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  1. #21
    The basic idea for gearing up any dps is to:

    1) Naturally stack your main stat, does this ever even need to be said?
    2) Next you want some accuracy. 100%, misses suck. Anything over and it lowers their chance to dodge/parry, but that is *mostly* for melee.
    3) Crit, then surge. Hit them harder and harder.
    4) Alacrity as filler. This is mainly meant to be a healer stat, not so much dps, but it is semi-useful for cast spells.

    If you absolutly need combat logs to have any indication of how you are doing, than you must not be a very good player. You can easily see your spells hitting, look at listed values, calculate on cast times etc... Numbers appear on your screen for a reason.

  2. #22
    Alacrity is one of the worst stats in the game since it does not decrease GCDs or increase resource regeneration. It's okay for Sages/Sorcs since they have a big pool to work with but it's not as good as crit/surge.

    I think I read somewhere that for healers alacrity actually increases the effective cost of abilities.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerion View Post
    I think I read somewhere that for healers alacrity actually increases the effective cost of abilities.
    I could understand this. I don't have time to do a thorough dissection of it, because I have to leave in like five minutes. However, it makes at least some sense as a sorc/sage because:

    1) Our burst and efficiency are tied to the cooldown on Resurgence.
    2) Innervate needs to crit most (if not all) casts in order to last for long periods of time.

    That's just off the top of my head. If anyone wants to elaborate, go for it.

    PS: Sorry to sages, but I just don't have time right now to find the names for your counterparts to those spells.
    http://fredplz.wordpress.com/ - Thoughts of an obsessive Resto Shaman

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Koalachan View Post
    2) Next you want some accuracy. 100%, misses suck. Anything over and it lowers their chance to dodge/parry, but that is *mostly* for melee.
    In case of the Sage, stacking hit beyond the cap, reduces the enemies's resistance to force-based attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koalachan View Post
    If you absolutly need combat logs to have any indication of how you are doing, than you must not be a very good player. You can easily see your spells hitting, look at listed values, calculate on cast times etc... Numbers appear on your screen for a reason.
    Such crap can only be uttered by someone who has never been doing serious analysis of the inner workings of an MMO nor really cared about the finer details of his own performance. Sure you can get an indication of how you are performing by looking at your screen, in the same manner as you can get an indication on which direction the wind is blowing by moisting your finger and holding it in the air. But such methods are suggestive at best (and completly misleading at worst, for reasons of what the human brain tends to remember). We are now on page two of this discussion and still not any closer to the facts about alacrity's/crit's/surge's value for a DPS sage.
    Last edited by Nitiga; 2012-02-06 at 04:51 PM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitiga View Post
    In case of the Sage, stacking hit beyond the cap, reduces the enemies's resistance to force-based attacks.
    No, it does not. Accuracy is a worthless stat for Sages/Sorcs because Force attacks never miss.

    Here's a quote from Sithwarrior: "Force Attacks have an intrinsic 100% base accuracy, and no targets (PvE or PvP) possess force resist, so this stat is useless for Sorcerers/Sages."

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitiga View Post
    We are now on page two of this discussion and still not any closer to the facts about alacrity's/crit's/surge's value for a DPS sage.
    For balance sages, which is also the most common pvp spec around, you really REALLY, dont need a combat log to figure out the fact that alacrity is the worst secondary stat.

    ---------- Post added 2012-02-06 at 08:34 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerion View Post
    No, it does not. Accuracy is a worthless stat for Sages/Sorcs because Force attacks never miss.

    Here's a quote from Sithwarrior: "Force Attacks have an intrinsic 100% base accuracy, and no targets (PvE or PvP) possess force resist, so this stat is useless for Sorcerers/Sages."
    Accuracy beyound the cap reduces the target's resistance. It even says so in the tips on loading screens. You managed to read what a random site said, but not what the actual game says?
    Last edited by delnadris; 2012-02-06 at 06:37 PM.

  7. #27
    Please ignore what the above post says regarding Accuracy. There is a reason why it isn't itemized at all on sage/sorc gear and that is as Sithwarrior.com (the leading theorycrafting website may I add) says, force attacks have a 100% baseline accuracy. Its a melee stat hence the stalker gear being loaded with the stuff. As a sage/sorc you want to avoid it like the plague.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by delnadris View Post
    For balance sages, which is also the most common pvp spec around, you really REALLY, dont need a combat log to figure out the fact that alacrity is the worst secondary stat.

    ---------- Post added 2012-02-06 at 08:34 PM ----------



    Accuracy beyound the cap reduces the target's resistance. It even says so in the tips on loading screens. You managed to read what a random site said, but not what the actual game says?
    Have you actually looked at the tooltips? Defense chance only affects Melee/Ranged attacks. All tech and force attacks will never miss. Have you ever noticed let's say a grav round or a demolition round miss? Ever? How about a Project or Telekinetic Throw? Even at 90% accuracy, leveling from 1-50 with both a Trooper and Consular I have never had tech or force attacks miss. Please stop throwing terrible misinformation around.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerion View Post
    Please stop throwing terrible misinformation around.
    He isn't spreading misinformation. All he - and me, for that matter - is saying that accuracy beyond the 100% cap reduce enemy resistance to force attacks. that's all. The game tooltip on hit says so and even your renowend sithwarrior.com have figured that out. that fact is really not up for debate.

    The open question is whether force resistance reduction aka spell-penetration is needed against NPC mobs in the game (I'm almost willing to bet it will be needed for pvp at some point). Neither delnadris or me have made any claims in that regard nor have we ever recommended stacking accuracy.
    Last edited by Nitiga; 2012-02-06 at 09:19 PM.

  10. #30
    Can't say about sages/sorcs but my experience says that if your dps depends on dots, prefer power and if you have big hitters and in general crit bonuses for those hitters, stack crit and surge. For example as jugg pve I use this http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101cMZIGMR0uddGZG.1 and I stack power. As far as I know, crit doesn't apply to dots! Impale, Shatter, Force Scream all have big dots and that's why I prefer power.

    On the other hand, when I want to pvp, I choose this http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101ZI0rZGrRbzrMbGR.1 and I stack crit and surge. This built is based on heavy hits and has already a lot of crit and force powers buffs. This way your Smash hits for 7k+
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by kalamitis View Post
    As far as I know, crit doesn't apply to dots!
    One of the Sage's talents begins with, "Your weaken mind critical hits..." so I assume it does.
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by delnadris View Post
    Accuracy beyound the cap reduces the target's resistance. It even says so in the tips on loading screens. You managed to read what a random site said, but not what the actual game says?
    There is NO RESISTANCE to force attacks from NPCs. It ALWAYS hits. So why on earth would you waste stat points trying to add accuracy to get through the resistance when they have none? This is a generic tooltip and does not apply to this class. Accuracy does not penetrate armor, only affects defense, which, as mentioned above, force attacks always have 100% chance to hit. So unless you want to run around auto attacking everyone. Accuracy is pretty much useless for a sorcerer/sage.

    Now to the OP, you basically want a nice balance of surge and crit. You need a lot of it to worry about hitting diminishing returns, so I wouldn't worry about that right now. These two stats work best together and not when you stack just one. Power is strong and is not affected by diminishing returns, so after you get your crit/surge up, get power on everything else.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Starry101 View Post
    So why on earth would you waste stat points trying to add accuracy to get through the resistance when they have none?
    Why on earth are you so keen on trying to imply that people has said something they hasn't? Would you be so kind as to produce a quote from this thread where it is explicitly recommended to stack accuracy.

    All comments in regards to accuracy has been on what it does! for a sorc/sage. However, at no point has it been said that accuracy-spell-pen is - currently - needed or even useful.


    Addendum: While we are on the matter of anecdotal evidence, I was just battling some mobs on Hoth. As I used Force Quake on a pack of three, I twice noticed a little word in yellow letters floating up from the mobs amidst the damage numbers. It spelled out "Resist". Thus the statement

    There is NO RESISTANCE to force attacks from NPCs. It ALWAYS hits.
    is clearly false. Also had it happen with Force Project. In both cases, mobs were +2 levels.
    Last edited by Nitiga; 2012-02-07 at 02:37 PM.

  14. #34
    so I just got a sent to 50 and my sorc is lvl 18 valor at lvl 19 so I'll just say this about the build.


    If you are doing a hybrid go up one more tier in the Tele tree for kenetic collapse. It's a free blind every time your bubble breaks. Unbelieveably amazing against melee. Also you want Alacrity as the main stat. Up until the first break point that I don't know off the top of my head so check out something like darth hater. Alacrity speeds up your channeled effects so for instance. Force Lightning is channeled so by speeding it up you finish the cast(damage on target) quicker. Basically no reason to not go for the alacrity cap of like 1000(it's an exact number so do look it up. )

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitiga View Post
    Why on earth are you so keen on trying to imply that people has said something they hasn't? Would you be so kind as to produce a quote from this thread where it is explicitly recommended to stack accuracy.

    All comments in regards to accuracy has been on what it does! for a sorc/sage. However, at no point has it been said that accuracy-spell-pen is - currently - needed or even useful.
    Please read the thread before you accuse me of not doing so. There is a lot of misinformation in this thread about what accuracy actually does and how it benefits and I'm simply trying to explain it so people understand it. Examples if you really need them:

    Quote Originally Posted by Koalachan View Post
    The basic idea for gearing up any dps is to:

    1) Naturally stack your main stat, does this ever even need to be said?
    2) Next you want some accuracy. 100%, misses suck. Anything over and it lowers their chance to dodge/parry, but that is *mostly* for melee.
    3) Crit, then surge. Hit them harder and harder.
    4) Alacrity as filler. This is mainly meant to be a healer stat, not so much dps, but it is semi-useful for cast spells.
    The problem with this is not all DPS are the same, and should not be treated as so and accuracy is not mostly for melee. Its extremely important for some ranged classes as well. When someone is asking for specific information, its better to give it to them, than a generalization which is not accurate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitiga View Post
    In case of the Sage, stacking hit beyond the cap, reduces the enemies's resistance to force-based attacks.
    I just noticed this is from you as well. So let me explain it for you again. Accuracy is NOT "spell pen". Accuracy improves chance to hit, beyond that it only deals with mitigating the enemies chance to dodge/parry an attack. Since force attacks cannot be dodged etc, stacking more of it will do nothing. The only thing that lowers force damage would be armor, which accuracy has nothing to do with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitiga View Post

    Addendum: While we are on the matter of anecdotal evidence, I was just battling some mobs on Hoth. As I used Force Quake on a pack of three, I twice noticed a little word in yellow letters floating up from the mobs amidst the damage numbers. It spelled out "Resist". Thus the statement is clearly false. Also had it happen with Force Project. In both cases, mobs were +2 levels.
    Do I really need to tell you that when you are fighting mobs that are higher level than you, you no longer have 100% accuracy? This thread is about gearing for end game, and currently all operation bosses are level 50, so its pointless to worry about hitting levels higher than you. This isn't WoW where raid bosses are 3 levels higher.
    Last edited by Starry101; 2012-02-07 at 05:23 PM.

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