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  1. #1

    Why do sub numbers matter to you?

    I feel like the mmo community gets caught up in inter-game politics, company politics, and flame wars a little too easily these days. Rarely do I see discussions about the games themselves. What parts we like or dislike. Usually its just some troll who says "X is better in every way possible" or "enjoy the pandas".

    The entire idea that sub numbers will decide if you continue to play or not is retarded.

    If your server is active and alive (many of which are. don't know where you guys are getting this "they are all empty" crap. Only like 5 servers are "light" at 6pm. Most are heavy/standard) then you have no reason to quit over subs. If your server is light, and you want a bigger one, move to fatman, swiftsure(?), or my personal fav iron council. Hell, fatman/swiftsure had ques this weekend.

    Do subs decide if a game is fun? No. Any change in subs will not dictate how much fun you personally find the game.

    If you still quit. Then its because you don't find the game fun. If you don't find the game fun. Please stop playing it. Its not for you and might never be. I'd rather you went and played a different game then QQ over random crap, trying to pass it off as legitimate reasons (like FPS issues).

    I really think that people should stop. Take a breath. and think about why they play video games.

    What are you trying to get out of it?

    Ideally fun.

    Fun is a complicated topic because its subjective. Many aspects of "Fun" appeal to different people. However, I have never heard of "having 3+ million players" as a component of it. I have heard "having people to play with" is fun. And you will have that should you take it upon yourself to get to know people on your server or come to the higher pop servers. Even on a light server all you need is 7 people to enjoy the vast majority of the game content. 3 if you only want to pvp. I can guarantee you that there's more then 7 other people on your server.

    I am just baffled and disappointed in the mmo community as a whole at this point.

    The occasional joke about a game is fine (lolvanish). The constructive criticism of its mechanics is fine. Even dissecting the over arcing plots.

    But this?


    WoW is going to be around for at least 3 more years. Swtor will be around for a least 2 more years. Rift has been slowly gaining subs since its initial launch loss despite how much people keep trying to assure me its dead. Its not.

    We are going to be entering a new era where multiple AAA mmos co-exist. It will stop being a "king of the hill" fight. We should accept and adapt rather then try and tear down anything that isn't "our game" because the competition will help the genre as a whole.

    Many out there are upset that mmo's haven't evolved much. That is because the market has been dominated for 7 years. If wow does have to share mmo players then it will have to adapt to the new market and becoming competitive again. Art through adversity.



    TLDR: Subs don't matter. Content does. More mmos = better mmos. Swtor, rift, wow, ddo, dcu, eve, tera, ect will be here for longer then 3 months.
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  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by CommanderSheephard View Post
    TLDR: Subs don't matter. Content does. More mmos = better mmos. Swtor, rift, wow, ddo, dcu, eve, tera, ect will be here for longer then 3 months.
    I think subs matter for a lot of people, for basically a few different reasons. I'll list a few that come to mind. Granted, not everyone cares about the sub counts. Still, for a game like SWTOR, with so much hype, you can't help but wonder about the numbers. Most people, I think, will fall into the last two categories I list here.

    ·Justification for the fanboys. "My game didn't fail! I has over 1.5 million subs, eat it bitches!"

    ·Justification for the haters. "Ha! Only 1.7 million subs!? Not a WoW-killer, bitches!"

    ·Swaying for the on-the-fencers. "I hate my current MMO. Hmm, this game had a lot of hype, but it (only) managed 1.7 mil subs. Think I'll try it/not try it."

    ·Curiosity for fans. "I love this game. I wonder how well it's going to do, number-wise, and hope it can stay afloat."

    ·Curiosity for haters. "Fuck that game. I hope the numbers tell that it's falling hard!"

    You might think the last two sound a lot like the first two, but they're very different. The Justification types care far more about rubbing their version of the numbers into the faces of those on the opposite side of the fence. The Curiosity types care far more about the numbers in terms of their own views, though they oftentimes switch over to become a Justification type after they receive evidence supporting their opinion.

    I care about sub numbers in terms of being a #4. I want enough subs to keep content coming out at a regular pace. If only 500k were still playing the game, I knew there'd be trouble on the horizon and to expect to have to look for a new game. As awesome as SWTOR is, for me, a game that would sink so quickly isn't going to get the support (such as Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, when Sony pulled all of it's Devs after it flat out failed) to keep people interested.
    Formerly known here as Nakaya_Kilrogg.
    I don't play Nak anymore, I'm not on Kilrogg, and
    I haven't played WoW seriously since the end of LK.

  3. #3
    Also there are a lot of people who don't want "another game" to succeed. They enjoy their current MMO and are almost afraid that if other games succeed it's gonna somehow affect their enjoyment. You see this on the WoW forums with bashing SWTOR, you see this on Mmorpg.com with a lot of people bashing SWTOR only to praise GW2, a game that's not even out yet.. etc. When GW2 comes you'll see a lot of the same.

    Internet breeds trolls and haters faster than it births rational people.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by WZT View Post
    Also there are a lot of people who don't want "another game" to succeed. They enjoy their current MMO and are almost afraid that if other games succeed it's gonna somehow affect their enjoyment. You see this on the WoW forums with bashing SWTOR, you see this on Mmorpg.com with a lot of people bashing SWTOR only to praise GW2, a game that's not even out yet.. etc. When GW2 comes you'll see a lot of the same.

    Internet breeds trolls and haters faster than it births rational people.
    yea i agree, same crap will come when gw2 arrives. And to kilroggs post above your...sry ive stopped believeing in why yourself and others try to justify why haters bash a game, imo its purely to be a complete prick on a forum and to stir the nest for negative reactions. Mmo-champ is a clear indication of that.

  5. #5
    The number of subs decides whether or not a company will invest more money it this franchise. If it has 500.000 players they will invest less money in it then if it would have 1.000.000. So there will be less and lesser quality content for you. However if you enjoy the game there is no need to quit just because your game is loosing subs.

  6. #6
    I really dont care about the numbers as a gamer persepective, i play what i enjoy regardless of numbers.

    But from a professional standpoint being in fanance and an account i do read about the numbers, the info behind them, like to see through the tricks and the positive spin.

    It'd be a lie to say i dont want the game im playing to be healthy and do well, but its not make for break for me.

  7. #7
    For a lot of people, I think it's much like why people watch sports or follow celebrities who they'll never meet. It's daytime drama and entertainment for some people to see what's going on in the MMO/gaming world.

  8. #8
    I am Murloc! Anjerith's Avatar
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    Sub numbers do not matter to me.
    What does matter is the sense of entitlement that sub-numbers appear to give the trolls that populate these forums. Its the same false sense of importance that gets people to vote in politicians and then wonder why they did what they did a year later.
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Gold and the 'need' for it in-game is easily one of the most overblown mindsets in this community.

  9. #9
    More subs = more money for BioWare

    this means they can maintain more staff, more devs, more artists, more programmers. This means more attention will be paid to the game. More patches, more fixes, more content.

    Also, a more active server means more people to play with. which means more people that will be around your level. quicker to find groups. quicker WZ queues. more guilds, more pugs, more progression

    sub numbers are everything

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer Amulree's Avatar
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    It may be obvious to say it, but it’s used to justify arguments. For those who’ve been saying there are things wrong with World of Warcraft for a while, they were essentially told that they were clueless because subscriptions are on the rise.

    Yes, it’s naïve; but some people honestly think the number of subscribers has some bearing on the quality of a game.

    With that in mind, now that numbers are falling, those same individuals who were critical previously can now logically argue (well… Logically in the face of the previous retort) that the game must be getting worse seeing as people are ditching in large numbers.

    The sooner people realise that “popular” doesn’t mean “better”, the sooner more intelligent debates will start to appear.

  11. #11
    Legendary! Evil Inside's Avatar
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    I really dont get the hype either. I mean I understand why some people worry about it, but personally if some 300,000 for eg. people quit wow, it wont directly affect me in any way, I play the game and I have fun.

  12. #12
    If you play and you need peoples to play with you, like Warzones, you must care about subscriptions. Also, more subs = more money = more improvement for your gameplay.

  13. #13
    I am Murloc! Grading's Avatar
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    The reason subscription numbers matter is because apparently, everyone has to be the same. If you play a game, everyone else needs to as well. And the more subs, the more people are like you.

    People want to be such special snowflakes, yet can't stand people playing and liking other games. Mindblown.jpg.

    ( Oh, and by "you", I don't mean anyone here. I just mean the peopler who say sub numbers matter, for silly reasons. )

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Bongomadness View Post
    yea i agree, same crap will come when gw2 arrives. And to kilroggs post above your...sry ive stopped believeing in why yourself and others try to justify why haters bash a game, imo its purely to be a complete prick on a forum and to stir the nest for negative reactions. Mmo-champ is a clear indication of that.
    I disagree slightly, and here's why.

    Taking myself, as an example, I played WoW for over six years, and I loved the shit out of it. As time went on, I liked less and less things that were being added/done. When I would post those things (not going to here, because that would take this down a dark path), it was more out of frustration than attempted bashing. Granted, most people who post relentless negative shit are, like you said, doing it to be a prick and stir the nest. Some have legitimate concerns, and have the rationale to listen to arguments, even if they turn into a hater.

    It's the thing about internet anonymity. It just turns most people into assholes.
    Formerly known here as Nakaya_Kilrogg.
    I don't play Nak anymore, I'm not on Kilrogg, and
    I haven't played WoW seriously since the end of LK.

  15. #15
    because ppl want to see WoW go down, that`s why.

  16. #16
    Moderator Anakso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommanderSheephard View Post
    The entire idea that sub numbers will decide if you continue to play or not is retarded.
    I agree with this statement 100%
    If the game is fun, contents still coming out and you have people to play with then that's all that should matter

    However to answer the question you asked in your thread title, subs do actually matter and for a reason (definitely not to the extent that it should decide if you play, how often you play or how fun you find the game though) Number 1 reason being longevity of the game, a game is more likely to span that long stretch if its subs are increasing than if its subs are steadily decreasing, number 2 is content, a game with ample subs is more likely (though obviously not guaranteed) to get more content/better content etc obviously there are some massive exceptions to this rule and tor being so new won't be affected by sub numbers any time soon.
    The last reason is just human nature I guess, many people who enjoy something, whether it be an MMO, an RPG game, music, a t.v show etc always want other people to also enjoy that thing, who knows the reason but it could just simply be saying "10million people play the game" sounds better than saying "500k people play the game" (those are just arbitrary numbers I plucked out of my head just as a note)

    To sum up, although it is definitely stupid to let what other people do decide what you do, if you play a game or not. It is still something that people can be interested in, and can talk about with other people who also find the topic interesting.

  17. #17
    High Overlord Niwoe's Avatar
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    First of all, the numbers that ppl are pulling out of their head are arbitrary. How do you know that with 500k subscriptions a game fails? According to Jeff Strain the tipping number is 150k.

    Source: http://www.guildwars.com/events/trad...7/gcspeech.php

    Now, I realize the EA/Bioware wants more- but I think that honestly ppl need to stop crying about the numbers thing. Enjoy playing the game if you like it. Something is not great just because it's popular (ie: McDonalds).

  18. #18
    I want it to be successfull so it does not go f2p (which I hate) and will be supportet for a few years with new cool stuff.
    I dont see how you can not care if you like to play the game and the subs drop.

  19. #19
    It matters because I can't single handedly make the game survive. For the amount of money they put into this thing, they need about 2 million active players to consider it a good profit maker. (read this somewhere, I do not have the link...) I love, or loved wow's game play for 7 years but there is so much in it I hate, that swtor doesn't have such as gnomes, pandas, goblins, retarded little pets everywhere, kid heavy (yes Swtor has a few kids but the avg age is much higher, I assure you) making the content easier every patch, etc etc, I don't want to go back. If the games going to die however, its not worth a long time investment. Therefore, while I don't look for daily updates, I am interested in sub numbers.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdecker View Post
    If you play and you need peoples to play with you, like Warzones, you must care about subscriptions. Also, more subs = more money = more improvement for your gameplay.
    It's a completely false asumption. Compare Blizzard and Trion, and come back with a valid argument.

    I remember when I first started playing Wow, and no one (or at least so few that i did not notice) was comparing the subscribers between Wow and Everquest or DAOC.
    Back then people only wanted to have fun. Like the OP wrote, the MMO population has become a bunch of hooligans and ill mannered supporters for "their" game, debasing the other games and insulting each other. And if not attacking other MMO's playerbase, the Horde vs Alliance got really out of hand at last Blizzcon. i wish I kept the thread on the official forum where one guy and his girlfriend got assaulted by two teens just because they wore Alliance paraphernalia... And also the whole concert fiasco with the hate video.

    Nowadays, the gaming population has been "invaded" by hooligans who measure their "fun" by the length of their e-peens. If other people seem to have more "fun", then they must debase them by whatever mean...

    I don't care about subs. I don't care whether the game is produced by a big or a small company. If the game is fun, then I'll be playing it.

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