U.S. Presidential race - Democrat Discussion

[belfpala]

Foreign politics debate and no mention of the Euro Crisis? Really?

Romney mentioned Greece several times. But only in reference to Obama taking us there.

[ptwonline]

Foreign politics debate and no mention of the Euro Crisis? Really?

Euro crisis seems to be more of an economic issue, not a foreign policy issue.

[apepi]

Romney mentioned Greece several times. But only in reference to Obama taking us there.

The only thing I could remember was Romney said that he did not want us turn into Greece or something like that?

Euro crisis seems to be more of an economic issue, not a foreign policy issue.

It may be a economic issue for The E.U. but us assisting in it and our leaders thoughts on it, is an foreign issue.

[belfpala]

The only thing I could remember was Romney said that he did not want us turn into Greece or something like that?

Correct, yes.

[ptwonline]

If Obama were smart he would take war off the table completely, unless Iran attacks first, which they won't. He would probably get a huge portion of the Ron Paul/Gary Johnson vote if he took such a bold stand.

Unfortunately, people are so fucking scared of what a nuclear Iran would look like, that he has to keep the option on the table, just to save face.

No he wouldn't that share of the vote. They oppose Obama for many reasons.

And besides, getting an extra 0.5% of the vote while losing who knows how much for being perceived as weak or else an ally of the terrrorists by Fox et al for taking war as an option off the table won't help him much.

NEVER take any option off the table unless you negotiate getting something in return. Obama should have learned that from negotiating with the terrorists--er, I mean Republicans--over things like health care reform or deficit reduction. When faced with a threat the use of physical force should be an option. The last option mind you, but still an available option.

---------- Post added 2012-10-23 at 01:12 PM ----------

It may be a economic issue for The E.U. but us assisting in it and our leaders thoughts on it, is an foreign issue.

There really is not much the US should (or even can) do to help it aside from fixing their own economy.

[Deadvolcanoes]

Show me how Paul or Johnson have any kind of platform beyond 'legalizing drugs, cutting taxes, and slashing the federal government so much that it literally crumbles'.

I'll wait.

I dont have to show you anything. You're the one that made the claim that people only vote for Ron Paul because they want 'legal weed' and think less taxes equals 'magical prosperity.' Back up your claim with facts instead of conjecture.

Here I'll even help. Do you see any kind of platform beyond 'legalizing drugs, cutting taxes, and slashing the federal government so much that it literally crumbles'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politic...ns_of_Ron_Paul

[Deleted]

Show me how Paul or Johnson have any kind of platform beyond 'legalizing drugs, cutting taxes, and slashing the federal government so much that it literally crumbles'.

I'll wait.

Many of the people who are for Johnson in particular do it because he's the best (of the three) when it comes to civil liberties. Stop spying on Americans without warrant, restore due process, get rid of the patriot act, TSA, things like that.

Also, those who want to slow down or dismantle the war on drugs aren't just pot smokers. The war on drugs, especially under Obama, is taking a significant toll on the economy and is waged by infringing upon civil liberties. It also reduces safety.

[smelltheglove]

Many of the people who are for Johnson in particular do it because he's the best (of the three) when it comes to civil liberties. Stop spying on Americans, get rid of the patriot act, TSA, things like that.

i would consider that a pretty strong motivator. unfortunately i cant agree with too much of the rest of his policies

[Felya]

Also, those who want to slow down or dismantle the war on drugs aren't just pot smokers. The war on drugs, especially under Obama, is taking a significant toll on the economy and is waged by infringing upon civil liberties. It also reduces safety.

What was special about Obama and the war on drugs? The fact that more states had legalization on the ballot, than anytime before? Even such hippy joints like Colorado...

[mistuhbull]

What was special about Obama and the war on drugs? The fact that more states had legalization on the ballot, than anytime before? Even such hippy joints like Colorado...

"we're not going to go after medical cannabis"
3 years later
"we're shutting down dispensaries lololololol"

[Deleted]

What was special about Obama and the war on drugs? The fact that more states had legalization on the ballot, than anytime before? Even such hippy joints like Colorado...

Obama has accelerated the war on drugs. They use more wiretaps (without warrant ofcourse), have more funding, weapons, raids etc than before. Also, more Medical Marijuana dispensaries have been raided and shut down by the Feds than before, even as these were legal under state law.

And the problem with cracking down on the illegal side of narcotics, is that people who have done nothing wrong get hurt by these warrantless wiretaps and raids on wrong houses etc. The problem with cracking down on the legal side of narcotics (like medical marijuana dispensaries) is probably obvious.

[Felya]

"we're not going to go after medical cannabis"
3 years later
"we're shutting down dispensaries lololololol"

My problem isn't that he was bad for it, it's the espeacialy part I have trouble with. We are closer now to have decriminalized, than we have been from the point it started. Was he espeacialy worse than Reagan, Bush, Clinton or the other Bush?

[Kasierith]

Obama has accelerated the war on drugs. They use more wiretaps (without warrant ofcourse), have more funding, weapons, raids etc than before. Also, more Medical Marijuana dispensaries have been raided and shut down by the Feds than before, even as these were legal under state law.

Oh please..... since when does Obama supersede legislative law? The restriction against medical marijuana on a federal level is a stated law that the FDA is required to follow by congress. If anything, Obama has reduced the war on drugs by issuing unofficial statements to agents to prioritize all other cases above anyone using medical marijuana with a prescription.

Obama isn't some omnipotent octopus moving every hand of the federal government. His role is restricted to that of the executive branch.

To expand on this, and show that Obama is in fact going in the opposite direction that you believe: http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-on-drugs.html

[belfpala]

Obama isn't some omnipotent octopus moving every hand of the federal government. His role is restricted to that of the executive branch.

Oboctopus!

[Catta]

Many of the people who are for Johnson in particular do it because he's the best (of the three) when it comes to civil liberties. Stop spying on Americans without warrant, restore due process, get rid of the patriot act, TSA, things like that.

Also, those who want to slow down or dismantle the war on drugs aren't just pot smokers. The war on drugs, especially under Obama, is taking a significant toll on the economy and is waged by infringing upon civil liberties. It also reduces safety.

Why get rid of the TSA...?

[Felya]

Obama has accelerated the war on drugs. They use more wiretaps (without warrant ofcourse), have more funding, weapons, raids etc than before. Also, more Medical Marijuana dispensaries have been raided and shut down by the Feds than before, even as these were legal under state law.

But, that ignores that there are far more dispensaries out now than any time from when the law started. Saying he closed down more dispensaries, is also a reflection of how many and how open they are. There are far more dispensaries now, than ever before. They didn't have this many pot stores when the shit was legal. I live in Seattle and for the last couple of years, we have had ads in local news papers for them. We had raids, but ones that seem to only target those that break other ordinance. Raids that don't even hit half of the places that operate in the open. If you think things have gotten worse or even espeacialy worse under Obama, you are ignoring reality.

[Lenonis]

Obama isn't some omnipotent octopus moving every hand of the federal government. His role is restricted to that of the executive branch.

There are way way way way way way way way way too many people who think the president is omnipotent in our government. I keep screaming to everyone who will listen that Congress is a much bigger problem but no one cares. It gives me a sad.

[smelltheglove]

Why get rid of the TSA...?

because it's bullshit. they dont actually make anything safer, if you've been through american airports lately the TSA comes across as a jobs program for people that are unemployable in the best of economies. there is a serious problem with oversight, and they are apparently unanswerable to anybody. airport personnel are not able to take complaints about TSA, they have to refer you to TSA's site, which, surprise surprise, has no means of taking complaints or feedback (my mom just went through this). there have been incidents of TSA men patting down women they find attractive. when the women ask for a woman agent for the pat down they are told that one would not be available for half an hour or more, and end up consenting to being groped.

tldr: poor/no oversight, agents not qualified to wield a toilet brush let alone authority, doesnt actually increase security

[Kasierith]

because it's bullshit. they dont actually make anything safer, if you've been through american airports lately the TSA comes across as a jobs program for people that are unemployable in the best of economies.

Its interesting to note that, going from the many times I have flown back and forth from my country to JFK international, US security is far more rigorous and...... invasive than Russian airport security.

[Felya]

tldr: poor/no oversight, agents not qualified to wield a toilet brush let alone authority, doesnt actually increase security

They act like cops, but without any training and screenings cops go through.