"Fat Tax", Are You For or Against?

[Fuger]

its a slippery slope argument for Americans. I would rather them just legalize marijuana and rape face on the tax off of that. I mean shit butter is used in restaurants in a lot food, French cooking would be soooooo insanely expensive. All it does is put financial pressure on people who already have a hard time paying for food. It is expensive to eat well in most places and much cheaper to eat badly. This will just hurt the poor class because the upper class can afford the lifestyle. I don't see it solving anything and the Tax dollar from it would just go to some senator or representatives jet fuel.

I would rather the government cuts spending before it tried to bring in more money. Seriously, the US government makes more money each year than most companies.

[peachtree]

Although it is very discriminatory, obesity causes too many health problems and they should try to force people to stay healthy so im for it, but im against imposing it on people who are overweight as a result of a medical condition and women and women after giving birth(temporarily)

causes?
can you explain why people who are in normal weight range or underweight can develop heart disease?

[Fresh]

You do realize that if everyone had a million dollars that a million dollars would be worth closer to 10 dollars today. Taxing people because they have a higher BMI means nothing. According to the BMI I should have a hard time finding pants my size but I wear a 38. The only way to tax for fat is to have the person go through a density check to see how much of their weight is less dense than water. Ok?

Clearly the million dollars was lost on you. It had nothing to do with BMI, incase you have not noticed it takes several million dollars to run for president, and the president can help pass a bill through Congress to get the Fat Tax passed. I agree with you that the density check would be better suited for this situation.

[evoco]

I am all for people having their opinions, but....some of you are just down right rude and have ugly attitudes. You can state an opinion without being hostile and derogatory.

Anyway, now that that's out of the way. I do not support this at all. It would be more worthwhile to find a way to cut the cost of the healthier food. Please don't give me the whole "healthy food is cheaper you're doing it wrong!!!" stuff, a good portion of it is more expensive - compare prepared foods to prepared foods. Can you cook healthier for cheaper than buying fast food - yes. Can you buy prepared healthier food for cheaper than prepared unhealthy food - no. The best example I can think of which is a bad example is frozen pizza. Compare the prices of the junky no nutritional benefit at all ones to the ones that at least use real meat. Some people truly do not have the time to cook and honestly, if you can't understand that consider yourself fortunate (given, anyone can find 10 minutes to prep/cook a meal, but at the same time personally I have found very few healthy meals that you can fully prep and cook from scratch within 10-15 minutes that don't get boring as hell after 2 weeks).

Make prepared healthy food less expensive, give people tax breaks/discounts/whatever for gym memberships. When you give people a chance to save money they will take advantage. When you make something more expensive, people will grumble and moan and pay for it anyway. It is not an absolute and not everyone will buy the cheaper/pay the more expensive. In general when you give people the opportunity to save money they are more likely to do so than to stop buying something convenient because they raised the price by $0.40.

Personally I think the governments involvement ends at information on this topic. Make the info available and easily accessible, but it is not the governments responsibility to babysit adults (adults affecting children is a completely different story - I do not argue charging parents with neglect for severely obese children). If they want to give out discounts and rewards, sure why not - free stuff is fun. But as soon as they start doling out punishments for legal things, no, just no.

And one last thing. A lot of people are arguing the tax costs dumped on other citizens because of medical issues. Where the hell do you people live? I am, admittedly, currently not at an ideal weight, but I AM part of that small percentage due to medical reasons. If I had the ability to get the medications and regular good medical care (most clinics are not qualified to do more than give you penicillin and tell you to leave) I need I would be fine, but I don't have the money to pay for them and as of yet, have had absolutely no luck in finding help to pay - and yes I've gone to the manufacturers (I'm not talking about a $15.00 a month thing, this is more of a $1500-$2000 a month without insurance). So all in all where is the magic medical care for overweight people that everyone keeps yelling about? Is it a club, is there a secret handshake I don't know?

*edit: also a little surprised that food and lazy has been the only two things pointed at. Where is the new additional tax on alcohol/beer?

[Zoldor]

I say we tax people more who have a higher BMI. That will encourage people to eat healthier and exercise which would benefit the entire country. ohh the things I would do if I had a spare million dollars sitting around to run for president.

First: its Billions to run for president now and a lot of outside support.
Second: Who is going to pay for all those doctor visits to get that BMI measurement in a country of 300 million people? Again this is an issue when implimenting the systems the Europeans have in the US. It would have to be a state by state program.

[DrakeWurrum]

I'm against any tax. But shitty food is way cheaper than good, healthy food and that's why people are getting fat.

So if it helps make real food cheaper than the crap, I'm absolutely for it.

It's not even that shitty food is cheaper to get.

You can eat shitty food and not get fat. What matters is whether or not you actually USE the energy you are consuming. If you sit in front of a computer all day, you don't need to eat HALF as much food as a marathon runner does. Yet people do it anyways, and then never even go for a walk around the block (which, btw, doesn't burn off nearly as many calories as you might think).

The problem is not easy-access food, it is a lack of impulse control. On top of that, when I look in my own fridge or pantry for something to eat, often my choice is decided by what I can prepare faster, because that takes less effort. Healthier food usually requires longer preparation time (with the exception of apples, oranges, bananas, etc).
Fat people is not something the government can solve through taxes. Adding taxes to "unhealthy food" will just cause all these fat people to become fat AND poor.

Moderation is the key. It's perfectly fine to eat cheeseburgers from McDonald's every day of your life, but you need to be prepared to pay the "fat tax" that already exists: exercise.
Edit: And if they're not willing to pay in exercise, they will pay in obesity. That's their choice, and the government should not try to control that choice.

[Fuger]

Clearly the million dollars was lost on you. It had nothing to do with BMI, incase you have not noticed it takes several million dollars to run for president, and the president can help pass a bill through Congress to get the Fat Tax passed. I agree with you that the density check would be better suited for this situation.

I was not implicating BMI with the money variable. Also, running for president has nothing to do with money.

[Ballador]

Again any argument about healthy food being too expensive or doesn't taste good is pathetic and stupid, You know that food your trying to protect saying you can eat what you want, then learn how to make it yourself and stop being a lazy fatass, go online and you can find a recipe for healthy donuts you pig. hell i could make some fucking orange chicken that would be the best thing you tasted in your life and it would be healthy because i got off my ass and actually found the right ingredients.

I'm sorry but every single argument that has been on here is flawed and easily disproven, you fat people are just too lazy to work to make good food, you have to eat tv dinners and fast food fucking pigs.

Look i found a picture of you.
(image cut)

Wow ... someone has just a little bit of hostility, don't we?

Once again, some people don't have as many options as you do. Some people only have 30 minutes for their lunch break. Some people don't have access to a fridge or a microwave at their office. Some people don't have access to healthy restaurants that take less than 30 minutes to drive to, order, pickup, consume, and drive back to work. While what you do works for you, that does not mean that it will work for every person. And frankly, calling other people lazy pigs just shows how blatantly immature and how flawed and biased your thought processes are. Your personal opinion may be that every argument within this discussion is "flawed and easily disproven" (which by the way isn't even a freaking word, HAHA http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/disproven), but where exactly are all these facts that debunk all the arguments that have been given by others? I'll wait while you spend the next few hours locating all the "facts" and "research" that support your opinion, and then I will simple state that every one of them has a counter-argument and more research that proves them inconclusive. :-) In the mean time, let's tone down the aggressiveness, shall we?

[Zoldor]

I would rather the government cuts spending before it tried to bring in more money. Seriously, the US government makes more money each year than most companies.

Well yeah, but they never cut anything. They treaten to cut stuff, but all that ever does is elimate government jobs. Military spending is the biggest chunk atm and we know for sure we are never cutting that back. I think we should cut all Senators/Representatives/Presidents etc salaries completely. They get free cars to drive, planes to fly, office expenses paid, and more than likely a free apartment. Might keep the corrupt ones outta the game if there wasn't a pay check.

[Fuger]

Well yeah, but they never cut anything. They treaten to cut stuff, but all that ever does is elimate government jobs. Military spending is the biggest chunk atm and we know for sure we are never cutting that back. I think we should cut all Senators/Representatives/Presidents etc salaries completely. They get free cars to drive, planes to fly, office expenses paid, and more than likely a free apartment. Might keep the corrupt ones outta the game if there wasn't a pay check.

The money is already shit for them. The way they make money is from their sponsors. I would prefer we don't chase away good Presidents by making them sell their massive book collections to the library of congress. (Two points if you get the reference)

[peachtree]

Wow ... someone has just a little bit of hostility, don't we?

Once again, some people don't have as many options as you do. Some people only have 30 minutes for their lunch break. Some people don't have access to a fridge or a microwave at their office. Some people don't have access to healthy restaurants that take less than 30 minutes to drive to, order, pickup, consume, and drive back to work. While what you do works for you, that does not mean that it will work for every person. And frankly, calling other people lazy pigs just shows how blatantly immature and how flawed and biased your thought processes are. Your personal opinion may be that every argument within this discussion is "flawed and easily disproven" (which by the way isn't even a freaking word, HAHA http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/disproven), but where exactly are all these facts that debunk all the arguments that have been given by others? I'll wait while you spend the next few hours locating all the "facts" and "research" that support your opinion, and then I will simple state that every one of them has a counter-argument and more research that proves them inconclusive. :-) In the mean time, let's tone down the aggressiveness, shall we?

ii don't like these excuses

'i should really make choices in order to live better and have a healthier lifestyle, but then i'd have to make my lunch beforehand and bring it into work'

i'm not endorsing the guy's attitude or saying everyone should be fat taxed, but if people want to live healthier, personal responsibility comes in somewhere along the line. you look up restaraunts menus before going there, you look up mcdonalds and see what's best for you, all the nutritional info is out there and availabe and you need to do that little bit of effort to get it. saying you have no choice but to eat that way is just silly.

all because you don't have some vegan restaruant in the area doesn't mean you can't eat healthy at mcdonalds. see what works for you and make those choices

everybody's bodies work differently and there's no set way for everybody to lose weight
vegetarism works for some people, paleo works for other people
in my experience cutting carbs and going high fat has been extremely beneficial to me(and many other people)

[belfpala]

go figure that the amount of fat people and the killer of heart disease rises in the same half centuary that carbs were placed as the biggest thing you should have in your diet everyday and with the rise of things like vegetable oil, all government reccomended

if you grew up your entire life being told that you should have a ton of white bread and pasta in almost every meal you have(the very foundation of your food pyramid) and you followed that while keeping fats low and you were still overweight, is it because you didn't want healthiness enough? that you were lazy?

You don't think it might have more to do with coming out of hard times... the depression in the 1930s, rationing during WWII... and entering into a time of abundance?

It's actually an interesting topic for anyone interested. Rationing during WWII has permanently changed our eating habits (at least in the US). Certain processed foods, like Kraft mac & cheese, were previously unknown but were cheap on rations and stayed popular ever since.

[Zoldor]

I love when rich people without a 40 hour a week job bitch about people who don't have enough money and time to do the things they get to do. Its always amazing. To cook for one person with good ingredients is way way more expensive than it is to purchase a meal somewhere especially fast food of any kind. When you live on a 220 dollar week paycheck and work 40 hours and rent alone is near the 500 dollar range you don't have that extra money to spend on everything.

[Sparkalark]

The flaw is that people have a perception that the tax would have any impact at all on the decisions people make to eat. If you could legitimately tax fatty foods (how would you define this in the first place) and cause everyone in the country to magically become thin and healthy, you would truly be the second coming of Jesus.

Reality is, people who would fall into this tax bracket would do absolutely nothing to change their condition. Even an extra 20% on just garbage food would likely amount to what, 50$ a month ? What would that really solve? anyone with enough disposable income wouldn't bat an eyelash. Anyone who would feel an appreciable effect would end up just sacrificing from some where else, because that's the power food holds over a lot of people.

Think about the diet industry in America alone, people are willing to spend hundreds of dollars a month in some cases to maintain a *healthy* lifestyle. Gym memberships, dietary supplements, weight watchers, books, trainers, videos, workout equipment, the list goes on and on. Not to mention how genuinely unhealthy some of that stuff can really be. You're telling me an insignificant tax on food is going to magically answer this issue without any kind of education or lifestyle change behind it?

I won't argue the fact with anyone that being thin and healthy is better than fat and unhealthy. It's a losing argument. IT REALLY IS BETTER TO BE HEALTHY, go figure. But I will argue that taxation is ultimately meaningless, and will do nothing other than inconvenience most, and benefit none.

[peachtree]

You don't think it might have more to do with coming out of hard times... the depression in the 1930s, rationing during WWII... and entering into a time of abundance?

It's actually an interesting topic for anyone interested. Rationing during WWII has permanently changed our eating habits (at least in the US). Certain processed foods, like Kraft mac & cheese, were previously unknown but were cheap on rations and stayed popular ever since.

or it could have something to do with the fundamental rehaul of government recommended nutrition that happened in the past half decade and the introduction of BMI where suddenly a formidable chunk of americans were overweight when the system was inducted

nah man that can't be it

[Glimpse]

Watch the film Fat Head and you will see that it is the governments fault for pumping Americans full of starchy grains.

[Scyber]

This is silly. Food isn't bad. Eating too much of anything will be bad if a person isn't active. Why should I pay more for food when I'm perfectly healthy and bother to exercise? A person's heart won't be healthy being a normal weight and never getting out of the chair. BMI is awful. It works for most people, but anyone who has worked out for a few years and isn't tiny will show up as overweight. I'm overweight by BMI with a six pack. Do you really think I'm overweight?

[peachtree]

Watch the film Fat Head and you will see that it is the governments fault for pumping Americans full of starchy grains.

thank you
not just the movie but his blog's informative too and tends to keep up with all recent nutritional related things:
http://www.fathead-movie.com/

[charbrec]

A lot of people eat shit and get fat just because they can't afford nutritious foods. It is a hell of a lot cheaper to eat processed foods, as opposed to fresh veggies/fruits and meat. And when it comes down to how much money you can afford to spend on food to feed your family, you only have so many options. And sadly, those options are the highly processed, preservative filled foods that are terrible for your health.
But any kind of tax like this would start to dictate what people are allowed to eat, and is just a early form of government dictating our lives. That won't happen, and should never happen.

[MKing]

lol someone said cut down prices on PREPARED healthy foods, seriously.. Just go buy stuff at the store and make it for yourself, i don't care what kind of time constraints your on you either care about your health or you don't.