red, Blue and Green because of those are the primary colors in a RGB color table. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RGB_color_model). And that is the method that we, in real life, use for display any digital colors.

Yellow, the do nothing option, doesn't fit as one of the Primary colors but is still part of the table obviously since any known color works. Perhaps it is fitting though since do nothing isn't a choice of the Catalyst/Crucible and thus doesn't interact with the digital/computer systems of the Citadel.[COLOR="red"]

I think synthesis is inherently evil. Even if you go into that with the best of intentions your effectively telling the whole galaxy you will bend to my will and theirs nothing you can do about it.

As for RGB and why they picked the colors I just figured it was because those were primary colors. I didn't give it more than a seconds thought outside of that really. I mean if it was aqua or fuchsia who cares.