Best 25 man loot system?

[frontfleezy]

Loot council by far. If your LC is corrupt theres probably bigger problems dkp or epgp can't help with.

[TheViper]

We use EPGP and i hate it for a single reason: You always have to pay the full prize of the item, even if noone else would need it, not even for an off-spec. For example, i am using 403 Gurth as an arms warrior, because it's better than those 410 weapons. But now we are progressing Spine HC and it's better to use 410 weapons there, because of more steady dmg. As i respec on Fury for this given fight, i would have to pay for two 410 weapons, full prize, just for this simple fight, even if those weapon would go to maelstrom crystals otherwise -.-

How do you handle this flaw? -.-

Very simply. We have a extra button, the "offspec/sidegrade". If an item is less than 13ilvl's higher, you can select sidegrade. So in your example, you would select sidegrade, if noone else would bid, you would recieve the items for 1/10th cost. Note you cant go from lfr(384) to normal(397) for example using this, as thats 13ilvl's, it must be less than 13.

EPGP really is the objectivly fairest way to divvy up loot as long as the variables are done right (decay/ep rewards etc) so it can still be bad if done wrong, but its the best when done right.

[Halicia]

I've always been a fan of GDKP, as it has most of the merits of a traditional DKP system, while not possessing the side effect of retaining players that do NOT want to be in your guild any longer, but feel they need to cash out on loot so remain a week or two longer and promote a negative environment.

IMO, the only thing better then the thrill of downing a boss for the first time as a guild is to see a high demand item break a bidding record, knowing full well you'll be pocketing a share of that gold at the end of the raid.

[KaziOfTheSkies]

EPGP with a Loot Council to sort big upgrades Id say

[Hisao]

Loot Council is good if it isn't biased. My 25 man guild has an unbiased loot council and it works great.

[Deleted]

loot council with a basic filter under it -> have you already had an item this week -> if yes others get over you as this encourages loot spread but doens't count you out forever as often 2 people who both had loot already are rolling of for items agaisnt each other but it means tehy at least got one each isntead of rng from rolls sticking it at 3-0.
coulcil is there as a backup to override when silly things occur or things that are "for the greater good of the guild" need to happen a certain way.

-> loot rolls are rng and are often seen as fair when applied with the filter -> if you already got an item filter.

[Deleted]

THE "already had an item filter" is bs in my eyes. Weeks can go on without any loot dropping I could need, then in the same run 3 items drop that I've been needing from the start and I shouldn't be able to get all 3, even though others already had loot the previous weeks? Biggest bs ever.

We use a dkp bidding system where the officers are supervising and "for the greater good" can stop an auction or prevent someone from bidding.. But we have a lot of mature people and loot is hardly ever an issue.

[fangless]

loot council doesn't work as much as people would have you believe.

no one is going to remember every single item people have got in the past, days people maybe didn't show, days people showed up for progression versus days they just came for farm, days people screwed up in some encounter or afk'd for extended periods of time, etc. etc.

you can say your officers aren't biased, or are fair, but if they were, they why even have a loot council? why not just do a point system? the gearing up the tanks thing is at least a somewhat valid reason, but before the T13 set bonuses, the set bonuses weren't really any more important than DPS requirements or healing damage on heroic fights.


epgp is a good system with little downside. award points more for progression, and little for farm. do on time bonuses, subtract for missing without telling someone, afk's during the night, people continously screwing up, etc. that and loot is done in about 25 seconds, versus a lot longer if you're discussing tier tokens for 6-7 players.

no one will ever dispute any loot ever, and your life will be that much more calm :P

[refire]

loot council doesn't work as much as people would have you believe.

no one is going to remember every single item people have got in the past, days people maybe didn't show, days people showed up for progression versus days they just came for farm, days people screwed up in some encounter or afk'd for extended periods of time, etc. etc.

you can say your officers aren't biased, or are fair, but if they were, they why even have a loot council? why not just do a point system? the gearing up the tanks thing is at least a somewhat valid reason, but before the T13 set bonuses, the set bonuses weren't really any more important than DPS requirements or healing damage on heroic fights.


epgp is a good system with little downside. award points more for progression, and little for farm. do on time bonuses, subtract for missing without telling someone, afk's during the night, people continously screwing up, etc. that and loot is done in about 25 seconds, versus a lot longer if you're discussing tier tokens for 6-7 players.

no one will ever dispute any loot ever, and your life will be that much more calm :P

I disagree. I'm used to a loot council based on an epgp system. Basically loot was distributed so that it was easily tracked through an epgp system, same with attendance, however loot was decided by a council. The easy to use epgp mods did exactly what you described, attendance, loot history, etc. yet loot was still passed on through a loot council. It completely depends upon the guild in question though.

A more casual guild will most likely hate loot council and they'll love something like epgp. Epgp awards based upon attendance. People's feelings don't get hurt but progression also takes a back seat when your tank can't get four set because he had to waste his accumulated points on the first piece. Generally speaking from my experiences as well you'll gradually lose the good players because they will be frustrated by having to wait in line for the good pieces because someone who may not be good but showed up the same amount of as you got the good trinket, etc. Based on my experiences epgp guilds will stand upon people that don't care about progression and thus may show every raid day, and even though they may not be the best, their attendance will guarantee them loot each tier.

Loot Council on the other hand is designed for progression. I haven't gotten one heroic Prot token. Warrior tank went first, then dps shamans and warriors rolled, then resto shamans and me. It didn't make any sense in terms of progression to give heroic prot tokens to a hunter when they could have gone to someone that would actually be in on heroic spine progression. With the recent buffs and nerfs to the instance I've now got equal chance to get some tier. However prior to that it didn't make sense in terms of progression to give me a heroic token. It sucked personally but it had the larger benefit of the guild. Same goes this tier for Heroic Vial. It was broken for me the first 8 weeks of DS (scaling with melee AP not ranged AP). The loot council knew that, I knew that, and as such it would have made no sense to loot it to me.

All of the above scenarios wouldn't work in anything other than a loot council or a need greed system where people themselves know the same information like I just said. I'm sure in a top 10 guild that may be doing need/greed the hunters knew that going for a heroic Vial made no sense so they wouldn't do it. In an EPGP setup the hunter sees a 397 or 410 trinket and will take it if they have the accumulated currency same as a hunter would have taken prot tokens over a warrior or shaman this tier.

If fairness to you is determined by who was in on the kill/online then by all means epgp or dkp would be the appropriate loot system. However if fairness to you is determined by the guild succeeding or the warlock that consistently does better damage and avoids taking damage than the other warlock, getting a rare/BiS item before the warlock that is under performing then your raid would hate an epgp system and would enjoy a loot council.

Disclaimer: With all of that said, nothing will frustrate a guild quicker then an inadequate loot council that is biased. That was solved by us posting data on what was best in slot and the addition of two random council members each raid. Even if the officer core was a bit biased, the two randoms each raid could help make up for that a lot. Plus in a top 100 guild there were certainly people under performing, but it wasn't to a large degree. Most things like the cloth boots from Shannox for example would end up going to a roll just because differentiating player x from player y was a rather hard thing to do, and a random roll could fix that much easier.