1. #441
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    You have yet to actually make an argument. I'll come back when you do.

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-05 at 08:49 AM ----------

    And if you're going to try to attack a source its a good idea to actually criticize its methodology rather than just go "lolnope"
    Despite me literally making as much of an argument as you, you respond with a simple ad hominem. Interesting.


    IN the end, our arguments are based on opinion, not fact. You can link a study that says when prisoners are bored they attack people more. I can reply with "The study is clearly flawed, they are dealing with criminals that will lie about there actions" The research is, in my opinion, flawed. I guess I should have added "In my opinion" after it.

    I do not think lack of pornographic materials causes more rape in prison. I think rapists cause rape in prison. I do not think not having tv causes more assaults on guards; it is criminals attacking each other. I am not saying "We should just chain them to a wall until the sentence is over" but they do not need cable tv and porn provided to them in a prison. In my opinion.


    http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com...icted-monsters interesting article, obviously just another opinion. (Also the prisons are in Europe, but his point still stands)
    Last edited by Twiddly; 2012-03-05 at 10:25 AM.

  2. #442
    There was no ad hominem in there.

  3. #443
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    There was no ad hominem in there.
    I probably just had the definition wrong it is quite late and I apologize. I do not consider saying "You have yet to make an argument" a reasonable response to someone saying something.

  4. #444
    No seriously, I don't see anything that could constitute an argument in your posts.

  5. #445
    The Insane Catta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twiddly View Post
    Despite me literally making as much of an argument as you, you respond with a simple ad hominem. Interesting.


    IN the end, our arguments are based on opinion, not fact. You can link a study that says when prisoners are bored they attack people more. I can reply with "The study is clearly flawed, they are dealing with criminals that will lie about there actions" The research is, in my opinion, flawed. I guess I should have added "In my opinion" after it.

    I do not think lack of pornographic materials causes more rape in prison. I think rapists cause rape in prison. I do not think not having tv causes more assaults on guards; it is criminals attacking each other. I am not saying "We should just chain them to a wall until the sentence is over" but they do not need cable tv and porn provided to them in a prison. In my opinion.


    http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com...icted-monsters interesting article, obviously just another opinion. (Also the prisons are in Europe, but his point still stands)
    You know riots have been started over small things like TV privileges being taken away or the lack of pudding in the cantina right?

  6. #446
    Quote Originally Posted by Twiddly View Post
    Why do you think so? Maybe the porn turns them on and they rape MORE! I have no proof of this, and you have no proof of yours. bored inmates causing violence? Then they were violent to begin with. Why should we reward people for being assholes? "Oh this guy will hit me if I do not let him watch TV..." is like saying to a kid in Wal-Mart "oh hes going to cry..better buy him toys!"
    I can't speak for wells, but I think so because of data -

    http://books.google.com/books?id=pPk...page&q&f=false

    melindawenner.com/Clips_files/smut.pdf

    It also jibes with what I'd think intuitively, but that's less important than what the data show.

    I think the differences in opinion come from core differences in policy goals. To me, I want to get optimal real world results from policy decisions; things like less violence against guards, less violence against other inmates, lower recidivism, and improved likelihood of success in life are worthy goals. If your only real policy goal is standing by what you personally find to be morally right, that's not going to be consistent with policy goals that are results-oriented.

  7. #447
    The Insane smrund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Do I think porn might cut down on prison rape? Yuuuup.

    Do I think bored inmates are more likely to cause violence? Yuuuup.
    Porn does different things for different people. For some it makes them see what they desire more as objects and less as people, for others, it gets their mind off of it. But in the end, not being able to get the latest playboy is not a good excuse for prison rape. People who are willing to rape are generally going to rape, regardless of what you put in their hands.

    Then there are plenty of ways to occupy them without giving them free TV, countless things that will improve their lives instead of just numb their brain, and if they're not interested in improving their lives then they can rot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    People in cars cause accidents. Accidents in cars cause people.
    Sometimes life gives you lemons, other times life gives you boobies. Life is always better with more boobies.
    Blizzard removed my subscription from WoD's features, it'll be added sometime later.
    And thus I give you: MALE contraception!

  8. #448
    IN the end, our arguments are based on opinion, not fact. You can link a study that says when prisoners are bored they attack people more. I can reply with "The study is clearly flawed, they are dealing with criminals that will lie about there actions" The research is, in my opinion, flawed. I guess I should have added "In my opinion" after it.
    This is ridiculous. You can't just declare a study is wrong because you think prisoners will lie. You have to actually show its wrong. You have to show the prisoners would be lying.

    I do not think lack of pornographic materials causes more rape in prison. I think rapists cause rape in prison. I do not think not having tv causes more assaults on guards; it is criminals attacking each other. I am not saying "We should just chain them to a wall until the sentence is over" but they do not need cable tv and porn provided to them in a prison. In my opinion.
    The difference is you can't back this up with a credible study.

    User infracted
    Last edited by Pendulous; 2012-03-06 at 07:31 PM.

  9. #449
    Warchief Northy's Avatar
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    This country would be better off if everything the President tries to do isn't always blocked. Also, personally, I'd like to see him slide a bit to the left politically. It seems that since the Republicans have moved drastically to the right (it's like the 1950s again) the Democrats have had to follow suit and move into the middle, which gets us nowhere. Obama is definitely better than anything the Republicans can provide, but I would still like to see the Democratic party move back to where it belongs....the left.

  10. #450
    Really? From Jan to July, just this year, he took 25 domestic trips on AF1, of which 22 involved either a fundraiser, travel to a presidential battleground state, or both.

  11. #451
    Stood in the Fire TechnoKronic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiohbik45 View Post
    Really? From Jan to July, just this year, he took 25 domestic trips on AF1, of which 22 involved either a fundraiser, travel to a presidential battleground state, or both.
    um... so explain how that is bad.?
    AF1 was also used by bush, clinton, and Bush Sr for domestic trips.

    explain whatever point you seem to be trying to make.

  12. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    This is ridiculous. You can't just declare a study is wrong because you think prisoners will lie. You have to actually show its wrong. You have to show the prisoners would be lying.



    The difference is you can't back this up with a credible study.
    there is no study of prisoners that I will ever believe. They are *CRIMINALS* they will lie and cheat and stab you to get out of things. Why do you put so much stock into prisoners? You believe them? Would you believe some guy that killed your mom for her purse? That is who this study is studying. Criminals.

  13. #453
    there is no study of prisoners that I will ever believe.
    And this is why I stopped trying to engage you in a debate. When you immediately reject any form of data you cease to operate in the real world.

  14. #454
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    Porn does different things for different people. For some it makes them see what they desire more as objects and less as people, for others, it gets their mind off of it. But in the end, not being able to get the latest playboy is not a good excuse for prison rape. People who are willing to rape are generally going to rape, regardless of what you put in their hands.

    Then there are plenty of ways to occupy them without giving them free TV, countless things that will improve their lives instead of just numb their brain, and if they're not interested in improving their lives then they can rot.
    I already linked the data, on the last page, showing that your claim that we don't really know the effect is false. Porn does, in fact, reduce the likelihood of prison rape. So let's be entirely clear - if you're advocating against porn in prisons, you're advocating for more rape.

  15. #455
    Quote Originally Posted by jiohbik45 View Post
    Really? From Jan to July, just this year, he took 25 domestic trips on AF1, of which 22 involved either a fundraiser, travel to a presidential battleground state, or both.
    He's supposed to travel by AF1 as President, regardless of whether he's engaging in Presidential or personal business. Just because he's on his way to a fundraiser doesn't mean an emergency won't strike where he may need to have the command and control capabilities of AF1. Just because he's not on Presidential business doesn't mean he's suddenly safe and doesn't need the same level of security.

  16. #456
    Pandaren Monk Willeonge's Avatar
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    "Laws should be made of iron, not of pudding."

    “A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad act the good. Each should have its own reward.”

    - King Stannis Baratheon

  17. #457
    Stood in the Fire TechnoKronic's Avatar
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    this was a good read.

  18. #458
    I agree with much of what was stated in this opinion piece, but I also feel that the author really glossed over a lot of things in order to maintain his narrative.

    He also ignores that this "long strategy" would likely be a failure if the Republican candidates were not so terrible, simply because the misinformation against Obama WORKS.

  19. #459
    Blademaster Faery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northy View Post
    This country would be better off if everything the President tries to do isn't always blocked. Also, personally, I'd like to see him slide a bit to the left politically. It seems that since the Republicans have moved drastically to the right (it's like the 1950s again) the Democrats have had to follow suit and move into the middle, which gets us nowhere. Obama is definitely better than anything the Republicans can provide, but I would still like to see the Democratic party move back to where it belongs....the left.
    I totally agree.

  20. #460
    Pandaren Monk Solzan Nemesis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northy View Post
    This country would be better off if everything the President tries to do isn't always blocked. Also, personally, I'd like to see him slide a bit to the left politically. It seems that since the Republicans have moved drastically to the right (it's like the 1950s again) the Democrats have had to follow suit and move into the middle, which gets us nowhere. Obama is definitely better than anything the Republicans can provide, but I would still like to see the Democratic party move back to where it belongs....the left.
    I also agree

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