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  1. #1

    Jedi Sage gearing advice needed

    Greetings fellow master Jedi's,

    I was hoping someone could help me with some advice on Sage gearing/stats questions.

    I'm a lvl 46 Jedi Sage and am currently using the hybrid specc ( http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#600Zfs0MdZcrcRsMkM.1 ) which I am loving!! Just switched from full Telekinetics build.

    I currently have 25.44% crit, a crit multiplier of 66.77%, +764 force power, +84 power and +91 surge rating.

    Could anyone advice me what's good for me to "stack" crit, surge? etc. I've read somewhere about diminishing returns and thus stacking too much in 1 stat is a bad idea. Could anyone please tell me, or point me towards a guide where I can get some more information on what's a decent amount of crit, how much surge rating I should have etc, etc.

    Your guidance is greatly appreciated.

    May the force be with us all.

    Kindest regards,

    Jedi Master Rakesh

  2. #2
    I don't think anyone really has anything set in stone, at least from everything I have read there is no set consensus, though altracity is always good from what I hear I would almost just play around with it and see what you feel makes you kill shit/heal people faster.

  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire
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    I've just gone for whatever is on the gear, all stats have synergy with the spec to some degree, without combat log support theres no mathematical certainties like in WoW.

    If you're going healing though, you'll want to combine the PvP 2 set bonus with the dungeon 2 set - the PvE 4 set is quite bad.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Verth Aeyta View Post
    I don't think anyone really has anything set in stone, at least from everything I have read there is no set consensus, though altracity is always good from what I hear I would almost just play around with it and see what you feel makes you kill shit/heal people faster.
    I'm not a big fan of alacrity. The only spell it affects is your TT. Everything else is instant cast.
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  5. #5
    Epic! Duncanîdaho's Avatar
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    Surge rating is kind of weird, because it is directly tied into your crit stat. If you have tons of surge, with no crit, it's useless. Saying that, you seem to have enough crit(I'm assuming that's unbuffed) to make stacking surge a good idea. Power is also a very good stat as its just a flat base increase on everything you do.

    As too how much crit you should go for, I'm looking around for stat cap info like you, but have been unsuccessful for sage.

    I know on my guardian I read my shield/absorb chance caps out at 50%, which you can actually get pretty close to with full end game gear and trinkets up. Defense chance caps out at 30%. Shield and absorb work together like crit and surge do. So maybe also around 50%? Total guess though, your just going to have to play around with it yourself.

    Like said above, Alacrity rating is useless unless your using a bunch of channeled/casted abilities over 1.5 seconds.
    Last edited by Duncanîdaho; 2012-02-02 at 11:30 PM.
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  6. #6
    Dreadlord Tehfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncanîdaho View Post
    Surge rating is kind of weird, because it is directly tied into your crit stat. If you have tons of surge, with no crit, it's useless. Saying that, you seem to have enough crit(I'm assuming that's unbuffed) to make stacking surge a good idea. Power is also a very good stat.
    Personally I think Surge rating was BW's method of keeping crit numbers under control. Splitting it into two values on gear itemization means that you have to go for both, and that prevents it from scaling out of control on top of other stats.
    http://fredplz.wordpress.com/ - Thoughts of an obsessive Resto Shaman

  7. #7
    As there currently is no way to gauge performance in SW:ToR, it's meaningless to speculate on the "best" stats to gear for. Toss on some gear, and if it gets whatever job you're undertaking done, it's fine.

    I'm not a big fan of alacrity. The only spell it affects is your TT. Everything else is instant cast.
    Mind Crush? Disturbance? Telekinetic wave? Turbulence?
    Last edited by Nitiga; 2012-02-02 at 11:39 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitiga View Post
    Mind Crush? Disturbance? Telekinetic wave? Turbulence?
    I guess you missed the part where the OP stated he is hybrid spec (linked it as well). As such you wouldn't use Disturbance or Turbulence and generally all casts of Mind Crush and TK wave are instant thanks to PoM procs.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Habbage View Post
    I guess you missed the part where the OP stated he is hybrid spec (linked it as well). As such you wouldn't use Disturbance or Turbulence and generally all casts of Mind Crush and TK wave are instant thanks to PoM procs.
    You got it!

    Testing atm with some new mods/armorings/etc which provide both +crit and +surge. Seemed the best of both worlds to me...

  10. #10
    I would personally go for more power at the point you are on.
    Alacrity is kinda bad for us as everything apart from TT is instant cast.
    You have enough Crit/Surge I think, though with the Hybrid spec I'd increase it to around 30% eventually.
    For now I think your best bet is to just straight up buff your damage with Power.


    ^Everything above is educated theory. There are no logs to truly test.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Habbage View Post
    I guess you missed the part where the OP stated he is hybrid spec (linked it as well). As such you wouldn't use Disturbance or Turbulence and generally all casts of Mind Crush and TK wave are instant thanks to PoM procs.
    I did not miss that, but your wording gave the impression that you were talking about alacrity in general.

    That said: At the risk of venturing into dark grounds due to the previously noted lack of performance gauge, Hard-cast Mind Crush has one of the highest DPET in the Sage arsenal and should be cast on cooldown regardless of PoM proc. I play deep balance and it happens quite frequently that MC coming off cooldown and PoM-procs does not align. At least heuritically speaking alacrity has some value beyond TK.

  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral spaace's Avatar
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    What I'm sitting on works real nice...

    Sitting hard on willpower
    450 crit
    400 surge

    rest in power


    with modable gear, you can control a good 95% of your stats.... also look @ melee dps gear (stalker implants) often have crit/surge
    Last edited by spaace; 2012-02-03 at 01:08 AM.

  13. #13
    I'll tell you this: itemization is shit. You have no real options when it comes to choosing stats. The people saying that modable items offer itemization options are just deluding themselves. Once you get into lvl 56 and 58 epics (from either pve, or pvp) you have no choice on stats. You just buy the piece of gear you can get with your tokens, and for your spec (dps/tank/heal) and that's it.

    Case in point: when i dinged battlemaster, i was lucky to get plenty of tokens from the bags. The gear i am offered only has crit+alacrity on it as secondary stats, which is, in fact, SHIT for a balance sage and for any sage with mostly instant casts (as alacrity doesnt affect dots, or the gcd). There are just 3 pieces with crit+surge (implants+focus) and none with power. So i actually had to stick with some of my champion gear, that has either crit+surge, or alacrity+power (which is still better than crit+alacrity) because i had no options. To clarify, alacrity+crit is a shit combo because crit needs to go with surge (if you're stacking) and alacrity is just simply insanely useless (maybe SLIGHTLY more useful for healer, but doubt it, crit+surge is still better, and pure power is the best sec stat).

    Now, ofcourse people could argue that you can change the mods and enhancements on your battlemaster/champion/rakata/columni gear. You can, however you will never find equivalent mods. No one sells lvl 56 or 58 mods on the AH, and if they do, they cost half a mil creds each. Besides, the stats are mostly random on those, and you still won't be able to find what you're looking for.

    So to conclude, don't worry about stats, just take the gear for your spec, and use the stats you get on it as best you can. Try to tweak it as much as possible to get secondary stats in this order: POWER > CRIT+SURGE >>>>>>>>>>>>>> alacrity, but dont expect to have much success; sometimes you just can't do anything but wear the piece with the most primary stats (willpower/endurance) with whatever secondary stats it has. A little bit of accuracy is also good for pvp to dimish resists of certain tank classes.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by delnadris View Post
    I'll tell you this: itemization is shit. You have no real options when it comes to choosing stats. The people saying that modable items offer itemization options are just deluding themselves. Once you get into lvl 56 and 58 epics (from either pve, or pvp) you have no choice on stats. You just buy the piece of gear you can get with your tokens, and for your spec (dps/tank/heal) and that's it.

    Case in point: when i dinged battlemaster, i was lucky to get plenty of tokens from the bags. The gear i am offered only has crit+alacrity on it as secondary stats, which is, in fact, SHIT for a balance sage and for any sage with mostly instant casts (as alacrity doesnt affect dots, or the gcd). There are just 3 pieces with crit+surge (implants+focus) and none with power. So i actually had to stick with some of my champion gear, that has either crit+surge, or alacrity+power (which is still better than crit+alacrity) because i had no options. To clarify, alacrity+crit is a shit combo because crit needs to go with surge (if you're stacking) and alacrity is just simply insanely useless (maybe SLIGHTLY more useful for healer, but doubt it, crit+surge is still better, and pure power is the best sec stat).

    Now, ofcourse people could argue that you can change the mods and enhancements on your battlemaster/champion/rakata/columni gear. You can, however you will never find equivalent mods. No one sells lvl 56 or 58 mods on the AH, and if they do, they cost half a mil creds each. Besides, the stats are mostly random on those, and you still won't be able to find what you're looking for.

    So to conclude, don't worry about stats, just take the gear for your spec, and use the stats you get on it as best you can. Try to tweak it as much as possible to get secondary stats in this order: POWER > CRIT+SURGE >>>>>>>>>>>>>> alacrity, but dont expect to have much success; sometimes you just can't do anything but wear the piece with the most primary stats (willpower/endurance) with whatever secondary stats it has. A little bit of accuracy is also good for pvp to dimish resists of certain tank classes.
    actually if you dont like the enhancement in the piece for your dps spec you can always buy 2nd piece for healers and strip it from it's enhancement.
    i have lvl 56 mods/enhancements in every piece i have, including my custom weapon (no luck with epic wep so far). so yes, it's doable, you don't need to spend gazylion cr for epic mods on ah.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by yalin View Post
    actually if you dont like the enhancement in the piece for your dps spec you can always buy 2nd piece for healers and strip it from it's enhancement.
    i have lvl 56 mods/enhancements in every piece i have, including my custom weapon (no luck with epic wep so far). so yes, it's doable, you don't need to spend gazylion cr for epic mods on ah.
    The healer item enhancement (and mod) has the exact same stats, just different quantities of them.

    I will admit however that the lvl 56 mods and enhancements are the best: the crit+surge ones from the gloves OR head. But to be able to get those mods in all your gear you'd need 5 pairs of head or gloves, or a combination. Also, what's the point of the battlemaster gear then? Only the armoring? That adds up to just a very very slight, almost insignificant upgrade. To clarify, the mods and enhancements on BM gear are shit. Rakata ones are better, but then you have to raid nightmare mode. It's an option, but not one you should have to make really. Itemization should be as much of a decision as picking talents is.
    Last edited by delnadris; 2012-02-03 at 09:04 AM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by delnadris View Post
    The healer item enhancement (and mod) has the exact same stats, just different quantities of them.

    I will admit however that the lvl 56 mods and enhancements are the best: the crit+surge ones from the gloves OR head. But to be able to get those mods in all your gear you'd need 5 pairs of head or gloves, or a combination. Also, what's the point of the battlemaster gear then? Only the armoring? That adds up to just a very very slight, almost insignificant upgrade. To clarify, the mods and enhancements on BM gear are shit. Rakata ones are better, but then you have to raid nightmare mode. It's an option, but not one you should have to make really. Itemization should be as much of a decision as picking talents is.
    you are right about the same stats on the same tier pieces. they sometimes differ on amount of endurance (thats why i swapped those mods/enh, sadly i couldnt do the same about armoring). rakata set pieces drop from hardmode as well, you dont need to do nightmare to obtain them.

  17. #17
    Stood in the Fire
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    As far as I'm aware Alacrity does affect the gcd (thereby making it one of the more valuable stats), its just it isn't possible to stack enough Alacrity to make it feel entirely obvious. I've noticed a difference however between no Alacrity on gear vs some alacrity. Could just be in the mind however I suppose.

    Regardless of this, using the 0/13/28 hybrid spec which is estimated to do the highest DPS currently you'll be casting a lot of Telekinetic Throw; in fact in between refreshing weaken mind/FiB and using PoM procs it is all you cast, and given that is a 3 second channel alacrity is clearly extremely valuable here. Even if you have to hard cast a mind crush this is also a 2 second cast and also therefore benefits significantly from alacrity.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Zotan View Post
    As far as I'm aware Alacrity does affect the gcd (thereby making it one of the more valuable stats), its just it isn't possible to stack enough Alacrity to make it feel entirely obvious. I've noticed a difference however between no Alacrity on gear vs some alacrity. Could just be in the mind however I suppose.

    Regardless of this, using the 0/13/28 hybrid spec which is estimated to do the highest DPS currently you'll be casting a lot of Telekinetic Throw; in fact in between refreshing weaken mind/FiB and using PoM procs it is all you cast, and given that is a 3 second channel alacrity is clearly extremely valuable here. Even if you have to hard cast a mind crush this is also a 2 second cast and also therefore benefits significantly from alacrity.
    I mostly agree with what you said, but having both alacrity AND crit on an item is simply idiotic. Alacrity with crit does not work. You either get alacrity+power, or crit+surge. There is no way you can make alacrity+crit work. Ofc, only pvp items have this prolem, rakata gear at least has alacrity+power, which is decent, however, both pvp and pve sets should have the option of choosing different stats.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by delnadris View Post
    I mostly agree with what you said, but having both alacrity AND crit on an item is simply idiotic. Alacrity with crit does not work. You either get alacrity+power, or crit+surge. There is no way you can make alacrity+crit work. Ofc, only pvp items have this prolem, rakata gear at least has alacrity+power, which is decent, however, both pvp and pve sets should have the option of choosing different stats.
    You figure this out how?

    Faster casts that crit more often works out as a DPS gain, no?

    Also you can choose your stats via remodding.

  20. #20
    Dreadlord Tehfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zotan View Post
    You figure this out how?

    Faster casts that crit more often works out as a DPS gain, no?

    Also you can choose your stats via remodding.
    Crit is only an extra 50% damage baseline (without Surge). You need Surge to make Crit mathematical superior to faster, consistently higher numbers through alacrity + power.
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