[PvP] Build and Counter

[Deleted]

snip

Hehe, thats ok. I think Malthurius is right about the weapon swapping in combat. I don't know where I heard or read that, but it sounds familiar..
I would also like to point out that the Guardian isn't some sort of indestructible object with endless condition remover. IMO you should just face him head on. Arenanet is pretty determined to make everything balanced. So even if you don't stand a chance, expect Arenanet to throw around some changes/buffs/nerfs. The same thing applies to the shortbow thief, don't expect to be able to endlessly kite a guardian with it neither. Not to mention having traits/utility skills for dagger/dagger and dagger/pistol, making the shortbow rather weak or broken.

[Deleted]

Firstly, both of the links you linked were to my build. :P
Secondly, countering my cripple/charge spam/knockdown build with skills made to get away from me seems extremely counter productive. My build it meant to counter THAT. I have as many charges/slows/knockdowns as a warrior can get, if I could still be so easily kited warriors would be underpowered (Which I'm sure Arenanet does not want)

The people who put all of their effort into getting away from me are the ones I WANT to be fighting. It's a lockdown build, if they're using all of their energy running away and doing nothing else, the build is a success.

If anything, the counter to my build will be the builds that DON'T run away, and stand their ground to fight me off.

The problem is that both Thief and Mesmer is built around getting away. And the builds that I made with the utilities was more made for countering your movement so that you'll be more lock downed. The thief will run in/out all the time to not be hit by your big swings mostly.
A mesmer will make you forget who you're and what you're doing Maybe not, but he'll make you do things you shouldn't.
The only class that I'm aware of that would do really good by standing next to a warrior is the guardian at the moment... Or another warrior?

---------- Post added 2012-02-06 at 03:22 PM ----------

The Ranger!

The build:

Combo:

When you got your enemy stuck in something like; Frost trap or Entangle or you've just used your ice bears roar that makes them freeze (said in a post combined with cross-profession-combos).
Then you'll start your real rotation; Hunter's Shot (give him lesser armor = more damage) --> Rapid Fire (while running away) --> Long Range Shot (more damage the further away you're) --> Barrage/Long Range Shot.
At this stage he should be onto you again or dodged your skills, to counter his dodge/close-gap skill.
1. He has used a so called "Gap-closer" which you'll counter with : Point Blank Shot
2. He has dodged your skills and went out of sight, you can't attack.
a) Try to hit him with barrage and get your trap laid out if you used entangle
b) Weapon swap to Sword/Axe, NEW COMBO: Serpent Strike (to get close) --> Slash --> Kick (knock back effect) --> Hornet Sting (to retreat back to your traps/better position to use long bow).
bb) If he countered your combo somehow you'll use Whirling Defense and then try to get away somehow.

So, as most have probably noticed this is a way to counter melee mainly.
Versus casters?

I'd guess that versus a caster you'd probably want to dodge his casted spells and then remove as many conditions as possible, which you got Healing Spring for, could get antidote-signet for this also.
To dodge his casted attacks you got the following; Dodge, Serpent Strike (leap around him), Whirling Defense (reflects the spell back), Point Blank Shot (knockback, i.e interrupt).
If you just used "Serpent Strike" you can follow that up with dodging via Hornet Sting (retreat backwards).

This build is made up to be very mobile and be able to keep both close combat and long range. It'll be a master of winning fights at a long range if the person place himself on a good spot. He got Lightning Reflexes + Quickening Zephyr which will combined do a massive amount of damage!

Wtb more Mesmer / Ranger info since that's my two professions!

[Meledelion]

SNIP

You dear sir, made the exact same builds I plan on running on my ranger (most of the time) depending on more pet info though, I kinda like the idea of camouflage a lot

[Deleted]

You dear sir, made the exact same builds I plan on running on my ranger (most of the time) depending on more pet info though, I kinda like the idea of camouflage a lot

I''ll be going camouflage if I defend a base/trebuchet, that's where I find it useful. To be having a surprise moment versus the enemy
For attacking/offensive ranger I won't be going with camouflage.

[Delias]

The problem is that both Thief and Mesmer is built around getting away. And the builds that I made with the utilities was more made for countering your movement so that you'll be more lock downed. The thief will run in/out all the time to not be hit by your big swings mostly.
A mesmer will make you forget who you're and what you're doing Maybe not, but he'll make you do things you shouldn't.
The only class that I'm aware of that would do really good by standing next to a warrior is the guardian at the moment... Or another warrior?[COLOR="red"]

My point is that if the most mobile of warriors can be eternally kited by a thief/mesmer, warriors would be underpowered against those classes. Arenanet is not dumb enough to make mesmers/thieves unkillable to warriors.

If a build made SPECIFICALLY to counter them does not work, warriors will be underpowered.

[Deleted]

My point is that if the most mobile of warriors can be eternally kited by a thief/mesmer, warriors would be underpowered against those classes. Arenanet is not dumb enough to make mesmers/thieves unkillable to warriors.

If a build made SPECIFICALLY to counter them does not work, warriors will be underpowered.

Skill is a big thing here and as well I'll mention you'll have partners whom will play a big part, this game is not about solo play in PvP, they even got cross-profession-combos to clarify this even more.
And yes if you made a build specifically to counter his movement in stealth and shit, you'll probably win at the end but what I'm trying to say is that if they solely try to kite and disturb your moves they'll in time get a partner to help beat you.
Also, to make a build around solely getting close to anyone is pretty stupid imo. If you do this you need a partner whom can deal great damage while you keep them crippled.
This is the cause of why this thread is hard to have. You'll have team partners who you'll build yourself around. Together you'll bring everything to the table to top your team, slows, damage, support etc.

[Deleted]

You'll have team partners who you'll build yourself around. Together you'll bring everything to the table to top your team, slows, damage, support etc.

This one will be hard for alot of people to wrap their brain around Anyways, great thread, alot of interesting reading

[Deleted]

This one will be hard for alot of people to wrap their brain around Anyways, great thread, alot of interesting reading

The people who understand will be the ones who'll top the tournaments I hope to be around at the top! :P Done quite good in WoW's arena so I guess I can do good here, if I just make every endeavor I can to learn every profession in and out and then learn to play my own profession with different combinations

Me... want... updated skill tool to the newest skills!

[Deleted]

The people who understand will be the ones who'll top the tournaments I hope to be around at the top! :P Done quite good in WoW's arena so I guess I can do good here, if I just make every endeavor I can to learn every profession in and out and then learn to play my own profession with different combinations

Me... want... updated skill tool to the newest skills!

I never liked pvp in wow, but pvp in gw2 looks really promising/awesome

[Deleted]

I never liked pvp in wow, but pvp in gw2 looks really promising/awesome

The PvP in WoW was indeed pretty poor, mainly because PvE affecting it. Otherwise it was good.
And indeed, PvP in GW2 seems really promising especially with the tournaments and that they're trying to become a new e-sport game!

[Deleted]

The PvP in WoW was indeed pretty poor, mainly because PvE affecting it. Otherwise it was good.
And indeed, PvP in GW2 seems really promising especially with the tournaments and that they're trying to become a new e-sport game!

I mostly didnt like pvp in wow becouse i found stealthed classes way to OP And this is my opinion, so now dont go and bash away at this and turn it into an argument people

[Squirrelbanes]

I'm enjoying looking at the skill builder and thinking about what I'll use for pvp. Can't wait to bring some carnage with me elementalist swapping attunements etc, but tbh I'm not making a definitive list yet as we don't know how the skills are balanced yet.
Can't wait to do this once a definitive list of skills and their exact properties are though

[Malthurius]

I'm enjoying looking at the skill builder and thinking about what I'll use for pvp. Can't wait to bring some carnage with me elementalist swapping attunements etc, but tbh I'm not making a definitive list yet as we don't know how the skills are balanced yet.
Can't wait to do this once a definitive list of skills and their exact properties are though

Hopefully the skill tool will be updated with all the skills AND traits from the game when the NDA is lifted and the public beta events finally launch. But in the mean time, there is nothing wrong with making a mock up build with the skills we know are there, whether they will change in the future isn't really the important thing right now. When the definitive list of skills and traits finally come I'm sure I and everyone else that has posted a build already will be re-imagining their strategy with the ill-informed builds now.

[Squirrelbanes]

Hopefully the skill tool will be updated with all the skills AND traits from the game when the NDA is lifted and the public beta events finally launch. But in the mean time, there is nothing wrong with making a mock up build with the skills we know are there, whether they will change in the future isn't really the important thing right now. When the definitive list of skills and traits finally come I'm sure I and everyone else that has posted a build already will be re-imagining their strategy with the ill-informed builds now.

Oh I didn't mean to suggest there is anything wrong with playing around with it now It's lots of fun. And it's good to get a clear understanding of what the profession is capable of. The skills tell you loads about the intended design and playstyle of the professions, and that's as valuable as knowing what the skills do.
I've got skills for my characters, but I'm just saying I'm not thinking about them too much as they'll likely change a bit. Not too much at this stage though I think.

[Underskilled]

Time for a thief build I've been working on.

Pistol/Pistol Short Bow Thief Build

All of the fun of ranged attacks, without the spells or pets! This is focused on being incredibly mobile, while being able to easily burst down targets with pistols, or kite them with the bow. This skillset boasts a large of spells that allow you to retreat, or get into stealth, which, when combined with teammates that lay down "walling" abilities, keeps you from getting hit.

First, the weapon choices. Though they're both ranged weapons, from what I've seen, pistols are for close range, to burst down the target, and the short bow is keep enemies far away while harassing them. Both have their uses, and really shine at what they do well. The Pistols Vital Shot leaves a bleed, so you can keep damage rolling on the target while focusing on being mobile. Body Shot makes them vulnerable, obviously used before preparing to burst. Unload seems to be your main burst skill, which coupled with other abilities, lets you hit like a truck. Retreating shot is a great move, damage and an escape ability. Head shot being a daze, is alright, especially after using an escape move. For the Short Bow, Trick Shot seems to be a basic nuke, which is only stronger with multiple people chasing you. Cluster Bomb doesn't seem TOO useful, but of course could shine if a group of enemies are advancing, and you want to get some long range damage. Disabling Shot is an amazing move, damage, escaping, crippling, AND immobilizing. Choking Gas could be useful to zone out the enemy, making it easier to keep the gap. Despite Infiltrator's Arrow closing the gap, combined with an immediate escape skill, it could be pretty good for juking an opponent.

The selectable skills are pretty straightforward. Withdraw to heal and escape, obvious choice. Apply poison, will certainly help add to your burst. Hide in Shadows, your stealth, obvious choice. Roll for Initiative, escape, and regain some initiative, allowing you to escape more, dawg. Invisible Stalker, your elite skill could vary, I chose this because 8 seconds of stealth while still being able to attack could had hundreds of uses, but choosing another for more burst is of course an option.

COMBOS

Body Shot > Apply Poison > Unload > Unload > Roll for Initiative > Vital Shot > Unload

We heard you like burst! Body Shot to leave them vulnerable, Apply Poison to prepare for burst, Unload twice, which will leave you with no initiative, roll to regain, vital shot to get the bleed rolling, and unload to keep the damage going. All of your escape skills are still useable, so a very versatile combo.

Choking Gas > Disabling Shot > Withdraw > Apply Poison > Trick Shot

This combo, would be if you were ambushed by someone. Choking Gas to get them to move themselves out, turn your character accordingly, Disabling Shot in such direction that you'll leap back to put the choking gas between you and him. Withdraw to make the gap even wider, and to heal damage they've done, then Apply Poison, and go to town.

COUNTERS

Basically, people with attacks that don't need to be aimed. Rangers and elementalists could be a problem, sufficient range, and constant damage to you. Actually, the previous warrior build I posted could be a problem as well, since it's could easily match your mobility with its mobility. Obviously mesmer's could be troublesome as well, with their decent mobility and, if confusion works the way I think it does, causing you to take damage with every unload shot.

[worprz]

Rifle Hammer Warrior Build

This build is meant to kite, The rifle provieds knockback, makes enemies vulnerable, bleeds, and cripples. The hammer has the ability to cripple and and has 2 knockbacks. Also this build uses kick, and throw bolas to keep enemies away.

This build has many tools to keep enemies away, Hammer has backbreaker to knockdown, staggering blow to knock back enemies, and hammer shock to cripple enemies. The rifle has aimed shot to cripple foes, rifle butt to knockback enemies.

Can use mending to heal and remove conditions so you can keep things like cripple and stuns off of you.

Combos

Aimed Shot > Kick? > Throw Bolas? > Brutal Shot > Bleeding Shot > Volley > Frenzy

Open on your target with aimed shot to make them run slower, if the enemy is a thief or has some ability to rush you then use kick to knock them back and throw bolas to hold them in place. Otherwise use brutal shot to make enemies vulnerable then bleeding shot to get a steady damage on your enemy and volley to put out more damage, then frenzy and run further back and repeat.

Rifle Butt / Kick/ Backbreaker/ Staggering Blow/ Hammershock > Switch to rifle? > frenzy > Aimed shot

Use Rifle Butt to knockback, or kick to knockback enemies, or backbreaker with your hammer to knock down your enemy, or Staggering Blow to knockback, or Hammershock to cripple. Then switch to rifle if you are not using it then use frenzy to get a good distance then use aimed shot to keep your enemy far away. The abilities should be used based on which weapon you have and what skills are not on cooldown. Use rifle butt first because it does the greatest damage and knocksback, if it is on cooldown or you have a hammer use kick because it sends them back the longest distance etc.

Counter Underskilled Mace/Mace longbow
With this build I have many tools to keep the enemy away and hold them in place, I will have bleeds and vulnerability conditions on my enemy and he will need to find away to get up close and dish out as much damage as I am. The only way my enemy could attack me would be with his longbow but the longbow has less damage than the rifle.

[Malthurius]

Ended up making this build trying to make a 'pure' support guardian and ended up making a pretty decent build.

Scepter/Focus Mace/Torch Guardian

This build is designed to support team mates and to give other players on your team an edge power wise
Scepter allows from some ranged damage and some control. Focus gives the ability to blind and remove conditions from teammates and shield of wrath is a good way to keep some pressure off, while being possibly doing some damage if ignored.
Mace gives some regen as well as some retaliation and more AoE damage. Torch gives even more AoE and more condition removable as well as a really cool quasi-defense/offense ability in Zealot's flame.

Healing breeze heals you and your allies a little, perfect for supporting your team.
All 3 utilities grant boons. These boons should probably be used in times of action to give your team a slight edge.
And sanctuary because there is no other choice at the moment. But it is a good defense CD that your team can use.

The build is very support heavy and doesn't have a lot of control (Albeit a VERY good control skill). However with all the support it brings it should be able to be used effectively if you use your placement and use of utility well. It should bring a definitive edge to your allies while in need.

Otherwise, you could probably kite a player really well with scepter/focus with it's awesome control in "Chains of Light" and Blind. If a player does manage to get close to you, mace/torch can provide a lot of melee retaliation in Zealot's flame and protector's strike.

EDIT - I'll dig this thread up when we get more info on skills and traits. Of course I'll come back to this thread If I come up with any other builds, or if anyone else adds anything.

[verrda]

Sword/Dagger+Pistol/Pistol High Movement Thief


This build is designed with the intention of weapon swapping a lot, darting from melee to ranged at the drop of a hat and staying as mobile as possible at all times while harassing a single target.

Every utility (cept for the elite and if they come out with a heavy movement elite you can but your ass i'll take that instead) serves it's purpose in this grand scheme of constant movement.

Withdraw with such a low cool-down and a backward dodge is really the keystone to most of the build, and for the most part will probably be used damn near cool-down.

The sword/dagger combo was chosen for the heavy amount of movement in the sword and dual skill, while the offhand daggers provides a ranged cripple (to aid kiting) and cloak and dagger to slip away unseen.

Pistol/Pistol on the other-hand is for when the thief is already at range and can focus much more effort on being offensive, tearing bullets into a target and if things get up in the thief's face and weapon swapping/withdraw are on cool-down there is the backward lunge on the offhand pistol, as well as a daze to prevent enemy action for a short duration.

[Underskilled]

EDIT: The Build has been edited of my stupidity!

Time for another fun build!

The Mildly Fun Rifle/Flamethrower Engineer!

Time for some fun blowing things up! This skill build is focused on two solid playstyles: Keep away with the rifle, and going toe-to-toe with the flamethrower. The diversity of this build will allow you to easily overcome lots of different setups, by simply swapping out the weapon.

The rifle, is the prime, and only, choice for playing keep away from enemies that really shouldn't get close, or dueling with another ranged class. Hip shot is your simple nuke, net shot will immobilize to help keep them away. Blunderbuss is an interesting skill, which, combined with the flamethrower, will let you do a ton of damage up close. Overcharged shot is perfect for this setup, knocks you away from the foe, and the foe away from you! Jump shot is another interesting skill, and your go to skill for getting in before swapping to the flamethrower.

Next, the flamethrower. Flame jet is your basic nuke, flame blast is good for heavy damage for players running away from you. Air blast may fire foes away, but it also fires away projectiles, which is perfect for some defense while trying to get in. Napalm will quickly remind people why they shouldn't stay in against you. Backdraft is the heart and soul of the flamethrower, pulling the enemy to you, is just perfect.

Now, for secondary skills. Healing turret is more for support, but it can be a nuisance, forcing foes to turn around and target it. Flamethrower, obviously. Thumper Turret is perfect for enemies going in as well, damage to them, and a lot of health if they turn around to destroy it. Flame turret has no description, but assuming it works like a flamethrower, it's just more pressure. I chose hounds for the elite skill because I'm going human, so you may choose something else.

Combos

Going in combo: Jump Shot > Blunderbuss > Net Shot > Swap to flamethrower > Napalm > Flame Blast > Backdraft > Flame Jet

Starting with the Rifle, jump in. Blunderbuss for the opening nuke, followed by net shot to keep them from moving. From there swap to flamethrower, and the fun begins. Set up Napalm and Flame Blast, to discourage them from staying in. Oh, you're trying to run? Just kidding! Backdraft to pull them into your two fiery terrors, and Flame Jet to keep the damage rolling.

Getting out combo: Air Blast > Napalm > Flame Blast > Swap to Rifle > Overcharged Shot > Net Shot > Thumper Turret > Hip Shot

If you need to get out for whatever reason, Air blast to get them away. Napalm+Flame Blast combo to keep them from wanting to go back in. Swap to the Rifle, and overcharged shot to make some distance. Net shot to keep them away while you deploy a thumper turret. Now, if they want to get in, they need to get through the napalm, flame blast, AND thumper turret.

God good I don't want to die combo: Air Blast (If not already in Rifle) > Swap to Rifle > Overcharged Shot > Net Shot > Healing Turret > Thumper Turret

With this, you immediately get away, heal yourself, and put your turret down to control space. If not already in rifle, Air Blast to make space, Overcharged Shot to make more space, Net Shot to stop them, and your two turrets to keep the gap open, as well as heal yourself. From here you can stay by the turret the keep them from going in.

Counters

Anything bulky, with good mobility. Kiting will prove difficult, and staying in may be even worse. Your best bet is to set up your napalm+flame blast combo followed by turrets, and dance around them until your team comes to help, or just wait it out and try to keep him in all your damage and debuffs.

[Deleted]

Time for another fun build!

The Super Fun Rifle/Pistol+Shield/Flamethrower Engineer!

Time for some fun blowing things up! This skill build is focused on three hybrid playstyles: Keep away with the rifle, defensive with your Pistol+Shield, and going toe-to-toe with the flamethrower. The diversity of this build will allow you to easily overcome lots of different setups, by simply swapping out the weapon.

The rifle, is the prime, and only, choice for playing keep away from enemies that really shouldn't get close, or dueling with another ranged class. Hip shot is your simple nuke, net shot will immobilize to help keep them away. Blunderbuss is an interesting skill, which, combined with the flamethrower, will let you do a ton of damage up close. Overcharged shot is perfect for this setup, knocks you away from the foe, and the foe away from you! Jump shot is another interesting skill, and your go to skill for getting in before swapping to the flamethrower.

The pistol+shield, is perfect for playing defensive. Explosive shot is your regular nuke, Dart volley most likely has a poison effect to it, so it's good for some damage over time while recovering. Static shot is a nice defensive shot, that will help mitigate damage while keep yourself alive. Absorb sounds VERY interesting, since it seems to work like both a defensive skill to absorb the attack, and offensive skill to fire it back. Deploy Ballistic barrier is another good skill if the gap between the enemy is opened, and they switch to a ranged weapon.

I'm sorry but the engineer can't have two weapon sets. Just like Elementalist we can only have one weapon set equipped. We have kits and toolbelt mechanic (every utility skill has additional, alternative skill) to make it up for it.

Please refer to: http://www.arena.net/blog/guild-wars...-by-jon-peters for additional explanation.