U.S. Presidential race - Democrat Discussion

[cubby]

It comes from a couple areas. 1. Obama himself (or his campaign) and 2. Obama supporters.

In the first case, Obama has a serious ego complex. They set up stages to present him like he's in a Greek Amphitheatre. In tons of his speeches they set the mic to have tons of reverb even when he's in tiny venues so he always sounds like he's thundering from above. Disagree if you want, but this video of his post-election speech shows he's got a really inflated opinion of himself. In his brain - before he came along sick people never got better. In his brain, he really was going to heal the planet, drop the ocean levels, yadda yadda yadda. The man really is an arrogant toerag.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0tuAJkbUWU

And then there what are called "Obama Zombies". A lot of them can be found just clicking around these very threads. To an Obama Zombie the man can simply do no wrong. No matter how blatant his lies are, they forgive them. No matter how inaccurate he is, they make excuses for it. No matter how badly he does, how much he screws up, or how inept Obama is on any particular subject they just keep licking up his puke and calling it nectar.

Now, that's just what partisan ideologues do on both sides so it is nothing new. But with Obama it has really gone to levels that are patently absurd. People like the "Obama Stash" woman, or the "Obama phone" kook - people that are just going around worshiping the man for no good reason - thinking that he's giving them money personally from his own stash. Crap like that.

So people who see Obama for what he really is can't help but mock this ridiculous Messiah-like complex that so many people are desperately tryint ot construct around him. Because - in the objective analysis - Obama is a small, petty, arrogant, mediocre twit of a man whose only real accomplishment to date is cramming an unconstitutional health care law through congress against the will of majority of Americans because he knows better than them (yet another example of his arrogance).

It's kind of sad to see people put up a youtube video to "prove" a point they're trying to make. Youtube can prove anything, any time you want. It makes your argument weaker, every time.

Plus, again, your view on Obama is a little nutty. He's brilliant and a leader, with a good vision for the country. If the GOP can get the hell out of the way, or better yet, help out and stop obstructing growth in jobs, we could start to fix the real problems.

[Grizzly Willy]

Part time hiring going into the holiday season happens every year...

Can you show that the bump is in line with past years?

[Deleted]

Can you show that the bump is in line with past years?

It's seasonally adjusted, these bumps are evened out throughout the year with software.

[Grizzly Willy]

I'm asking him to elaborate. I already know your explanation, Diurdi.

[Lenonis]

I was going to respond to Riddler's post, but the "need new word for rhetoric" was dialed to 11 and it made my head hurt. Plus it was basically one long personal attack on a guy he's never met...which says something.

As it was stated before -- the whole star struck thing happens (for reasons I'll never understand) around any famous person with any semblance of charisma. You can hate Obama all you want, but you have to still acknowledge the guy is very charismatic. As was Reagan. As was Clinton. As are many hollywood celebrities. Doesn't mean jack squat about their abilities or intelligence other than that they know how to work a crowd.

You'd see the exact same thing with Romney if he had the same level of charisma. But he doesn't -- so you don't see the same sort of fandom as you do around Obama.

It's way more about human and societal psychology than anything else.

Hrm...guess I did respond to his post after all.

[GreatOak]

It's kind of sad to see people put up a youtube video to "prove" a point they're trying to make. Youtube can prove anything, any time you want. It makes
your argument weaker, every time.

Plus, again, your view on Obama is a little nutty. He's brilliant and a leader, with a good vision for the country. If the GOP can get the hell out of the way, or better yet, help out and stop obstructing growth in jobs, we could start to fix the real problems.

No. I cannot morally support a candidate who bombs children and their families, kills Americans without charge or trial, detains Americans without charge or trial indefinitely, gives handouts to corporations and banks instead of the middle class, and continues warrantless spying on citizens. Congress can't be blamed for that.

If you want to vote for the lesser of two evil, I get it. Just realize he's a piece of trash.

[oblivionx]

I'm asking him to elaborate. I already know your explanation, Diurdi.

At best it's worthless jobs, at worst it's just manipulation of the numbers by this corrupt administration.

It's probably both.

[Lenonis]

No. I cannot morally support a candidate who bombs children and their families, kills Americans without charge or trial, detains Americans without charge or trial indefinitely, gives handouts to corporations and banks instead of the middle class, and continues warrantless spying on citizens. Congress can't be blamed for that.

The question ends up if you think it would be better under Romney -- which when it comes to military matters it seems unlikely at best.

[oblivionx]

The question ends up if you think it would be better under Romney -- which when it comes to military matters it seems unlikely at best.

It's an issue with Obama because he rabidly attacked Bush and the republicans and ended up doing the same or worse.

[Grizzly Willy]

At best it's worthless jobs, at worst it's just manipulation of the numbers by this corrupt administration.

It's probably both.

How would the Obama administration be manipulating these numbers, and could you prove it? Also, what's your basis for the charge that they would manipulate the numbers in the first place. I know of some of the shady things the administration is doing, but I'm interested in seeing what your evidence for this notion is.

Also, you didn't really answer my original question. You said that this bump occurs every year around the holidays. I think that's a reasonable assumption, but as Diurdi has said, this bump is larger than previous bumps since it takes into consideration the data from previous years. Are you rescinding that statement with the charge that the jobs are worthless?

[Lenonis]

It's an issue with Obama because he rabidly attacked Bush and the republicans and ended up doing the same or worse.

Oh trust me, Obama's a big flop in my book when it comes to his decisions around the military. The only things I give him for are that he isn't extending the wars and keeping to the timetables for withdrawl, and that he has moved to actions that don't put our troops in harm's way (drones, etc.).

That all being said, I'd prefer much less romping around the globe period.

There's not a lot of difference at the end of the day between the current Dems and the GOP on military matters. However Romney does seem to be itching for even more conflicts and an even bigger military. I'd rather the status quo over that, although it is certainly not what I'd pick if I had more than a binary choice.

[FusedMass]

It's unbelieve Mitt Just said at a press conference that the number is wrong. Claiming the real number is around ten percent because "People stopped looking for work. While Obama camp is claiming a victory and a sign that things are moving in the right direction. Two separate very different views.

[oblivionx]

How would the Obama administration be manipulating these numbers, and could you prove it? Also, what's your basis for the charge that they would manipulate the numbers in the first place. I know of some of the shady things the administration is doing, but I'm interested in seeing what your evidence for this notion is.

Also, you didn't really answer my original question. You said that this bump occurs every year around the holidays. I think that's a reasonable assumption, but as Diurdi has said, this bump is larger than previous bumps since it takes into consideration the data from previous years. Are you rescinding that statement with the charge that the jobs are worthless?

I don't know how unemployment numbers are generated and neither do you and neither does Diurdi.

I'll just wait and see what people that actually do have to say about it.

[Gunmonkey90]

I like Obama... Hope he win the coming election.. Romney reminds me of the typical douche that thinks he is better than everyone else...
Go Obama =)

[Grizzly Willy]

I don't know how unemployment numbers are generated and neither do you and neither does Diurdi.

I'll just wait and see what people that actually do have to say about it.

Which is why I don't make claims about stuff I don't know anything about, and why I question your assertion that Obama's administration is manipulating the numbers. If you can provide past examples, I'll be more than willing to believe you.

[oblivionx]

Oh trust me, Obama's a big flop in my book when it comes to his decisions around the military. The only things I give him for are that he isn't extending the wars and keeping to the timetables for withdrawl, and that he has moved to actions that don't put our troops in harm's way (drones, etc.).

That all being said, I'd prefer much less romping around the globe period.

There's not a lot of difference at the end of the day between the current Dems and the GOP on military matters. However Romney does seem to be itching for even more conflicts and an even bigger military. I'd rather the status quo over that, although it is certainly not what I'd pick if I had more than a binary choice.

I've seen nothing neocon about Romney.

I prefer the Ron Paul ideas regarding our military footprint, with a little bit of Reagan mixed in to keep them honest.

[ptwonline]

It's unbelieve Mitt Just said at a press conference that the number is wrong. Claiming the real number is around ten percent because "People stopped looking for work. While Obama camp is claiming a victory and a sign that things are moving in the right direction. Two separate very different views.

As usual, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Lots of people HAVE given up looking for work and more accurate measurements of the unemployment rate would show it higher. But at the same time things ARE moving in the right direction.

Just as an aside, Canada created 52,000 jobs in September. Canada is 1/10th the size of the US, so it would be the same as the US creating about 520,000 jobs. Those are the numbers that the US SHOULD be putting up for a full recovery. Instead, the US gets these anemic ~150K numbers every month. It's still progress, but the slowness of the recovery just shows how weak the underlying fundamentals of the US economy really are, and how big picture things need to change in the long run.

[FusedMass]

I like Obama... Hope he win the coming election.. Romney reminds me of the typical douche that thinks he is better than everyone else...
Go Obama =)

I support this message.

[Lenonis]

Claiming the real number is around ten percent because "People stopped looking for work. While Obama camp is claiming a victory and a sign that things are moving in the right direction. Two separate very different views.

One of the things that gets on my nerves when unemployment is discussed is that people mix up the definitions all the time.

"Unemployment" as represented by the numbers reported has a very specific meaning that includes a specific group of people.

"Underemployed" is a different group.

Then there's the "hidden" unemployed, or whatever you want to call them -- people who stopped looking for work and stopped collecting unemployment.

But some of those people are stay at home parents. Others may be taking care of a sick relative. Not everyone drops out of the workforce because of "bad economy juju."

So when person A talks about a number that is just Unemployment and person B talks about Unemployment + Underemployment -- then you get a muddled argument that most people can't makes heads or tails out of.

[oblivionx]

Which is why I don't make claims about stuff I don't know anything about, and why I question your assertion that Obama's administration is manipulating the numbers. If you can provide past examples, I'll be more than willing to believe you.

timing and desperation, desperation and timing.

This is a timid teleprompter reading ineffectual leader without any plan or even a clue.

He had access to the job numbers before the debate, if they were so solid he would have been in his "we've turned the corner, my policies ARE working mode". He wasn't, he was clueless and rudderless.