1. #9441
    Titan Kalyyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I don't really get the Romney appeal at all, but I must admit that Ryan's a very good politician. The only comfort to take in that debate is that no one votes based on VPs.
    Which is good for the Obama camp, because I imagine Biden is going to curl up and die during his debate with Ryan. Palin was an easy opponent because she's... well, her, but Ryan has cunning. I'll be surprised if he doesn't eat Biden alive.

  2. #9442
    Quote Originally Posted by ptwonline View Post
    EVERYONE is negatively affected by the budget issues. EVERYONE in the job market is affected by rising unemployment, even the self-employed since their customers will have less money to spend.
    This isn't really true. People with the same degree I have in my field have an ~1.7% unemployment rate.

    In fact, a bit of deflation actually puts me, personally, in a better spot.

    No, I'm not suggesting that such a selfish outlook is a good voting tactic. Just saying that there's plenty of people that are perfectly fine, and some that have even benefited from the malaise.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-04 at 09:10 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyyn View Post
    Which is good for the Obama camp, because I imagine Biden is going to curl up and die during his debate with Ryan. Palin was an easy opponent because she's... well, her, but Ryan has cunning. I'll be surprised if he doesn't eat Biden alive.
    I concur. Biden's silly, but not dumb. Palin's.... well, let's just say she's about as bright as the average person and leave it at that. Ryan's a pretty sharp guy and a very good speaker.

  3. #9443
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Frankly, we should be slashing the shit out of the military budget and closing bases anyway. I regard businesses that rely purely on military for their subsistence as rather parasitic in the first place.
    It's because the town is the closest thing to the base. I agree we should slash the Military budget. To increase it for what? a few months ago the defense dept wanted to try this sonic air boom. It's idea was to ride waves through the sky and travel faster then any airplane. Ever...it lasted for under thirty seconds what was supposed be an hour and it broke apart into the ocean.

    Point is I agree. We are already spending way too much on stuff we do not even need. I say put that money back into the system for programs.

  4. #9444
    Titan Kalyyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptwonline View Post
    EVERYONE is negatively affected by the budget issues. EVERYONE in the job market is affected by rising unemployment, even the self-employed since their customers will have less money to spend. EVERYONE who owns or are paying for a home was affected.

    I'm not even American and this affects me. Did you not notice that the US economic meltdown tanked the economy of the entire planet?
    Would it irritate you if I told you that my family actually became quite wealthy because of the recession? Thought it'd be funny if I mentioned that.

  5. #9445
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    This isn't really true. People with the same degree I have in my field have an ~1.7% unemployment rate.

    In fact, a bit of deflation actually puts me, personally, in a better spot.

    No, I'm not suggesting that such a selfish outlook is a good voting tactic. Just saying that there's plenty of people that are perfectly fine, and some that have even benefited from the malaise.
    You are assuming, of course, that the resulting economic meltdown means that no one in your field will lose their jobs due to forced budget cutbacks and lack of consumer spending. That could be true for certain fields, but for most I think it would be a real issue at some point.

  6. #9446
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    I am looking forward to Crazy Joe Biden's debate tactics. Should be amusing.

  7. #9447
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyyn View Post
    Would it irritate you if I told you that my family actually became quite wealthy because of the recession? Thought it'd be funny if I mentioned that.
    Ok then let me rephrase: almost everyone is negatively affected.

    May I ask what business your family is in that you benefited from the recession? I work in a counter-cyclical industry (private education) that usually profits more when times are bad, but this has negatively affected us too since gov't is now locking down their funding due to budget concerns.

  8. #9448
    Quote Originally Posted by FusedMass View Post
    Point is I agree. We are already spending way too much on stuff we do not even need. I say put that money back into the system for programs.
    I think there's a number of defensible uses for the money; one would be to simply cut deficits (although I don't think this has great value in an economic slump). My personal tastes would be massive spending on alternative energy, research in various fields, and infrastructure spending.

    While it'll never happen, I'd love to see targeted funds for transforming cities that could be bikeable into actual bikeable cities. If more American cities looked like Madison, WI, we'd have more people riding. That cuts emissions, improves people's fitness, cuts noise pollution and traffic, and numerous other benefits. I'm not suggesting that building bike lanes fixes an economy, just ranting about one of my personal desires.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-04 at 09:18 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ptwonline View Post
    You are assuming, of course, that the resulting economic meltdown means that no one in your field will lose their jobs due to forced budget cutbacks and lack of consumer spending. That could be true for certain fields, but for most I think it would be a real issue at some point.
    I think you're overestimating the number of people that are adversely affected. Again, to be clear, I'm not pro-recession policies... just that not everyone gets hit hard, and many people wouldn't notice the difference if you didn't inform them.

  9. #9449
    Titan Kalyyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    I am looking forward to Crazy Joe Biden's debate tactics. Should be amusing.
    I am too. I was kind of "eh" about whether or not I watched last night's debate, but I'm excited about Biden vs. Ryan.

  10. #9450
    Quote Originally Posted by ptwonline View Post
    May I ask what business your family is in that you benefited from the recession? I work in a counter-cyclical industry (private education) that usually profits more when times are bad, but this has negatively affected us too since gov't is now locking down their funding due to budget concerns.
    One industry that's profited strongly from the recession is rental housing, which has seen both an increase in demand, and a fall in the cost of investment properties. People that have been buying rental properties during the slump have done great (I haven't, my parents have).

  11. #9451
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I think there's a number of defensible uses for the money; one would be to simply cut deficits (although I don't think this has great value in an economic slump). My personal tastes would be massive spending on alternative energy, research in various fields, and infrastructure spending.

    While it'll never happen, I'd love to see targeted funds for transforming cities that could be bikeable into actual bikeable cities. If more American cities looked like Madison, WI, we'd have more people riding. That cuts emissions, improves people's fitness, cuts noise pollution and traffic, and numerous other benefits. I'm not suggesting that building bike lanes fixes an economy, just ranting about one of my personal desires.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-04 at 09:18 AM ----------



    I think you're overestimating the number of people that are adversely affected. Again, to be clear, I'm not pro-recession policies... just that not everyone gets hit hard, and many people wouldn't notice the difference if you didn't inform them.
    Almost anyone who would ever switch jobs, switch employers, or expect a raise is affected by a bad job market and the depressing effect on wage levels.

  12. #9452
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyyn View Post
    Would it irritate you if I told you that my family actually became quite wealthy because of the recession? Thought it'd be funny if I mentioned that.
    You thought it would be funny to mention your family pocked the wealth while American's struggled to maintain food on the table. Yes this irates me on a moral level. Exploiting or taking advantages of people who are already facing hard times. It's..unthinkable. It's like a man selling blankets a homeless shelter for ten bucks a pop. Sure he makes a profit but he's taking advantage of people in a hard situation.

  13. #9453
    Titan Kalyyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptwonline View Post
    Ok then let me rephrase: almost everyone is negatively affected.

    May I ask what business your family is in that you benefited from the recession? I work in a counter-cyclical industry (private education) that usually profits more when times are bad, but this has negatively affected us too since gov't is now locking down their funding due to budget concerns.
    Property trading. People tend to not realize that the best time to get into the real estate business is when the housing market is collapsing. They think that the market is permanently dead, but logic says that eventually it will return to normal. Combine that with all the bank foreclosures in the area, and we were able to buy huge chunks of several neighborhoods for dirt cheap. We flipped the houses and started renting them out. Once the market picks up again, we'll sell them off and make one hell of a profit. We've already made back well over our initial investment just off the renters.

  14. #9454
    Quote Originally Posted by ptwonline View Post
    Almost anyone who would ever switch jobs, switch employers, or expect a raise is affected by a bad job market and the depressing effect on wage levels.
    Wage levels haven't been especially depressed in high-skill fields during the current economic slump. The drop in median income is mostly a result of unemployment; nominal wage stickiness has prevented any real drop in actual wages. I've personally seen significant salary increases over the last two years and nearly got a big bump from switching jobs (but lost out to another, more specifically qualified applicant). Individual circumstances swamp overarching trends; any individual can have success just fine in the context of an economic slump.

    Just to reiterate, so no one misreads me, the economic slump is a very, very, very, very bad thing. I'm not saying it's not. Just that I don't have any reasonable personal expectation of suffering from it, and I know plenty of others in the same boat.

  15. #9455
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    One industry that's profited strongly from the recession is rental housing, which has seen both an increase in demand, and a fall in the cost of investment properties. People that have been buying rental properties during the slump have done great (I haven't, my parents have).
    Ah. To use a rather pejorative term: the modern day carpetbaggers. It's good to have money to invest and exploit the people suffering in hard times.

  16. #9456
    Titan Kalyyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FusedMass View Post
    You thought it would be funny to mention your family pocked the wealth while American's struggled to maintain food on the table. Yes this irates me on a moral level. Exploiting or taking advantages of people who are already facing hard times. It's..unthinkable. It's like a man selling blankets a homeless shelter for ten bucks a pop. Sure he makes a profit but he's taking advantage of people in a hard situation.
    The banks are the ones who kicked the people out of their homes. We just made sure that they didn't go to waste. Anyway, it's pretty hard to feel sorry for somebody when you're pulling up bathroom tile because the floor underneath it is rotted from piss. Those people lived like fucking animals.

  17. #9457
    Quote Originally Posted by ptwonline View Post
    Ah. To use a rather pejorative term: the modern day carpetbaggers. It's good to have money to invest and exploit the people suffering in hard times.
    I don't really see how providing a service for a reasonable market value is exploiting anyone. I know I'm pretty frikkin' glad to have access to good rental places (since I have no desire to own in the forseeable future).

  18. #9458
    Did you guys know Big Bird was funded by communist!! Clearly PBS is the reason we are so in debt to China lol


  19. #9459
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyyn View Post
    The banks are the ones who kicked the people out of their homes. We just made sure that they didn't go to waste. Anyway, it's pretty hard to feel sorry for somebody when you're pulling up bathroom tile because the floor underneath it is rotted from piss. Those people lived like fucking animals.
    I've seen the same shit. It can be pretty appalling. I helped fix up a duplex that had been a crackhouse. We had neighbors coming over and thanking us for buying it and turning it around, as it had basically been a den of crime for years on end until it was foreclosed on.

    On the flip side, I've been part of doing minor rehab work on houses that were owned by old folks that were just moving into smaller or cheaper places. It takes all kinds.

  20. #9460
    Quote Originally Posted by FusedMass View Post
    You thought it would be funny to mention your family pocked the wealth while American's struggled to maintain food on the table. Yes this irates me on a moral level. Exploiting or taking advantages of people who are already facing hard times. It's..unthinkable. It's like a man selling blankets a homeless shelter for ten bucks a pop. Sure he makes a profit but he's taking advantage of people in a hard situation.
    It's not unthinkable: it's reality. This is when people make the really big money: when they can exploit others in need. From a market standpoint I see it as amoral. As a human being I hate to see it happen though.

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