1. #11161
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravath View Post
    "It had robots so they hinted at synthesis!"
    No fucking no.
    Synthesis was never meant to happen, dark energy ending was meant to happen where you had to choose between sacrifising the humanity to utilize the reapers, or killing the reapers and (try to) deal with it on your own but they turned around in ME3.
    Stop pulling for straws obnoxiously for something wrong.
    did I say because of robots? That is equally as stupid as saying Dark energy because of a leak on the internet. The fact still remains that besides the reapers there were 3 main stories playing out in the Mass Effect Games. The Krogan, The geth and Quarians, and Cerberus. All came to a close in Mass Effect 3 and all were related to the endings.

    The Destroy ending is reflected in the Krogan story. A Culture being nearly wiped up and changed drastically because of someone else and them fighting for survival and coming back from the brink to rediscover themselves. Something everyone will have to do in the Red Ending.

    The Blue ending is reflected in Cerberus drive to create the ultimate super soldiers and eliminate everything else but the leaders will. Even in ME1 we saw Cerberus trying to attain this goal through the study of husks and how to adapt it to something they could use. It ultimately comes to a head with TIM attempting just that. But of course we learn it was doomed to fail because he was indoctrinated. Still a sound theory. Cerberus also touches upon synthesis in creating hybrid lifeforms in its soldiers.

    Then we have the Quarian versus Geth conflict. It is more central to the over all conflict of the reapers but it also shows the troubles both sides have with coexisting together. All through out Mass Effect we are told AI's are bad but are also introduced to a good AI that isn't trying to kill us through EDI. The resolution of the Geth Quarian conflict shows us that peaceful coexistence is possible and that the Quarians have already done what is done in the synthesis ending. They find that allowing geth to combine with them (through their suits) they are going to be able to remove their suits in years rather then centuries. We also have EDI and Liara thinking about the exact thing that happens in the green ending.

    You can call me wrong all you want but the thing remains that everything I say is reflected in the game. Where as everything you are saying is only reflected in a leak from an ex-bioware employee.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-17 at 04:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Muzual View Post
    Starchild and the nightmare scenes you have to do are the only things I sincerely dislike about ME3. I know Shepard is human, but it bothers me that the "super badass renegade" you spend two games building who "takes no sh*t" is plagued by the memory of ONE dead child. It's not even like it was gruesome, he didn't see the child's corpse. It's a shame and I don't like it. (The scenes themselves are an absolute bore to go through)
    How else do you want them to reflect the psychological effect the invasion is having on Shepard? Even for the most bad ass Shepard it still is a powerful event that he wasn't able to stop. The dreams if you listen to the voices and stuff are all about Shepard questioning his decisions and himself. It could be the Reapers trying to indoctrinate him, it could be TIM trying to control him through something he did when Shepard was rebuilt. It could just be Shepard starting to feel the pressure of his job.

    Or it could just be a silly nightmare that has no real meaning. As for star child remember he still is trying to continue the cycle. He can't just refuse because he is still a program and the Crucible has forced him into 4 new paths that must happen. Destroy, Control, Synthesis, or Failure. Perhaps the Catalyst was able to read Shepards mind and took the form of something that has been bothering him in order to try to break him so the Failure option happens.

    Or maybe the Catalyst was the Child all along and was never real back on earth. But a projection or hologram of some sort used as a psychological weapon against Shepard because of important he was to stopping the Reapers in the previous two games. There are plenty of things not explained but things don't have to always be explained in order for them to be something other then bad.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2012-11-17 at 09:52 PM.
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  2. #11162
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    The Dark Energy ain't reflected.... wut?
    It has a mention in the game, but so does plenty of other things. It's importance as an ending is only because of a leak that happened prior to the launch of the game. It was never a major theme of 1-3. It might be the major theme in 4 though. Or a future DLC.

    http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_energy
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  3. #11163
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Anywho, the whole "dark energy" package is way more plausible than "we kill you so you don't kill yourself"

  4. #11164
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    Anywho, the whole "dark energy" package is way more plausible than "we kill you so you don't kill yourself"
    How so? The only reason why our technology is using Dark Energy is because of the Reapers guiding us towards that. So we kill you so you don't kill yourself is less acceptable then "We kill you because you are using what we wanted you to use"?

    " According to Karpyshyn, "The Reapers as a whole were 'nations' of people who had fused together in the most horrific way possible to help find a way to stop the spread of the Dark Energy. The real reason for the Human Reaper was supposed to be the Reapers saving throw because they had run out of time. Humanity in Mass Effect is supposedly unique because of its genetic diversity and represented the universe's best chance at stopping Dark Energy's spread."http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/17086/mass-effect-writer-drew-karpyshyn-reveals-original-mass-effect-3-endings

    So they came in peace to help us stop the spread of Dark Energy, but decided to kill us in order to help us? If they ran out of time in ME2 why didn't the universe end before ME3? Why is humanities genetics the only thing capable of stopping the threat of dark energy? Why would the reapers kill what has the best chance of solving the problem?The Dark energy ending wasn't perfect nor better. It is only better because it is something you didn't get to have and don't like the current endings.

    If you were an employee that just got fired or lay off how would you get your revenge on a company? I'd leak to the press an ending completely different so rabid fans would go crazy over it then get disappointed when it turned out to not be what they were getting.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2012-11-17 at 10:22 PM.
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  5. #11165
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    No.

    They didn't come in peace.

    The way I see it is this:

    1. They have a Dark Energy problem that is killing the galaxy.
    2. They couldn't find solution themselves.
    3. They sacrificed themselves into a reaper (Harbinger). The whole race into one reaper (We are each a nation).
    4. The collective mind couldn't solve the problem either.
    5. So they devised the plan.

    The plan:
    As the galaxy is going down no matter who lives in it - they decided to make use of "diversity or life" assuming that maybe some new species will be able to find or at least get a clue to the problem.
    They spread Relays (building new and rearranging the existing ones) in such a pattern that they are to be found by new races and thus make them to use this technology and to improve upon it - maybe find The Problem and try to solve it.
    Reapers (at first just one) would oversee this for 50000 years (that is deemed enough for existing pre-space species to reach the required tech level). At the end of the timer - they will either get a solution to the problem or will have to start a new.
    Thus the cycle of harvesting started.
    Harvesting:
    If current cycle failed to deliver the solution - Reapers would find the species with the most potential and turn it into a new reaper to add to their collective mind - to their "science lab" to help with "The Problem Project". All other species (space faring species that participated in the cycle) are erased. New species (currently around the cavemen age) are given a chance to evolve and develop in the new cycle.

    Reasoning behind the cycles:
    1. Can't let new species just use the technology that damages the galaxy.
    2. The whole "diversity of life" principle. New species may have better results.
    3. Adding the best species of the cycle into the "science lab".

    How games fit in:
    1. In ME1 we encounter the technology and Reapers - nothing is known yet. But we learn that Reapers wipe out species and every trace of species - so no one will know anything happening - that is in support of their goal - letting species evolve naturally (letting them stay pure) and then in the path chosen for them (Relays - are a test - with Citadel being the finish line. shows that species have cracked the problem tech and ripe for harvest).
    2. In ME2 we encounter The Problem at the Haelstrom.
    3. In ME2 we see how reapers build the new reaper out of humans - as they deem humans the best species of the cycle.
    4. They are so astonished with Humans so they build the Human-looking reaper - against the tradition.
    5. In ME3 Bioware takes a Starchild turn. But at least we can see the Harvest in the process.

    Now Starchild plan can be surmised like this:
    1. You have 50000 to enjoy this pretty galaxy (Arbitrary number - they could've just waited for the Synthetics problem - that is Synthetics wiping out the life in the galaxy - and then intervene).
    2. When we kill you and make a reaper out of you (why the fuck do they need this in Starchild scenario? It would lead to infinite number of reapers thus they wouldn't fit into the dark space between galaxies)
    3. They erase all the traces of previous species (at least they try really hard - but why? what's up with the secrecy? Unless you want to avoid the spoiling of new species thus failing the "Dark Energy" scenario - but this is not the "dark energy" scenario - they could as well just orbit each habitable planet for 50000 years ticking aloud every second).
    4. Mysterious Crucible
    5. Starchild
    6. Magic.

  6. #11166
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    Have to say, the Dark Energy idea sounds a lot more plausible.

  7. #11167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muzual View Post
    Starchild and the nightmare scenes you have to do are the only things I sincerely dislike about ME3. I know Shepard is human, but it bothers me that the "super badass renegade" you spend two games building who "takes no sh*t" is plagued by the memory of ONE dead child. It's not even like it was gruesome, he didn't see the child's corpse. It's a shame and I don't like it. (The scenes themselves are an absolute bore to go through)
    They are kind of boring but I can see how a child could affect Shepard, since she usually kills adults who have lived their lives and have made mistakes, not innocent children.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 01:02 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    Why would I become a fucking cyborg after being hit by a green space magical wave?
    Because magic.
    Putin khuliyo

  8. #11168
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    Why would I become a fucking cyborg after being hit by a green space magical wave?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...NCxoO9s#t=185s

    http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Crucible

    It is odd though that you are fine with a magical wave controlling every reaper in the galaxy or destroy every reaper in the galaxy (with no harmful radiation to anyone else). There are plenty of things that aren't based on reality in Mass Effect 3 but they are possible within the confines of the Mass Effect Universe.
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  9. #11169
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    The wave of energy could be either a command signal or an electrical overload in the control and destroy options. I'm not necessarily sure what the green wave could be described as.

    Not to say that I hate the endings, mind you.

  10. #11170
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    Harvesting:
    If current cycle failed to deliver the solution - Reapers would find the species with the most potential and turn it into a new reaper to add to their collective mind - to their "science lab" to help with "The Problem Project". All other species (space faring species that participated in the cycle) are erased. New species (currently around the cavemen age) are given a chance to evolve and develop in the new cycle.
    So how exactly does the "Genetic Diversity" of humans make them the most suitable to finding the end to the problem of Dark Energy? Humans certainly aren't the most advanced species which points to the problem of Dark Energy not being a technological one but of genetics.

    Why would the Reapers kill humans in order to reach that goal. Why not approach them peacefully? Wouldn't it have made more sense to assimilate everyone given that the Reapers have no known limit in resources or storage space? Also why erase all traces if your goal is to get someone to solve the problem. Wouldn't you leave behind information that could actually help? Instead of just letting people see nothing until it is time for you to come and destroy them? Remember that the sun at Haelstrom never would have been noticed if the normal Reaper cycle happened. It only appeared due to the delay of the cycle by 3 or so years.

    And again how is "killing you because you'd be killed eventually" any better then "killing you so you don't kill yourself"? You keep making the current ending into a joke while failing to see the Dark Ending for what it is. Something filled with just as many if not more holes. It isn't better then the current ones that is for sure. And the Human proto reaper looked the way it did in Mass Effect 2 because it wasn't finished. All Reapers look the same once their outer shell is in place and they are finished. They all look different underneath. http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/File:Wcb6ug.png


    We know that the Reapers erase all existence of past cycles so no one is prepared to defend against them. This is why we see that even in a failed ending Liara and her drones lead to an ending of the cycle. And why the Prothean ruins lead to the Defeat of sovereign and the reapers (through various VI's, repository information, tech, and the crucible plans). If any universe wide problem existed it is counter productive to cull people every 50,000 years and erase all traces. You would at least plant the seed of the problem you want fixed to focus them on that task.

    Also if you look over the actual paste bin of the leak you will find that there were still going to be ending choices like there was now. And the that Omega DLC was part of the leaked script. And Dark Space filling up in one ending but not another? Each ending would presumably have infinite Reapers. Because both endings reasons for the Cycle wouldn't have been solved regardless. As remember the leaked ending didn't have the problem being solved just Shepard sacrificing Humanity or the Reapers.

    Both endings employ Space Magic. Both endings would have had the Catalyst. Dark Energy or a wave of energy (that presumably pulls from Dark energy since that is what the relays draw upon as stated with the Alpha Relay). It is still "space magic". The most amusing thing of all is that the current ending would have still fit even with "because of Dark energy".
    Last edited by rhorle; 2012-11-18 at 08:25 AM.
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  11. #11171
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    Anywho, the whole "dark energy" package is way more plausible than "we kill you so you don't kill yourself"
    You aren't looking at the bigger picture. The reapers don't prevent individual races from going extinct, they prevent organic life as a whole from going extinct. They are a galaxy wide form of a natural extinction event, they remove old organisms and make room for new ones to take their place, in that way they preserve organic life and allow its continued existence.

  12. #11172
    The dark energy plot is more plausible and hinted at throughout the whole series. The reason it got dropped was most likely due to most of the writers leaving Mass Effect.

    http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/so...ers.250066288/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dezerte View Post
    The dark energy plot is more plausible and hinted at throughout the whole series. The reason it got dropped was most likely due to most of the writers leaving Mass Effect.

    http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/so...ers.250066288/
    Pretty sure it was only mentioned twice or so.

  14. #11174
    Quote Originally Posted by The EagleOwl Mage View Post
    Pretty sure it was only mentioned twice or so.
    Apart from the link I provided here's a few hints that I remember:

    * Mordin pointing out the genetic diversity in humans in Mass Effect 2
    * Haestrom in Mass Effect 2
    * The Human Reaper in Mass Effect 2
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  15. #11175
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So how exactly does the "Genetic Diversity" of humans make them the most suitable to finding the end to the problem of Dark Energy? Humans certainly aren't the most advanced species which points to the problem of Dark Energy not being a technological one but of genetics.
    Humans develop fast and adapt better than others. They might be not the most technologically developed species in the cycle - but sure have the most potential. According to reapers - it's not my assessment. They know better.
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Why would the Reapers kill humans in order to reach that goal. Why not approach them peacefully? Wouldn't it have made more sense to assimilate everyone given that the Reapers have no known limit in resources or storage space? Also why erase all traces if your goal is to get someone to solve the problem. Wouldn't you leave behind information that could actually help? Instead of just letting people see nothing until it is time for you to come and destroy them? Remember that the sun at Haelstrom never would have been noticed if the normal Reaper cycle happened. It only appeared due to the delay of the cycle by 3 or so years.
    Peacefully? Like "Hi hunams, care to join our fleet of reapers? All you need to do is - die." Do not forget - they are half machines - they chose the most efficient way in time limited situation. If species failed the cycle (didn't notice Haelstrom in time) - they need to die so new species would emerge. What kind of peaceful solution could achieve this? None.
    Erasing all the traces - I explained. So species would develop naturally - without artifacts. Which tend to portray Reapers as REAPERS. They are but they are for the better good - revealing themselves early thru artifacts - would ruin the cycle. Because species would focus on defeating them rather than on the problem. Also natural development leads them to relays and then to Citadel - the "mouse trap". This is the plan. Imagine species finding "Liara's message" and breaking the cycle - the galaxy would be doomed.
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    And again how is "killing you because you'd be killed eventually" any better then "killing you so you don't kill yourself"? You keep making the current ending into a joke while failing to see the Dark Ending for what it is. Something filled with just as many if not more holes. It isn't better then the current ones that is for sure. And the Human proto reaper looked the way it did in Mass Effect 2 because it wasn't finished. All Reapers look the same once their outer shell is in place and they are finished. They all look different underneath. http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/File:Wcb6ug.png
    First of all I'm not talking just about endings. I didn't see Dark Energy scenario endings. And leaked info is hardly enough to make a judgement.
    Second, It's not "we kill you because you get killed anyway" - it's "we kill you to save the galaxy". "you exist because we allow it - you will die because we demand it". Reapers sacrificed themselves to allow new species to emerge. They surely do not need to explain themselves why they are exterminating the failure species.
    There are no holes whatsoever. The whole thing is pretty logical. Cultivate new species, if they fail, erase them and cultivate new. Save the most potential species though and add them to the "science lab". The search for the solution was on two fronts: reapers in the "science lab" and new species. Each cycle increases the chances to find a solution. If it is at all possible.
    As for reaper-larva - that doesn't change a thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    We know that the Reapers erase all existence of past cycles so no one is prepared to defend against them. This is why we see that even in a failed ending Liara and her drones lead to an ending of the cycle. And why the Prothean ruins lead to the Defeat of sovereign and the reapers (through various VI's, repository information, tech, and the crucible plans). If any universe wide problem existed it is counter productive to cull people every 50,000 years and erase all traces. You would at least plant the seed of the problem you want fixed to focus them on that task.
    They planted the seed of the problem - The Technology, thru relays and Citadel. Are you paying attention at all? Or should I just stop?
    They erased species for two purposes - preserving the purity of new species and making it more easier to cull the failed ones. They are not stupid. Just because one of the purposes is present in both scenarious - doesn't mean shit. In fact "easier culling" purpose is more fitting the "Dark Energy" scenario - because in "Starchild" scenario reapers are not limited in time - they could've just combed the galaxy checking in every square light-millisecond and kill everyone - if they wanted to. They could've just orbited the habitable planets - you know, I mentioned it in last post. They couldv'e go the Ur-Quan way from Star Control 2. And Shield all the planets with life. So even if synthetics are developed - they would be automatically quarantined and then destroyed by reapers. Does "Starchild" scenario still make sense to you? If not think about this: take reapers goal and devise YOUR solution. Is it the same as Starchild's? Couldn't you come up with BETTER one?
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Also if you look over the actual paste bin of the leak you will find that there were still going to be ending choices like there was now. And the that Omega DLC was part of the leaked script. And Dark Space filling up in one ending but not another? Each ending would presumably have infinite Reapers. Because both endings reasons for the Cycle wouldn't have been solved regardless. As remember the leaked ending didn't have the problem being solved just Shepard sacrificing Humanity or the Reapers.
    And I'm not talking bout endings. Not about those choices. I was fine with choices - it's the explanation of the premise that have blown my mind. It's like I was reading a book (a trilogy) and at the end of the book three author goes "Forget what you've read so far, it's all false and unimportant - here's what this is all about".
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Both endings employ Space Magic. Both endings would have had the Catalyst. Dark Energy or a wave of energy (that presumably pulls from Dark energy since that is what the relays draw upon as stated with the Alpha Relay). It is still "space magic". The most amusing thing of all is that the current ending would have still fit even with "because of Dark energy".
    Yes, it is. But more plausible one. So we are back to my initial point.

    P.S. Consider Starchild scenario and answer these questions:
    1. Why did Sovereign need to WAKE the Reapers? Don't they have like an ALARM CLOCK set to 50000 years?
    2. Why Reapers needed keepers to wake them? Look p.1.
    3. Reapers failed to prevent Geth, why? Why didn't Sovereign destroy them? Why did he took control of them instead?
    4. Javik in ME3 tells a tale of their own Synthetics and the war which Proteans won. Where the fuck were Reapers? Why didn't they give that cycle another chance?
    5. Why not a peaceful solution? Like "Hi Hunams/Arasis/Tuniars/Saralians/Whatever, don't build AI, please. thank you in advance".
    6. Why reapers sleep in dark space? Why do they need to limit the usage of Dark Energy Tech of their Cores? Boggles the mind.
    Last edited by Elim Garak; 2012-11-18 at 12:12 PM.

  16. #11176
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dezerte View Post
    Apart from the link I provided here's a few hints that I remember:

    * Mordin pointing out the genetic diversity in humans in Mass Effect 2
    * Haestrom in Mass Effect 2
    * The Human Reaper in Mass Effect 2
    A link to a leak of what could have happened isn't mention to the game. Not withstanding the fact the forum page you link to doesn't show anything behind the spoiler tags and the original SomethingAwful thread linked to later is behind a paid subscription barrier.

    Genetic Diversity has nothing to do with Dark energy so isn't mention of it. The Human Reaper isn't directly because of Dark Energy so is again something that has nothing to do with the plot of Dark Energy. The only thing that has to do with Dark Energy that you listed from the games before ME3 is Haestrom. Eezo, Biotics, FTL, Relays etc all use Dark Energy or create it to perform their tasks. That really isn't a major theme though anymore then Krogan Headbutts is. Krogan's would only defeat the reapers with a Headbutt if Theldurin was telling the story.
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    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Genetic Diversity has nothing to do with Dark energy so isn't mention of it. The Human Reaper isn't directly because of Dark Energy so is again something that has nothing to do with the plot of Dark Energy. The only thing that has to do with Dark Energy that you listed from the games before ME3 is Haestrom. Eezo, Biotics, FTL, Relays etc all use Dark Energy or create it to perform their tasks. That really isn't a major theme though anymore then Krogan Headbutts is.
    It didn't need to be the major theme. These were the clues hidden right before our eyes. It's this thing called the reaper mystery that supposed to be revealed in ME3. This is a work of good writers at its finest. These are just pieces to the puzzle. If you consider the "dark energy" reveal in ME3 instead of Starchild all these little "unimportant" pieces fall into their respective places. And you get this: "wait a minute, it all makes sense now" sensation. Instead of "wtf happened to the story of ME1 and ME2?" excuse of a sensation.

    It just makes sense. I can't believe we are arguing about it.

  18. #11178
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    A link to a leak of what could have happened isn't mention to the game. Not withstanding the fact the forum page you link to doesn't show anything behind the spoiler tags and the original SomethingAwful thread linked to later is behind a paid subscription barrier.

    Genetic Diversity has nothing to do with Dark energy so isn't mention of it. The Human Reaper isn't directly because of Dark Energy so is again something that has nothing to do with the plot of Dark Energy. The only thing that has to do with Dark Energy that you listed from the games before ME3 is Haestrom. Eezo, Biotics, FTL, Relays etc all use Dark Energy or create it to perform their tasks. That really isn't a major theme though anymore then Krogan Headbutts is. Krogan's would only defeat the reapers with a Headbutt if Theldurin was telling the story.
    It's just as much a theme as "Synthetics vs. Organics".

    To clarify: the Dark Energy plot was one of the intended endings that were on the table, and there were most definitely hints at it throughout Mass Effect 1 & 2. Why it wasn't picked as the ending for ME3 we'll never know.
    Last edited by Dezerte; 2012-11-18 at 04:31 PM.
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  19. #11179
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    Humans develop fast and adapt better than others. They might be not the most technologically developed species in the cycle - but sure have the most potential. According to reapers - it's not my assessment. They know better.
    Right, but you are making a claim for it supporting Dark Energy. Rather then just being a trait of Humanity that sets them apart from everyone else. Why would Genetic Diversity be better to solve the problem of the universe being destroyed from Dark Energy? It has to be the universe because the Reapers are capable of inter galactic travel. Why would they care if the Milky Way gets destroyed when they could just move somewhere else?

    Why is it okay for Bioware to say "Oh because the reapers know better no other explanation" and not "Oh an energy wave does it and no other explanation". You are willing to accept one "Just because" but not another. I'm not asking for you to write the story that Bioware would have but in order for you to explain and show how the leaked ending is far superior then the actual ME3 ending you have to be able to answer these things other then "Just because I said so".

    Peacefully? Like "Hi hunams, care to join our fleet of reapers? All you need to do is - die." Do not forget - they are half machines - they chose the most efficient way in time limited situation. If species failed the cycle (didn't notice Haelstrom in time) - they need to die so new species would emerge. What kind of peaceful solution could achieve this? None.
    Peaceful like telling the galaxy what the problem is and if they have any off the wall ideas on how to fix the problem. You know actually seeing if they can help before erasing them from existence and then finding out if they can help. And Haestrom was noticed at least 300 years prior to the end of the Cycle. The Quarians had a scientific outpost there to study the unstable sun but were forced out by the Geth Rebellion. Hmm a synthetic vs Organic conflict causing troulbe perhaps the current ME3 ending is on to something... http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Haestrom and http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Dholen

    They planted the seed of the problem - The Technology, thru relays and Citadel. Are you paying attention at all? Or should I just stop?
    You should just stop. Because use of Eezo creates Dark Energy. Use of FTL, Biotics, Mass Relays all create Dark Energy. Then we have the Reapers themselves using a Relay that requires a super large amount of Dark Energy in order for them to use it. Why would the Reapers populate the galaxy and have every cycle use technology that would cause a problem.

    This also raises the question on how the Reapers counter act the effect of each cycles usage. Each cycle would be generating and adding to the problem of Dark Energy. Why would the reapers add to the problem in order to stop the problem? Eventually the Reapers own actions with the cycles would cause the galaxy to be destroyed by Dark Energy. Which means that Dark Energy can't be a problem because if it was then it would have destroyed the galaxy long before Shepards cycle.

    " When subjected to powerful electrical currents, element zero releases dark energy that can be harnessed to create mass effect fields, effectively raising or lowering the relative mass of all objects within the field. With the eezo nodules and natural electrical impulses in their nervous systems, biotics can generate and wield dark energy biologically, but the effort is physically demanding. "
    http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_energy

    And that is lore that exists prior to Mass Effect 3. The Dark Energy Theory is flawed from the very start of the leak. It was possible for Bioware to create new lore in Mass Effect 3 to attempt to explain it. But perhaps they changed directions because of the very flaws I'm pointing out. Or perhaps they are still going to go with Dark Energy as a larger issue but the Reapers weren't created to solve it but created to keep Organics and Synthetics from destroying each other. Which would leave time for Leviathan and the rest of their race to solve the problem. Dark Energy can fit but it doesn't really work for why the Reapers are doing what they do.

    And I'm not talking bout endings. Not about those choices. I was fine with choices - it's the explanation of the premise that have blown my mind. It's like I was reading a book (a trilogy) and at the end of the book three author goes "Forget what you've read so far, it's all false and unimportant - here's what this is all about".
    Then why do you think the Dark Energy ending would have been any different? From the writer of the Dark Energy ending http://www.oxm.co.uk/39736/revealed-...efore-release/

    ""The original final choice was going to be 'Kill the Reapers and put your faith in the races of the galaxy in finding another way to stop the spread with what little time is left' or 'Sacrifice humanity, allowing them to be horrifically processed in hopes that the end result will justify the means.'"


    There was still going to be the same ultimate choice that has nothing to do with your past choices and alliances. It all came down to finding another way to stop the spread or sacrificing Humanity to become a reaper. The premise of Dark Energy was still Forget everything else and here is what it is all about. The Theory of Dark Energy would never have been explained prior to Mass Effect 3. Just as the Theory of the Catalyst, Crucible and an Energy being able to do something unknown (since no one ever used the Crucible and only the Protheans successfully built it prior)

    1. Why did Sovereign need to WAKE the Reapers? Don't they have like an ALARM CLOCK set to 50000 years?
    Explained in Mass Effect 1 by Vigil. The Protheans modified the Keepers and stopped the Alarm Clock from going off. This is why Sovereign assaulted the Citadel because he had to manually activate the signal. That Signal that had to be activate could have been the Catalyst. Or it could be what activate the Catalyst. Yes there are questions but it doesn't invalidate what happened just because something isn't known.

    2. Why Reapers needed keepers to wake them? Look p.1.
    The reason why they need them is regardless of what ever the Catalyst or Dark Energy. Because the Keepers are the care takers of the Citadel. The catalyst is shown to still be restricted by certain programing which is why the ending options only became available after the Crucible. Besides an AI can't do everything to accommodate life on the Citadel. The Keepers ran the place, repaired it, and kept the inhabitants from finding the central control room where the Catalyst was or the "Reapers were here" info is.

    3. Reapers failed to prevent Geth, why? Why didn't Sovereign destroy them? Why did he took control of them instead?
    Because the Reapers don't just kill people off when they meet a certain criteria. It is established they they do whatever cleansing needs to be done in cycles. And Sovereign took control of the Geth because it wanted to replace the Keepers with the Geth. And the Geth allowed it to remain hidden while still attempting to follow its goal. And it worked as the events of Mass Effect 2 show. Everyone but a select few thought it was all the Geth and not Reapers.

    4. Javik in ME3 tells a tale of their own Synthetics and the war which Proteans won. Where the fuck were Reapers? Why didn't they give that cycle another chance? 5. Why not a peaceful solution? Like "Hi Hunams/Arasis/Tuniars/Saralians/Whatever, don't build AI, please. thank you in advance".
    Because as Leviathan explains some being some where in the Galaxy always broke the rules and it kept leading to Chaos. That is why the Reapers were created to ensure the existence of Organic life (in Reaper Form) so they wouldn't cause Chaos. The ironic thing was that the AI created to solve the problem was originally a symptom of the problem.

    A peaceful solution was only possible through Synthesis with the Crucible. Otherwise it was stuff the Reapers have seen cycles ago. Just because the Quarians and the Geth can coexist peacefully doesn't mean all AI's start out that way. Which leads to a new conflict with a new AI and Organics. Remember that the Geth and EDI were really only able to become "evolved" through Reaper tech. Though the Legion didn't originally have reaper upgrades he was sort of a fluke amongst Geth (it was never really explained why Legion become Legion in the first place).

    6. Why reapers sleep in dark space? Why do they need to limit the usage of Dark Energy Tech of their Cores? Boggles the mind.
    Maybe they require each cycle to create enough Dark Energy for them to power themselves? The Reapers don't need to limit the usage of their Dark Energy tech. They would only need to do that if the Dark Energy theory was true. The Reapers just being Reapers create Dark Energy through the use of Eezo which is what their cores use (or at least the in game lore "speculates" since it is never really stated out right).

    They go into hibernation or Dark Space because what else will they do while they let the next cycle grow? They only cull sentient life at certain stages. Remember they left Asari, Hanar, and others alone when the culled the Protheans. They aren't just interested in all life, or all sentient life. But they are interested in specific kinds which requires them to wait. They also need to hide somewhere so they aren't discovered ruing the cycles maturation and possibly allowing that cycle to defeat them (as is shown possible by Liara and her drones doing if the current cycle fails).

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 11:51 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    It didn't need to be the major theme. These were the clues hidden right before our eyes. It's this thing called the reaper mystery that supposed to be revealed in ME3. This is a work of good writers at its finest. These are just pieces to the puzzle. If you consider the "dark energy" reveal in ME3 instead of Starchild all these little "unimportant" pieces fall into their respective places. And you get this: "wait a minute, it all makes sense now" sensation. Instead of "wtf happened to the story of ME1 and ME2?" excuse of a sensation.

    It just makes sense. I can't believe we are arguing about it.
    Flash forward a few months ago and your reasoning can be applied word for word for the Indoctrination Theory. Just change "Dark Energy" with "Indoctrination". We are discussing it because that is what the forums are for. And you are making a claim.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 11:54 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezerte View Post
    It's just as much a theme as "Synthetics vs. Organics".
    If by theme you mean that Dark Energy is created by anything that uses Eezo then yes it is a theme. But it is never developed into a theme beyond that. And certainly not into one where the Galaxy will be destroyed if Dark Energy is not stopped. The actual existing lore of what creates Dark Energy would seem to indicate it isn't a problem that would lead to destruction since as I stated in another post every cycle creates massive amounts through using the Mass Relays alone.

    Where as Synthetics versus Organics have several developed plots to it. The only developed plot for Dark Energy being a problem was Haestrom and it began and ended with that mission.

    It was never developed. Genetic Diversity doesn't develop it nor does Human Reaper. They would have been related to a potential plot development but are not proof of that plot already existing.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2012-11-18 at 04:56 PM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  20. #11180
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    If by theme you mean that Dark Energy is created by anything that uses Eezo then yes it is a theme. But it is never developed into a theme beyond that. And certainly not into one where the Galaxy will be destroyed if Dark Energy is not stopped. The actual existing lore of what creates Dark Energy would seem to indicate it isn't a problem that would lead to destruction since as I stated in another post every cycle creates massive amounts through using the Mass Relays alone.

    Where as Synthetics versus Organics have several developed plots to it. The only developed plot for Dark Energy being a problem was Haestrom and it began and ended with that mission.

    It was never developed. Genetic Diversity doesn't develop it nor does Human Reaper. They would have been related to a potential plot development but are not proof of that plot already existing.
    Maybe there was more developed plots for S vs. O, how you quantify these will vary from person to person. But let's say for the sake of discussion that I agree with you, read this: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...drew-karpyshyn

    "Yes, we had a plan, but it was very vague. We knew we wanted to focus on some key themes and bring in certain key elements: organics vs synthetics; the Reapers; the Mass Relays. Beyond that, we didn't go into detail because we knew it would change radically as the game continued to evolve,"

    "From what I've heard, they did go in a different direction than what we had originally planned, but that's not surprising - projects evolve, and you rarely end up in the place you expected when you first started."
    "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Paradox of tolerance

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