[Megathread] Mass Effect 3

[khalltusk]

Who is to say the reapers did not scour the Galaxy for any intelligent life regardless of relays being dormant or not. It only took them 2 years and 6 months to go from Dark space to the Galaxy and they dont care about time. Its possible they really did comb the galaxy.

[rhorle]

Thus why I called it space magic. Especially considering one version of it is able to turn every living being in the galaxy into cyborgs.

It created a new form of DNA so there really aren't any cyborgs. Because people didn't suddenly gain machine parts. It leaves a lot up to the imagination on what really changes and how machines like EDI and Geth. It could be that it gave them digital DNA and didn't psychically change anything about their machine bodies. It is boiling the conflict between AI and Organics to DNA. That it is in the very DNA of organics to fight against AI, and it is very "Digital DNA" of AI to fight against Organics at some point.

Or Joker could have bionic bones now. Who knows. Its what a future game will be able to explain that is for sure. And I hope they do go with Synthesis as Cannon. Though I do like Control as well for a future game.

[khalltusk]

It created a new form of DNA so there really aren't any cyborgs. Because people didn't suddenly gain machine parts. It leaves a lot up to the imagination on what really changes and how machines like EDI and Geth. It could be that it gave them digital DNA and didn't psychically change anything about their machine bodies. It is boiling the conflict between AI and Organics to DNA. That it is in the very DNA of organics to fight against AI, and it is very "Digital DNA" of AI to fight against Organics at some point.

Or Joker could have bionic bones now. Who knows. Its what a future game will be able to explain that is for sure. And I hope they do go with Synthesis as Cannon. Though I do like Control as well for a future game.

I hope Shep wakes up in the shower. After hitting shepards head in the shower Shep realises it was all just a dream. Ok Ok bad humour aside I would prefer Destroy but then we lose the Geth and EDI. Synth is just a huge cop out.

[Lahis]

So the developmental path of Humanity was they got to Mars. Found the Prothean ruins, discovered the Charon Relay and explored the galaxy using that. It also means outside of the Sol system, Humanity has only explored 2-3 local stars since the system with the connecting Relay to the Charon Relay was resource rich. They didn't have to explore elsewhere. They took the easy path instead of the hard parth. If Humanity found the ruins and found the warning of not to use the Relays hidden inside. They would have left the Charon Relay frozen and explored the local systems. Chances are, Saren would have wiped out the galactic civilization the first time around and Humanity would be the next cycle of harvesting fifty thousand years down the line. Except far more advanced and would most likely beat the Reapers in a war.

If humans hadn't activated the Relay, but had advanced into a space faring civilization in their local cluster, the Reapers might have still harvested them when Saren activated the Citadel Relay.

Reapers control the Relays, they can activate Charon Relay from the other end and come through it to see if there's anything in the cluster it's situated in. Then they'll find a space faring civilization little less advanced than the rest they had harvested, but advanced enough to be in space and therefore too dangerous to be left there for the next 50 000 years.

[Dhrizzle]

It created a new form of DNA so there really aren't any cyborgs. Because people didn't suddenly gain machine parts. It leaves a lot up to the imagination on what really changes and how machines like EDI and Geth. It could be that it gave them digital DNA and didn't psychically change anything about their machine bodies. It is boiling the conflict between AI and Organics to DNA. That it is in the very DNA of organics to fight against AI, and it is very "Digital DNA" of AI to fight against Organics at some point.

Or Joker could have bionic bones now. Who knows. Its what a future game will be able to explain that is for sure. And I hope they do go with Synthesis as Cannon. Though I do like Control as well for a future game.

I never bought the literal changing of DNA molecules (which, apart from anything else, would exclude any life-forms not based on DNA), it seemed more like he was saying a new "DNA", meaning a fundamental change to life or the set of instructions life is built on. The Extended Ending pretty much sealed it for me when it showed the green energy bonding to, but not changing, first a DNA molecule then what appears to be a neural network in a brain.

Like you mentioned, what it actually does is up to the individual. For synthetics it very likely causes the change that EDI and Legion talk about being "alive" (whatever that may be, possibly the ability to grow and develop as a result of experience, or "organically", as opposed to designed or "synthetic" changes being made). For organics I head-canonned some sort of psychic-consensus (based on the Geth's consensus and the Asari/Protheans abilities to transmit information between minds). "Thanks to Shepard I am alive, and I am not alone".

[Elim Garak]

Just a quick science note: the only change in DNA that radiation can cause is DAMAGE. Also Synthetics have no DNA.
"Accidentally": the only change in electronics that energy discharge can cause is DAMAGE.

Additionally. There are shown around 30 Mass Relays that are used to transmit the energy.
To cover the whole galaxy in the blasts it should take thousands of years at speed of light. Blast wave traveling at FTL speed is... to quote Mordin - problematic
I do not believe in Galaxy packed with Mass Relays on every corner and as seen in the games not every star system has a Relay - more like a Mass Relay per star cluster. Considering the fact that FTL drives are very fast (up to 200x c, iirc) because they are working on the same principle - just less punch - it would make sense to not have Relays packed too dense - they are for LONG travel. And by long I mean Real Galaxy Scale Long.

Even if Relays were packed as densely as in a grid every 20 ly (impossible, but what the heck) - it would take more than 10 years to cover the whole galaxy with blasts at speed of light (blast is spherical not cubic - so add some years to the half of 20 ly)

Yet in ME it took less than a minute.
More so the speed at which it was visualized affecting Reapers in distant systems was SLOW - less than 1% of speed of light for sure.

SHENANIGANS.

Suspension of disbelief. Where art thou?

[Nazrark]

One quick thing I forgot is that what limited FTL travel in ME was the fact the drives needed to be discharged into a planet's atmosphere. So the Citadel races are actually limited on how far they can spread out from a cluster.

Which would make me wonder how exactly they explore the other stars. Do they use long range probes fitted with FTL drives and hope there is a planet on the other end that can accommodate it. If so, makes complete sense as to why they don't actually explore the star clusters as much as it should be explored. Eezo is already a precious resource and is expensive in the ME world. Were not entirely sure on what size of a drive is needed to make the long distance travels.

It is economics that hinder exploration rather than ambition. Each one (probe) is a massively expensive gamble, which has to be followed by a survey team that scours the planet for metals or hability to support life.

The economic initiative isn't there, since there are systems with an abundant amount of asteroids to mine as well.

The Reaper war must have severely crippled the industry they had.

[Mirishka]

I think the Leviathan race will play a part in ME games going forward. It was made clear that they are arguably no better than the Reapers, perfectly willing to make lesser races their thralls/slaves, and that it was only because of the Reapers' creation blowing up in their faces that they went into hiding.

With the Reapers gone (presumably) in future ME games... the Leviathans will go unchecked once more, and I doubt they're gonna be like 'hey gaiz!' while waving gleefully.

[pateuvasiliu]

There's only like 3 of them left. I doubt they are any threat. The races know where they hide and can nuke the planet from orbit.

[May90]

HETHEN! ME2 ending was my fav XD

I don't know, a giant T-800 was a bit awkward... The overall suicide mission was awesome, I agree, but the human Reaper was a joke, IMO.

I think I have done that as well in this very thread previously when the discussion arose, even so it still doesn't make any sense that an EMP blast would be able to travel via the relay network since the game lore dictates that you need to use element zero to achieve negative mass and reach over light speed, which is 1c. An EMP blast is just particles being sent forwards. .

Well, a EMP blast of a certain signature, potentially, can make some really complex change. If you make a very-very precise frequency line, you theoretically could, pretty much, cause any genetic change in any organic in the universe (if we ignore the uncertainty principle, of course, which probably would make it impossible on the scale of the whole galaxy). Also, the zero element lacks any really detailed explanation in Mass Effect, so it is possible it has some really weird properties making it much easier to do what this blast does - since the Reapers can affect organic minds by emitting certain waves, I guess other drastic effects are also possible.

Once - an ancient race escaped the reapers reaping. Now they are coming back, with VENGEANCE!

Or it's a threat that the reapers once extinguished, the "original" reason for the leviathans to create the A.I.

In the first case, I don't think coming back with vengeance after the Reapers have already been defeated is very logical...
But I like the second possibility. I would actually, probably, prefer that among all other possibilities.

Just a quick science note: the only change in DNA that radiation can cause is DAMAGE. Also Synthetics have no DNA.
"Accidentally": the only change in electronics that energy discharge can cause is DAMAGE.

Not really. Controllable radiation is actually often used in medicine to remove cancer knots, to help the skin recover after chemical damage, to kill various viruses without negatively affecting the organism. And we are only starting to reap benefits of this technology, there are way more advanced projects, and, I believe, controllable DNA change is already possible by these methods, we just do not understand DNA well enough to really achieve anything useful with it.

The Crucible has been built for a long time, maybe for millions years. It is logical that they would be able to perfect the technology in the meantime.

Blast wave traveling at FTL speed is... to quote Mordin - problematic

Not really. Remember that the mass effect is not just Higgs-like way to affect particle masses, it is more of a way to affect the space-time itself. If the eezo particle-waves are emitted before the main blast, then it can theoretically travel at any speed - of course, it depends on what the eezo really is, as the information we have in the game on this is quite scarce.

There's only like 3 of them left. I doubt they are any threat. The races know where they hide and can nuke the planet from orbit.

We don't know how many of them are left, we just met only 3. They themselves said that many of them scattered in hidden corners of the Galaxy, so potentially there might be thousands, if not millions, more of them.

[Elim Garak]

Not really. Controllable radiation is actually often used in medicine to remove cancer knots, to help the skin recover after chemical damage, to kill various viruses without negatively affecting the organism.

Damaging cancer cells
Damaging skin cells - to force regeneration
Damaging viruses
None of the above are DNA though

Doesn't look like you are arguing with me at all

Also Blast wave is in no way a controlled application of radiation.

Not really. Remember that the mass effect

Blasts waves are not affected by Mass Effect. And it is seen in the game that blast wave is slow - like a car.

[Deleted]

Also Blast wave is in no way a controlled application of radiation.

What control? We just nuke the universe with SCIENCE charged eezo.

[Mirishka]

We don't know how many of them are left, we just met only 3. They themselves said that many of them scattered in hidden corners of the Galaxy, so potentially there might be thousands, if not millions, more of them.

Exactly. The ones we met didn't say 'we're the only ones left, QQ'. There's no telling how many were in hiding, and they obviously had the means to decimate even the most powerful Reapers when the circumstances favored them.

When I beat that DLC, all I could think to myself was "wow... these guys are gonna be a reeeeeally big problem some day."

[Deleted]

In the first case, I don't think coming back with vengeance after the Reapers have already been defeated is very logical...
But I like the second possibility. I would actually, probably, prefer that among all other possibilities.

Reapers are still around in Blue/Green.

[khalltusk]

I don't know, a giant T-800 was a bit awkward... The overall suicide mission was awesome, I agree, but the human Reaper was a joke, IMO.


Well, a EMP blast of a certain signature, potentially, can make some really complex change. If you make a very-very precise frequency line, you theoretically could, pretty much, cause any genetic change in any organic in the universe (if we ignore the uncertainty principle, of course, which probably would make it impossible on the scale of the whole galaxy). Also, the zero element lacks any really detailed explanation in Mass Effect, so it is possible it has some really weird properties making it much easier to do what this blast does - since the Reapers can affect organic minds by emitting certain waves, I guess other drastic effects are also possible.


In the first case, I don't think coming back with vengeance after the Reapers have already been defeated is very logical...
But I like the second possibility. I would actually, probably, prefer that among all other possibilities.


Not really. Controllable radiation is actually often used in medicine to remove cancer knots, to help the skin recover after chemical damage, to kill various viruses without negatively affecting the organism. And we are only starting to reap benefits of this technology, there are way more advanced projects, and, I believe, controllable DNA change is already possible by these methods, we just do not understand DNA well enough to really achieve anything useful with it.

The Crucible has been built for a long time, maybe for millions years. It is logical that they would be able to perfect the technology in the meantime.


Not really. Remember that the mass effect is not just Higgs-like way to affect particle masses, it is more of a way to affect the space-time itself. If the eezo particle-waves are emitted before the main blast, then it can theoretically travel at any speed - of course, it depends on what the eezo really is, as the information we have in the game on this is quite scarce.


We don't know how many of them are left, we just met only 3. They themselves said that many of them scattered in hidden corners of the Galaxy, so potentially there might be thousands, if not millions, more of them.

The Human reaper was "ok" I still to this day dont understand why the reapers were bothering with it. If they were already on their way here after ME1 then it was pointless trying to make one with the collectors. As they would have just had to have brought it to Earth to complete it anyway. I guess a headstart would have been nice.

[pateuvasiliu]

We don't know how many of them are left, we just met only 3.

The whole questline was so we can find them. The detection only reveals that aquatic planet and only 3 of them are left.

There's no proof to indicate there are more. Even the fact that 3 Reaper-sized creatures somehow hid from the Reapers for MILLIONS OF YEARS ( every 50K years a reaper is born and there's a shit ton of them ) whereas Shepard found them in a few weeks is odd to me.

- - - Updated - - -

The Human reaper was "ok" I still to this day dont understand why the reapers were bothering with it. If they were already on their way here after ME1 then it was pointless trying to make one with the collectors. As they would have just had to have brought it to Earth to complete it anyway. I guess a headstart would have been nice.

My 2c is The Collectors were used by the Reapers to bait Shepard. Shepard was always the target. They simply attacked humans to make him more reckless ( arguably assaulting a giant base with only 12 men is suicidal ).

Doubt they expected Shepard to beat them.

And the Reaper was just a side bonus. We're already killing thousand of humans, no? Might as well make something pretty out of it.

[Deleted]

The whole questline was so we can find them. The detection only reveals that aquatic planet and only 3 of them are left.

There's no proof to indicate there are more.

The whole questline was to find whatever killed the supposed Leviathan of Dis, there was no hint to multiple entities prior to meeting the three. And then they outright say that there are more.

[May90]

Damaging cancer cells
Damaging skin cells - to force regeneration
Damaging viruses

This is just semantics. You can say that everything anything does is damage, like you are damaging transistors with electron radiation when you press keys on the keyboard and they let a signal to the internal hardware. I fail to see how it means we can't create anything by these means though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation_breeding

Blasts waves are not affected by Mass Effect. And it is seen in the game that blast wave is slow - like a car.

Pfff, you are not even trying to think... The initial blast wave is slow, but then it speeds up - this is the case with, pretty much, any detonation, if you read on physics of it. Seriously, dude, it is clear that you've already made up your mind and you refuse to even consider possibilities of what's shown in the game - and that is the case with, pretty much, every hater in the world.

When I beat that DLC, all I could think to myself was "wow... these guys are gonna be a reeeeeally big problem some day."

The most scary thing for me was the fact that they didn't seem to show any remorse for their actions. Like, they had countless millions, maybe over a billion, years to understand their mistakes - and yet they are joining the war with the words: "We won't fight for you. The Reapers will be our slaves again". They still just want to be the dominating race in the Galaxy, they haven't learned anything, and, given their intellectual advancement and countless millions years to refine their strategies, I think, should they make a full-scale return - and the Reapers will look like kittens in comparison.

Reapers are still around in Blue/Green.

They aren't a threat to organics though in every case.

There's no proof to indicate there are more.

Sorry, but this is the worst argument I've ever heard. Of course there is no proof, they haven't hidden from Reapers for millions years only to reveal themselves to some random organic. What kind of proof would you expect?

[Elim Garak]

This is just semantics. You can say that everything anything does is damage, like you are damaging transistors with electron radiation when you press keys on the keyboard and they let a signal to the internal hardware.

That was not semantics. Semantics is what you are doing now. Radiation damages DNA. Period. Keys on my keyboard send signals to my computer - the transistor is just there to pass it at expense of its own lifespan. It's its job. To die for my key presses. Signals are not meant for it - they are meant for my computer.
It's a controlled, DESIGNED, process.

Blast wave of radiation is not.

I fail to see how it means we can't create anything by these means though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation_breeding

Quit mentioning CONTROLLED PROCESSES. If you apply radiation to a specific part of DNA to achieve the effect you want to achieve - it's one thing. Washing DNA with radiation - indiscriminately - is another.

Pfff, you are not even trying to think... The initial blast wave is slow, but then it speeds up - this is the case with, pretty much, any detonation, if you read on physics of it.

Not... sure... if... serious...

Brace yourselves - remember those Test Nuclear Blasts of the past? Their blast waves are about to hit us again as they make another pass around the Earth! This time they will be even STRONGER.

[Nerraw]

It's been almost exactly 5 years since the release of ME2. Five. Years. Half a decade has passed. What the actual...?? I still remember the night it unlocked in EU. Played until the early hours.