1. #12041
    The Insane Bakis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    That's absofuckinglutely makes him seem like a crazy man. What in the fucking fuck are people like that doing in charge of the country?
    Making sure the separation of church and state gets bypassed. He is a nutcase who change his opinion more often than a weather vane.
    To alot of people that is a quality feature for a possible president.

  2. #12042
    Quote Originally Posted by Chonogo View Post
    Based on the link from NPR, it sounds like both, although Wells did give a more rational synopsis than Vyxn. The NPR link still goes on to say that Woodward faulted both Obama and Boehner for not living up to the moment. Now if Vyxn came across more eloquently, he might've swayed people. Instead he got the name of the book wrong and called Wells a liar, along with recusing Boehner of any wrong-doing.
    Indeed, I don't actually doubt that Vyxn read the book. I just doubt his ability to read for comprehension and garner useful information from content. Perhaps I'm unfairly biased towards people that aren't really able to express themselves well, but life has taught me that such people are rarely good understanding much of anything.

  3. #12043
    Titan Kalyyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chonogo View Post
    Just think of the outrage in this country if John Kerry came out the day of 9/11/01 and say this was a huge foreign diplomatic failure by Bush that got Americans killed. I guess we were all Americans back then. This country, for weeks and months, was focused on one thing. WHO DID THIS? Yes, they did come back to figure out what we did wrong, but that was months and months later, not the same damn day. It's despicable.
    I think Obama's biggest mistake was the tone he took. He basically came out with his fists down, and people started swinging. On 9/11, the speech George Bush gave could be summarized as "We are going to find these fuckers and we are going to burn them to death". President Obama likes to take a bit more diplomatic approach. Trouble is, that also leaves him wide open for attack.

    Also, isn't it weird to think that George Bush was extremely popular at one point? I mean, good lord look at this

    He got two standing ovations before he even said a word o_O

  4. #12044
    Not to mention he is wrong in that Woodward is actually fairly conservative, but in a more rational Economist sort of conservative. You know the kind that would still want Nixon gone for what he did.

    It does tie back to his ridiculous claims that the Economist can't be conservative because they backed Obama over Romney.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  5. #12045
    Quote Originally Posted by Chonogo View Post

    Congress, on the other hand, is another matter altogether. I worry what a Democrat senate will do if Romney wins. I fear they'll use the same tactics the Republicans have over the past 4 years. And I worry that if Obama wins, we'll have 4 more years of the tactics used over the past 4 years.
    your assumption is correct here is the latest quote from Harry Ried

    "Mitt Romney's fantasy that Senate Democrats will work with him to pass his 'severely conservative' agenda is laughable,"

    looks like the only way we can get anything done if either party has control of the WH the Senate and the House

    But lets not forget what we got from the Democrats when they had control we got a 800 billion stimulus package that didn't meet the promises they claim it would and allot of that money went to Obama donors to failed Green Companies and a health care bill that the majority of America doesn't want

    PS if you don't like my message that fine but attacking my punctuation is just a sign you have no creditable argument with the message

  6. #12046
    I would say the video of Bush doesn't so much show anything about him, but that liberals genuinely wanted to band together. Conservatives, on the other hand, began salivating at the opportunity to attack Obama the moment a single, very minor, attack happened.

  7. #12047
    The Insane smrund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    your assumption is correct here is the latest quote from Harry Ried

    "Mitt Romney's fantasy that Senate Democrats will work with him to pass his 'severely conservative' agenda is laughable,"

    looks like the only way we can get anything done if either party has control of the WH the Senate and the House

    But lets not forget what we got from the Democrats when they had control we got a 800 billion stimulus package that didn't meet the promises they claim it would and allot of that money went to Obama donors to failed Green Companies and a health care bill that the majority of America doesn't want

    PS if you don't like my message that fine but attacking my punctuation is just a sign you have no creditable argument with the message
    No single party, Republican, Democrat or otherwise having total control over all our branches of government is good. If you think that's a good idea, I kindly point you to the USSR. Worked our pretty well for them...not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
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    Sometimes life gives you lemons, other times life gives you boobies. Life is always better with more boobies.
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  8. #12048
    Plus there's a qualitative difference between a minority party that doesn't want to roll over and accept things that are anathema to their ideology and a minority party that doesn't let anything happen regardless of how much they might agree with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  9. #12049
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    That's absofuckinglutely makes him seem like a crazy man. What in the fucking fuck are people like that doing in charge of the country?
    I don't know, I thought he handled it pretty well. I personally think religious views in general are a bit odd, but I respect that people believe them. As for abortion, he makes it clear that his church doesn't try to force people in his church to be pro-life, but that he himself is, which is a point of view I disagree with but is very prevalent in the US.
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  10. #12050
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    I personally think religious views in general are a bit odd, but I respect that people believe them.
    I have absolutely no idea why. If someone says something that's plainly fucking stupid, I don't care what terms they couch it in. When a man is speaking about a second coming of a human incarnation of God in Missouri, I'm inclined to disregard him as fit to participate in rational conversations going forward.

  11. #12051
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    I don't know, I thought he handled it pretty well. I personally think religious views in general are a bit odd, but I respect that people believe them. As for abortion, he makes it clear that his church doesn't try to force people in his church to be pro-life, but that he himself is, which is a point of view I disagree with but is very prevalent in the US.
    and then says "that's what the church says (we shouldn't force it on others) but I disagree"

    It's nuts
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

  12. #12052
    We're pretty good as a species of maintaining rational and irrational simultaneously. Double think is in our blood.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  13. #12053
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    We're pretty good as a species of maintaining rational and irrational simultaneously. Double think is in our blood.
    That's true enough, and it's something I generally try to acknowledge defer to. Cognitive dissonance is a very, very powerful force. I just don't want to have to rely on it coming through at the right moment for someone that has the most powerful military in history at his fingertips. If a man can stand there and tell with a straight face that there's a second coming of a human form of God in Missouri, I don't trust his decision making process. I'm sure I believe something questionable, but nothing even in the vicinity of that shit.

  14. #12054
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    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    No single party, Republican, Democrat or otherwise having total control over all our branches of government is good. If you think that's a good idea, I kindly point you to the USSR. Worked our pretty well for them...not.
    Come on, we didn't mess up that badly, did we?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I have absolutely no idea why. If someone says something that's plainly fucking stupid, I don't care what terms they couch it in. When a man is speaking about a second coming of a human incarnation of God in Missouri, I'm inclined to disregard him as fit to participate in rational conversations going forward.
    It all comes down to the purpose of the president; the president is supposed to be the face of the nation, the leader of its executive processes and the commander of the armed forces. While the president doesn't exactly have to be relatable to the people, an absolutely massive existing rift is ultimately indicative that he is not the man for the job.

  15. #12055
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Plus there's a qualitative difference between a minority party that doesn't want to roll over and accept things that are anathema to their ideology and a minority party that doesn't let anything happen regardless of how much they might agree with it.
    compromise is your majority bending over for my minority. didnt you know that?

  16. #12056
    The Insane smrund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    Come on, we didn't mess up that badly, did we?
    Actually, no you didn't. But part of the USSR's fall was a direct result of the lack of "new blood" and new ideas, or even contrary ideas into the overall leadership, in fact it's STILL holding Russia back considering that many of your state institutions are still run by the same old men who ran them in the USSR.

    It's kinda like Fox News, they have their moments, but on the whole, when you get that many people who all think the same thing in the same room, it's just groupthink to the extreme. You get so absorbed in how right everyone thinks you are because you think they're so right that when someone shows up with an alternate opinion they're dismissed in whole, not on the merits of their opinion, but because their opinion is simply: different.

    It's not just the USSR, it can be seen in nations and civilizations throughout history. When everyone is too busy congratulating each other on how right they are because they all agree, it's easy to forget there's still room to be wrong.

    It all comes down to the purpose of the president; the president is supposed to be the face of the nation, the leader of its executive processes and the commander of the armed forces. While the president doesn't exactly have to be relatable to the people, an absolutely massive existing rift is ultimately indicative that he is not the man for the job.
    Religion aside, Romney is economically and socially disconnected with the vast, vast majority of America. Sure, the position he has in life is where the vast majority of America want to be...but it's not where they are. And wishing they were him won't make them him, but he plays right into that. "Elect me and you can be me." It's like those Victoria Secret commercials, "Wear this bra, and you're as sexy as I am." or those beer commercials: "Drink this beer and you'll be a sex god like me!"

    Everyone knows they're not true....but we all wish on some level that they were...like the Old Spice commercial

    Last edited by smrund; 2012-11-03 at 02:58 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    People in cars cause accidents. Accidents in cars cause people.
    Sometimes life gives you lemons, other times life gives you boobies. Life is always better with more boobies.
    Blizzard removed my subscription from WoD's features, it'll be added sometime later.
    And thus I give you: MALE contraception!

  17. #12057
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    Actually, no you didn't. But part of the USSR's fall was a direct result of the lack of "new blood" and new ideas, or even contrary ideas into the overall leadership, in fact it's STILL holding Russia back considering that many of your state institutions are still run by the same old men who ran them in the USSR.
    Well, my question was more along the lines of being lighthearted than a serious statement, but ultimately there is a massive multitude of circumstances that made the fall of the USSR inevitable. Although, I am overall a supporter of Putin, and see a great deal of the negativity towards him a result of opposing medias pandering not to Russians, but to the rest of the world, garnering support by tying their opponent to communism. Given that even with my political viewpoints, I've come to the US for my upper education and truly love the time I spend here, I'm certain you'd agree that I'm hardly one to keep a closed mind of the world around me. But that's a discussion for completely different thread, so I'll leave it at that.

    Religion aside, Romney is economically and socially disconnected with the vast, vast majority of America. Sure, the position he has in life is where the vast majority of America want to be...but it's not where they are. And wishing they were him won't make them him, but he plays right into that. "Elect me and you can be me." It's like those Victoria Secret commercials, "Wear this bra, and you're as sexy as I am." or those beer commercials: "Drink this beer and you'll be a sex god like me!"

    Everyone knows they're not true....but we all wish on some level that they were...like the Old Spice commercial
    Ya, I definitely get what you're saying. Even coming from the outside, I can see the massive disconnect there. In a wide variety of areas. He hardly even had a connection to his own ideals, it seems. Personally, consistency is one of the most defining aspects of someone's character. It shows that your actions have validity, and shows that if you promise to do something, I can trust that you would come through with it. I see no consistency with Romney, on any level. All of his actions seemed directly oriented towards "What can i do to be president" rather than "what plans can I come up with that would help the people."
    Last edited by Kasierith; 2012-11-03 at 04:56 AM.

  18. #12058
    The Insane smrund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    Well, my question was more along the lines of being lighthearted than a serious statement, but ultimately there is a massive multitude of circumstances that made the fall of the USSR inevitable. Although, I am overall a supporter of Putin, and see a great deal of the negativity towards him a result of medias pandering not to Russians, but to the rest of the world, garnering support by tying their opponent to communism. Given that even with my political viewpoints, I've come to the US for my upper education, I'm certain you'd agree that I'm hardly one to keep a closed mind of the world around me. But that's a discussion for completely different thread, so I'll leave it at that.
    I don't like Putin, and I think Medvedev is a moron(who makes a great puppet), but I agree that Putin is probably the best thing for Russia at the moment. If there's anything Russia could use heaping doses of, it's consistency and strong leadership, even if it's got that good 'old boy KGB smell to it.

    Ya, I definitely get what you're saying. Even coming from the outside, I can see the massive disconnect there. In a wide variety of areas. He hardly even had a connection to his own ideals, it seems. Personally, consistency is one of the most defining aspects of someone's character. It shows that your actions have validity, and shows that if you promise to do something, I can trust that you would come through with it. I see no consistency with Romney, on any level. All of his actions seemed directly oriented towards "What can i do to be president" rather than "what plans can I come up with that would help the people."
    Exactly, but that's been his business strategy through Bain for decades. Tell people he'll give them what they want, then sell them to the highest bidder. Even his list of "successful" companies makes up some of the most quickly dying name-brands in the country.
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    People in cars cause accidents. Accidents in cars cause people.
    Sometimes life gives you lemons, other times life gives you boobies. Life is always better with more boobies.
    Blizzard removed my subscription from WoD's features, it'll be added sometime later.
    And thus I give you: MALE contraception!

  19. #12059
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyyn View Post
    I think Obama's biggest mistake was the tone he took. He basically came out with his fists down, and people started swinging. On 9/11, the speech George Bush gave could be summarized as "We are going to find these fuckers and we are going to burn them to death". President Obama likes to take a bit more diplomatic approach. Trouble is, that also leaves him wide open for attack.

    Also, isn't it weird to think that George Bush was extremely popular at one point? I mean, good lord look at this
    He got two standing ovations before he even said a word o_O
    Bush's initial response and handling of the aftermath was presidential. He deserved the popularity in my opinion.

    Unfortunately, I think it devolved and unraveled when we decided our best plan of attack was going into Iraq.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-03 at 12:12 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    That's true enough, and it's something I generally try to acknowledge defer to. Cognitive dissonance is a very, very powerful force. I just don't want to have to rely on it coming through at the right moment for someone that has the most powerful military in history at his fingertips. If a man can stand there and tell with a straight face that there's a second coming of a human form of God in Missouri, I don't trust his decision making process. I'm sure I believe something questionable, but nothing even in the vicinity of that shit.
    It reminds me of something that Neil DeGrasse Tyson said once, that even some of our greatest scientists invoked God in certain areas. For example, Newton, the father of modern physics, couldn't explain planetary stuff, so it was God's work. Copernicus, who figured out planetary movements and orbits and such amazing stuff in his time, saw the universe(stuff he couldn't understand) as God's work.

    We as a species use irrational behavior to explain the unexplained. Always have, always will. It's why I don't begrudge someone because they have religious beliefs. They cross the line, IMO, when they want to project their religious beliefs into shaping society or passing laws based on those religious beliefs.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-03 at 12:18 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    your assumption is correct here is the latest quote from Harry Ried

    "Mitt Romney's fantasy that Senate Democrats will work with him to pass his 'severely conservative' agenda is laughable,"

    looks like the only way we can get anything done if either party has control of the WH the Senate and the House

    But lets not forget what we got from the Democrats when they had control we got a 800 billion stimulus package that didn't meet the promises they claim it would and allot of that money went to Obama donors to failed Green Companies and a health care bill that the majority of America doesn't want

    PS if you don't like my message that fine but attacking my punctuation is just a sign you have no creditable argument with the message
    Talking points aside(stimulus was watered down in an attempt to get Republicans to vote for it, health care bill was pretty much a carbon copy of the Republican approach to health care for almost 2 decades), your point is correct. We shouldn't need a super majority to get things done.

  20. #12060
    Let's be very clear though - Romney isn't saying that the mysteries of the universe are indecipherable, and that he believes there's a deity behind it, he's referring to the literal appearance of a human who is God in Missouri. Please read the italicized back to yourself. Do it again if still seems just fine. If it still seems fine to you, to each their own. I'm not interested in trusting someone that can talk about such a thing with a straight face with Presidency of the United States though.

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