Arena balance might be just a couple of nerfs away...

[Johnmatrix]

I wish Blizzard realized this too...

If sub rogue, frost mage, affliction lock (not a bursty class but fits with the others too well) and feral druid were not so out of control, other specs would have a chance at high rated arena too. These 4 specs combined together in several different comps like RMP, FMP, RLS, MLS, (almost counting junglecleave here too but it only has feral out of these 4) etc tear the brackets apart. All these comps have huge bursts combined with awesome cc. You just can't match their level of burst and utility with several other comps.

I don't mind them having the utility they have, nerfing that would have negative impact on this game. Why can't blizzard just realize that they have way too much damage atm? You should not have both amazing cc and ridiculous burst. RMP for example either kills or forces major cooldowns during 10 first seconds of the match (IF you don't have blanket cc classes in your team). What's the freaking point? Most of the teams i mentioned are able to from cc chains of several seconds all the time, so why the heck can they also kill in 5-10 seconds?

If Blizzard would dramatically nerf sub rogues, frost mages, feral druids burst damage, we might see a handful of other specs step up in the ladder. Just by nerfing these 3, huge amounts of specs would become a lot more viable in high rated arena. If they are better than others in so many ways, they should not be ahead in damage.

[Deleted]

It probably won't happen till MoP sadly or 5.0

And although mages are having fingers of frost removed from pvp in MoP, they're also getting shatter/deep baseline. I'm interested to see how it works with an arcane mage 4-stacking you in a deep.

Feral survivability (which is the real problem with them atm) is seeing a nerf, with the splitting off of the guardian spec.

Rogues are losing ShStep or Prep, tho overall are looking pretty strong.

Locks look like they're getting buffed :P

[Xuvial]

Difficult to say anything about MoP because a recent blue post mentioned that the talent trees that you're currently seeing are WAY outdated. Shatter and Deep may not do the same thing they do now, there are so many variables for adjustment (e.g. shatter multiplier, % chance, Deep duration, effect, etc) that you can only vaguely speculate on how effective they'll be in practical PvP.

Back on topic, I would agree that Rogue + Mage burst can be incredible. Things get plain stupid if you have Legendaries involved, something both Rogues and Mages have access to at the moment....but still fairly rare (so far anyway).

With the exception of Rogues + Vial, I think balance is in a pretty good place. Actually no it's still a clusterfuck, but for THIS GAME its in a pretty good place. The majority of classes/specs have a good shot at high ratings. Off the top of my head, only Warriors are really suffering at the moment. Hunters can fair well if played expertly (skill req is way too high compared to other classes/specs).

[DPA]

Vial for rogues isn't good anymore. Also, there was better trinkets in arenas once it was called "op"

[rzy]

On that list only one thing is op...and that is Ferals!! Mages are not op in 3v3 atall.

Feral's at the moment are so op its unreal.
Rogues are strong not op its the nerd gear pre-nerf that mage them op!

[Cairhiin]

Yeah just a few nerfs away, and then those classes end up useless in PvE. It's not that simple sadly.

[Woebegone]

Arena balance has felt like it's one or two nerfs and buffs away ever since arenas were introduced.

[rzy]

Yeah just a few nerfs away, and then those classes end up useless in PvE. It's not that simple sadly.

People play sub and frost in pve?

As according to OP those are really op...

[Cairhiin]

Dunno, but people do play Affliction in PvE, and Feral. As I said it's not that easy, and probably requires an expansion to balance those nerfs out in PvE.

[pzijderv]

People play sub and frost in pve?

As according to OP those are really op...

people sure as hell play sub in pve

[Deleted]

On that list only one thing is op...and that is Ferals!! Mages are not op in 3v3 atall.

Feral's at the moment are so op its unreal.
Rogues are strong not op its the nerd gear pre-nerf that mage them op!

I detect massive quantities of bias in this sector.

[rzy]

I detect massive quantities of bias in this sector.

Ferals damage is disgusting, sure rogue is strong - but their damage is only stupid with old Vial! - Ferals are outrageous without PvE gear!

[Dazzy]

heh, I was just wondering the other day which class/spec all that hate would flow onto next once vial was nerfed, guess feral is the answer.

Every bad player has to whine about something I suppose.

At least it took a couple days.

[Johnmatrix]

On that list only one thing is op...and that is Ferals!! Mages are not op in 3v3 atall.

Feral's at the moment are so op its unreal.
Rogues are strong not op its the nerd gear pre-nerf that mage them op!

I think we both know that mages are OP, even in 3v3 And rogues were strong before 25% MS and new gear scaling. Now they went over.

Ferals are actually the least OP in 3s out of these 4. 2s is a whole different story :P

[Deleted]

Ferals damage is disgusting, sure rogue is strong - but their damage is only stupid with old Vial! - Ferals are outrageous without PvE gear!

Rogues will still have stupid damage with the 'nerfed' vial. Ferals are indeed absurd. I just dont agree that Mages and Rogues arent : p

---------- Post added 2012-02-03 at 12:44 PM ----------

heh, I was just wondering the other day which class/spec all that hate would flow onto next once vial was nerfed, guess feral is the answer.

Every bad player has to whine about something I suppose.

At least it took a couple days.

Oh yes, because people never whined over Ferals before

[reckoner04]

Arena balance has felt like it's one or two nerfs and buffs away ever since arenas were introduced.

Indeed. You have to remember that if you buff or nerf a spec in PvP, the result won't just be that this spec will be weaker. The balance is much more delicate than you might think and an entirely different spec (or rather comp) might come out op/up after the original buff/nerf.
You also have to take into account that even if you don't change anything at all, the comps and strategies will change (see Starcraft), the system is NOT static.
Also, players might overreact when they see some nerfs/buffs and cause the ladder to change more than the nerfs/buffs would imply. This in turn will cause other balance issues and so on.

So no, it's not as simple as "just nerf the dmg on this ability a bit and I'm absolutely sure everything will turn out fine". It's very narrow-minded to think that everything would stay the same except that in all future matches, the damage output by that ability would turn out slightly lower. That's not how it is at all. People will abandon comps, new strategies emerge, other comps rise that got countered by the nerfed comp, which in turn... etc. etc.

[rzy]

people sure as hell play sub in pve

The minority. Balancing around the minority makes sense?

---------- Post added 2012-02-03 at 12:09 PM ----------

I think we both know that mages are OP, even in 3v3 And rogues were strong before 25% MS and new gear scaling. Now they went over.

Ferals are actually the least OP in 3s out of these 4. 2s is a whole different story :P

If you think mage is OP in 3s you're clearly a low rated idiot, melee can sit mages all day in 3s and lock the mage out.

[Deleted]

If you think mage is OP in 3s you're clearly a low rated idiot, melee can sit mages all day in 3s and lock the mage out.

People can sit on a Feral and lock him out. His damage will drop significantly when he drops to bear because his mastery changes, and once his Frenzied Regen is gone he's toast far quicker than a Mage.

It's not a very good argument anyway, as you should be running around with a Rogue that knows how to peel. Your problem is that Rogues are even harder to kill, and Mage damage is ridiculous when they get to freecast, so is their CC btw.

[redderz1]

If Blizzard would dramatically nerf sub rogues, frost mages, feral druids burst damage, we might see a handful of other specs step up in the ladder. Just by nerfing these 3, huge amounts of specs would become a lot more viable in high rated arena. If they are better than others in so many ways, they should not be ahead in damage.

You are aware that a cata geared rogue with cata daggers backstab CRITS a geared Holy Paladin for a whopping 16-17k arent you? To take damage away from rogues would render them useless.

[Deleted]

You are aware that a cata geared rogue with cata daggers backstab CRITS a geared Holy Paladin for a whopping 16-17k arent you? To take damage away from rogues would render them useless.

Rogues aren't about burst and I don't think they will open with ambush on a healer tbh.