U.S. Presidential race - Democrat Discussion

[Bobdoletoo]

You want a cookie or something? Semantically you are correct, but in reality, Obama didn't modify the Bush tax cuts one bit, just re-packaged them into his own bill. That's why I call them the Bush/Obama tax cuts.

I don't want a cookie, i just want people to mean what they say. If i am right, why say technically, it's like saying "you're right, but i really don't want to admit it".

At least you admit that they are now obama "cuts". If they expire after 10 years and a new president, not the president from 2 years before that, continues them, it is either the new tax rate or a new cut. The people who want them to expire so they can say the Bush tax cuts are just using it politically. Everything has to be political. Obama ran for the presidency as anti Bush, so he has to keep this as a Bush tax cut because if he gets rid of it, his base will be all giddy. Just ask some of the obama only defenders on these boards. You would think an obama tax cut would be a positive......right?

---------- Post added 2012-03-25 at 06:28 PM ----------

If we want to get out of our deficit hole, we need to cut spending, increase taxes, and increase production.

When the current tax rate rises after alleged"cuts" are gone and nothing major happens, who do you tax then? That money is so insignificant. What happens when they have to tax the middle class? How do you sugar coat that?

[Wells]

As the unemployment rate has gone down, productivity has not increased even nearly as fast as it should have when comparing to traditional values. Much of it has to do with the low quality of the jobs (temps) as well as the jobs being in the wrong sectors due to outside stimulus (not really Obama's fault, mostly global central bankers)

There's always a lag though between unemployment picking up and productivity improving. Takes a while for all the pieces to fall in the right places.

Just like how employment is typically one of the last economic indicators to improve.

[Sunseeker]

You'll never be able to sugar coat an increase in taxes. Ever. Individual increases will mean so little to each person, but added up? Tremendous.

If we wager that at least 1/3rd of the population pays something in income taxes, then that's 100,000,000 people. An increase of an average of $100 a year to every tax-payer is 100 billion dollars more revenue. If we could pull out an average increase of $1000? That's a TRILLION dollars of increased revenue yearly, that's about 2/3rds of the national budget. If we could cut the budget by 1/4th to 1/3rd(I'm looking at you DoD), the increase ALONE would pay for the budget, everything else we normally get could go straight to debt payments or national investment. If we pulled in an extra trillion in revenue & cuts, we could pay off the national debt in about 20 years.

Of course, figuring out who to tax and who to fire(which is what budget cuts come down to) and getting it through people's thick heads that this is good for America is the hard part.

[prwraith]

I look forward to the day that this multiple party nonsense is behind us. That said being an independent out of what I've seen so far however much i disapprove of Obama, he's the lesser of the evils currently in this race. Nobody incumbent or challenger should have anything to do with government in my honest opinion. But we can't hope to elect people on actual merit and talent anytime soon.

---------- Post added 2012-03-25 at 10:09 PM ----------

If we wager that at least 1/3rd of the population pays something in income taxes, then that's 100,000,000 people. An increase of an average of $100 a year to every tax-payer is 100 billion dollars more revenue. If we could pull out an average increase of $1000? That's a TRILLION dollars of increased revenue yearly, that's about 2/3rds of the national budget. If we could cut the budget by 1/4th to 1/3rd(I'm looking at you DoD), the increase ALONE would pay for the budget, everything else we normally get could go straight to debt payments or national investment. If we pulled in an extra trillion in revenue & cuts, we could pay off the national debt in about 20 years.

Of course, figuring out who to tax and who to fire(which is what budget cuts come down to) and getting it through people's thick heads that this is good for America is the hard part.

I like you. (I hate paying taxes though/ even if I understand the need for them :P )

[Wells]

We did just fine under Clinton era tax rates. I'll miss the extra cash, but it gets our debt in order. This assumes the spending cuts actually happen, though. I hear the GOP is trying to reneg on the automatic spending cuts to military if they didn't come to an agreement. Fiscal conservatives my ass.

No because you see shared sacrifice is for poor people.

But yeah, taxes can go way up before we start seeing negative feedback.

[Tastyfish]

There are people who will vote for Romney because of the color of his skin.

I feel people will vote for him because they want to be him, rich and powerful. Fuck the magic undies and the fact his religion will baptize the dead into it.
We are so close to Class/religious war in this country it's scarey, and the fact that both sides drum up the drama just to get people on their side is stupid.
They all think we are mouth breathing morons.


We live in a very stupid country

[Tastyfish]

Sadly, a lot of us are. Our education system sucks. I'm 20 years removed from it, and it's deplorable to see from my POV in such a short period of time.

I have found in America the tactics used on our parents, " COMMIES EVERYWHERE LOOKING TO TAKE DOWN THE USA" are the tactics used on us, still, and people eat it up.
A Country who crys freedom, but in it's own borders, has people elected crying, freedom for only some, is not a country earning respect

[Catta]

If we want to get out of our deficit hole, we need to cut spending, increase taxes, and increase production.

I remember that quiz someone made a thread about mentioned that the thing the US has done the most to get out of recessions is by increasing spending and decreasing taxes xD

[Kasierith]

I remember that quiz someone made a thread about mentioned that the thing the US has done the most to get out of recessions is by increasing spending and decreasing taxes xD

That was to get out of market slumps though... the problem right now is massive government debt from said increased spending and decreased taxes. Theoretically right now or pretty soon is when the government wants to have a spike in taxes to make up what they lost in increase spending and decreased revenue.. but because the US already had a high deficit when the stimulus happened the deficit kind of went out of control from what a tax spike could handle

[Catta]

That was to get out of market slumps though... the problem right now is massive government debt from said increased spending and decreased taxes. Theoretically right now or pretty soon is when the government wants to have a spike in taxes to make up what they lost in increase spending and decreased revenue.. but because the US already had a high deficit when the stimulus happened the deficit kind of went out of control from what a tax spike could handle

Well that and half the congress has vowed never to raise taxes... ever... ಠ_ಠ

[Xeones]

Has anyone seen this? I'm having trouble finding a video of it but it happened this morning. Obama was talking with the Russian president and said he would be more flexible after the election. In plain english caught on camera.

[ptwonline]

Has anyone seen this? I'm having trouble finding a video of it but it happened this morning. Obama was talking with the Russian president and said he would be more flexible after the election. In plain english caught on camera.

Yeah I saw something about that. I'm sure Gingrich will call it a disgrace. Romney will call it evidence that the President is not standing firm and true on issues the way Romney himself does! And Santorum will probably make a comment about the evils of butt-sex.

We all know it's true. During an election there are certain things that candidate can and cannot say, no matter how actually positive or negative it might actually be. Then after the silly season is done they actually go on with governing.

[eriseis]

Yeah I saw something about that. I'm sure Gingrich will call it a disgrace. Romney will call it evidence that the President is not standing firm and true on issues the way Romney himself does! And Santorum will probably make a comment about the evils of butt-sex.

We all know it's true. During an election there are certain things that candidate can and cannot say, no matter how actually positive or negative it might actually be. Then after the silly season is done they actually go on with governing.

What did he say he was gonna be more flexible about, though?

[ptwonline]

What did he say he was gonna be more flexible about, though?

He said he would have more flexibility on "issues", but specifically mentioned missile defense. He was talking to Russian President Dmitry Medvedev at the Nuclear Summit, so it's very likely that it was about those sorts of issues in particular.

[Xeones]

He said he would have more flexibility on "issues", but specifically mentioned missile defense. He was talking to Russian President Dmitry Medvedev at the Nuclear Summit, so it's very likely that it was about those sorts of issues in particular.

This was the understanding I had. Some sort of missle defense system.

[Meleti]

The point Obama flubbed making is that he can't make any advances on foreign policy with Russia during an election season, because domestic pressures from both parties prevent him from negotiating good policy. For another example of this, take a look at how America's anti-China rhetoric soared last month during a visit by the vice president Xi Jinping.

[Bobdoletoo]

If I buy my favorite sports team's jersey from Walmart, do I call it a Walmart shirt, or my favorite team's shirt? Technically, it is a Walmart shirt, but it's also my favorite team's shirt. This is getting out of hand, in some weird need to force people to say Obama tax cuts, when we all know they're Bush tax cuts that Obama renewed.



When I've been calling it Bush tax cuts for 10 years, I kinda have the tendency to keep calling it that. Unlike most people that follow politics, I know the country didn't start when Obama took office.

And no, in terms of fiscal conservatism, the Bush tax cuts, or Obama tax cuts, or the Bush/Obama tax cuts, are not a positive for our country. Raise taxes, cut spending. It's not hard.

EDIT - and I think it's kind of funny that you think Obama supporters WANT to pay more taxes, just because they're Obama supporters. No one likes paying more taxes. It's just that the majority of people in this country recognize the fact that they're necessary.



50% of the country isn't being taxed on income. These tax cuts are a major reason. I make $100K and my effective income tax rate is 5%. I love that I am, but it's hurting our country's future. So is the spending. Fix them both. And please spare me the "you can always donate more money on your 1040" crap. I pay what the tax man says to pay, nothing more, nothing less.

You'll never be able to sugar coat an increase in taxes. Ever. Individual increases will mean so little to each person, but added up? Tremendous.

The wal mart analogy is just silly. Not even going to bother.

I would never advocate paying more then your share of taxes..... but obama has been going around touting warren buffet, the purveyor of "I want to pay more taxes" along with other supporters who agree, and you say they don't want to pay more taxes? You really have seen none of this at all? And buffet's view is hypocrisy anyways because his company owes millions of unpaid back taxes.

You are right, individuals paying taxes added up will be tremendous. However, most corporations/rich people know how to pay less taxes, so when the obama cuts expire and they have to tax everyone more, it will hurt the middle class more. That's what I am not hoping for at least, that is the change I do not want, but will soon get.

[Twiddly]

Obama saying that he does not want to do anything risky until after the election:

http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news...cid=todmsnbc11


Hilarious! "Please, please, please just wait until after the elections; I cannot take a stand on anything that can hurt me!"

So much respect lost for Obama over the last couple of years, and this just tops it all. He is worried more about elections then he is about the country.

---------- Post added 2012-03-26 at 07:21 PM ----------

Saying it is just politics? So all our president is for, is to be re-elected? He has no job other then that? Please.

[Meleti]

Obama saying that he does not want to do anything risky until after the election:

http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news...cid=todmsnbc11


Hilarious! "Please, please, please just wait until after the elections; I cannot take a stand on anything that can hurt me!"

So much respect lost for Obama over the last couple of years, and this just tops it all. He is worried more about elections then he is about the country.

So who exactly do you propose to respect? The Republican presidential candidates spent most of the primary going on and on about crazy ideas that they could never get past Congress, interlaced with comments about how awesome it would be to indiscriminately declare war on Islamic nations.

[Xeones]

Obama saying that he does not want to do anything risky until after the election:

http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news...cid=todmsnbc11


Hilarious! "Please, please, please just wait until after the elections; I cannot take a stand on anything that can hurt me!"

So much respect lost for Obama over the last couple of years, and this just tops it all. He is worried more about elections then he is about the country.

---------- Post added 2012-03-26 at 07:21 PM ----------

Saying it is just politics? So all our president is for, is to be re-elected? He has no job other then that? Please.

As weird as it is to hear plainly spoken like that it isn't anything we don't already know. You've got Romney attacking Obama because we should be trying to go to war with Russia instead of developing better diplomatic relations with them. Also, really "Won't take a stand on anything that might hurt me!" what do you call that health care bill? Or front manning the auto industry bail out?

I haven't agreed with everything Obama has done, but I'd prefer him over some guys who want to go to war against our own people and every nation who doesn't agree with us.