Spine reforging

[Xarganthos]

Hello..

i'm sorry if this question has already been answered but i couldnt find anything.

i just wanted to ask how i should reforge as arcane for spine of deathwing. how much haste would i need/would be best?

pardon my english

[Soulstrike]

it really doesnt matter how you reforge because last night we had 2 arcane mages (one who couldnt be bothered with fire(crit heavy build) and myself mastery>haste(1600ish)>crit did almost the same amount of dps )

if you however have SOW you should prob reforge into mastery build but really you cant tell the difference by reforging in this fight

[ciaro]

if you however have SOW you should prob reforge into mastery build but really you cant tell the difference by reforging in this fight

Is SoW really worth using for this fight?

[klaps_05]

full mastery reforge
never equip SOW for that fight

setting up the burst properly is the difference between crap and great dps

[Norech]

Is SoW really worth using for this fight?

Nope, it's better to use Bottle Wishes + WoB... or I've heard of some people using H: VPLC (I personally didn't).

This was more of a personal thing, but I went for a lot of haste.. I think my spine reforging was at like 2400 mastery and 2100 haste. Might've been doing it wrong. /shrug

[Soulstrike]

well people saying BW is better than SOW, what else is there to use that trinket other than tendon burn??nothing right??

the quicker you get amalgamation down to 9stack(and low health) means you are dealing with less raid damage overall and less stress on healers mana

so why would you use BW if you are geting <45% on 1 tendon burn?? i would rather do more dps on amalgamation with SOW for spare dps

[Xarganthos]

unfortunately i dont have SoW so i bought Bottled Wishes.

thank you so far^^

[Heilige]

well people saying BW is better than SOW, what else is there to use that trinket other than tendon burn??nothing right??

the quicker you get amalgamation down to 9stack(and low health) means you are dealing with less raid damage overall and less stress on healers mana

so why would you use BW if you are geting <45% on 1 tendon burn?? i would rather do more dps on amalgamation with SOW for spare dps

Because Tendon damage is essentially your boss damage on the fight, and is 90% of the damage that actually matters. If you're having issues on Amalg's - SoW isn't a terrible trinket - but if you're going straight for Tendon damage Bottled Wishes can/will rape SoW's soul on damage for Tendons.

[Turwok]

I manage to increase my dmg on tendons by getting the haste cap for berserking (20%) instead of BL/Hero (30%).

This fight is a minimun of 6 tendons phases, only one with Bloodlust, and that one should not be the problem since all the raid dmg is increased, so increasing your tendon damage in 5 out of 6 phases can better for the raid (if your raid is having problem burning tendons to <50%).

About BW x SoW, BW is a little better for tendon phases, but SoW is much much better for dmging amalgamations and breaking grips. Like Soulstrike said, if your raid can burn the tendon to <45%, you should go for SoW, if not go for BW. I am the only mage without SoW in my raid, I´m topping dmg on tendons but far behind on amalgamation damage.

Those wandering, haste cap for troll berserking is 2982 (2482 with 2pct13), for goblins and non-goblins is 5900+.

[DreamSpyre]

Since the nerf, this really could be contested back and forth. If your guild is able to get a tendon to less than 45% without you using BW, I would replace it for the entire fight. Overall, the faster the Amalgamations die, and the more control you have on killing and eventually kiting bloods will be the deciding factor in your kill nowadays. If I had a SoW, I would definitely start using that over BW for our kills.

Those wandering, haste cap for troll berserking is 2982 (2482 with 2pct13), for goblins and non-goblins is 5900+.

Wait, what? First, why would you even list the haste cap for Goblins under berserking considering they can't use it. And secondly, how is it even remotely possible that cap for non-goblins is 3k higher than a goblins, even though goblins only get 1% haste (~150ish rating).

[Xarganthos]

i'm currently at 1945 haste rating (worgen) and 2079 mastery. i'm currently raiding 10m and last night we tried spine, but somehow i feel like my burst dps is not where it should be. i'm on corruption duty too and sometimes we mess up with timing grip but if the retri paladin does more dps than a mage i guess i'm doing something wrong..

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-kiwi1fpizc7e3pqb/ sorry its german :S

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nthos/advanced my armory (fire spec is active)

[DreamSpyre]

i'm currently at 1945 haste rating (worgen) and 2079 mastery. i'm currently raiding 10m and last night we tried spine, but somehow i feel like my burst dps is not where it should be. i'm on corruption duty too and sometimes we mess up with timing grip but if the retri paladin does more dps than a mage i guess i'm doing something wrong..

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-kiwi1fpizc7e3pqb/ sorry its german :S

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nthos/advanced my armory (fire spec is active)

Sometimes you'll get unlucky with timing the grip breaks, it happens. I'm on grip duty myself, and it gets painful when a grip goes off about midway through a tendon burn on someone like our Sub Rogue or Spriest. The best thing to do about that is just do better amalg dps, it will help the timers line up more often, easier.

I'm having a hell of a time looking through your logs, but your tendon damage (At least I think it's tendon damage, lol) is the highest in your group, and looks to be pretty good. If I knew german I could probably give you more information but it's hard to find what to look for in another language, lol. As far as overall dps, other classes, especially melee cleavers will always do far far more damage than you throughout the course of the fight because there will always be bloods for them to hit as well. Our frost DK is like 5-6k higher than any of us in total damage, but only does half the tendon damage. Everyone has their roles this fight, whether its to do amazing tendon damage, or burning the hell out of the amalg or bloods. It really comes together when everyone gets good at what their specific task is, and then even better at the other ones too. The logs look good if those are your very first attempts.

[Xarganthos]

yeah it was our first night but i think we all could have done better. raid communication is almost zero, people putting dots on corruptions etc -.-

i tend to forget to switch my armor to molten before burning, would that be a huge dps loss?

also: i'm trying to kill the corruption as soon as the amalgation explodes to ensure we dont get a grip while dpsing tendons. is this a stupid idea or should we time the explosion with the grip timer?

[Turwok]

Wait, what? First, why would you even list the haste cap for Goblins under berserking considering they can't use it. And secondly, how is it even remotely possible that cap for non-goblins is 3k higher than a goblins, even though goblins only get 1% haste (~150ish rating).

These caps I´ve calculated ignores BL, the reason is that you only get BL in a minor part of the fight where the higher raid dps counterbalance the damage your losing from having cast time <1s, and so reforging haste for the larger part of the fight is the best choice for higher burns on tendons.

Trolls have 20% haste for 10s and can use it 3 times this fights on tendon phases, thats why trolls cap is lower. The focus here is the tendons.
A troll needs 2982 haste from gear to reach 1s cast ABx4 with Berserking active.
A goblin needs 5952 haste to reach 1s cast (without Berserking of course).
Non-trolls and non-goblins needs 6140 haste.

All of these numbers considers 5% spell haste buff and Netherwind Presence 3%.

Is it clear now?

[parella]

well - we tried both tactics - killing corruption right after amalgamation starts casting nuclear blast (corruption is already at 20% hp or so, therefore nuking it down during this 5seconds is piece of cake) or force amalgamation to explode right after corruption grips anyone.
it was BEFORE the nerf and the latter tactic was very very difficult to implement to work every time correctly - with first one we had noticably more trouble with bloods before 5th and 6th tendon on the other hand :-)

after the nerf we zerg amalgamations to shorten this phase as much as possible and we kill corruption together with nuclear explosion.. it makes handling of bloods before 5th and 6th tendon burn a WHOLE lot easier - we even use time warp for sixth amalgamation to slower this phase and make it for healers and kiting tank easier. worked for us pretty well :-)

[Xarganthos]

we managed to kill first tendon only once.. so yeah^^.. we save up heroism as well for later tendons. problem is first we get the tendon to like 45-48% and still fail to kill it the second time because some ppl dont have enough cds ready (at least thats their excuse)

[parella]

well - our setup is overkill for a 10 man raid (2arcane mages with fully buffed ranged setup) but on the other hand we were not waiting for CDs (AP was ready again ofc, bottled wishes usually went out of CD just in time but i could use mana gem only 3 times (1st, 3rd, 5th tendon nuke), other classes did not have all their CDs ready as well. what really helps is this macro (for left tendon, for right tendon it is boss3):

/tar boss2

it helps you target tendons immediately as they appear. ordinary /target does not work properly :-/

also killing corruption before tendons phase starts will help (you dont have to take care of grip which messes badly with your dmg done to tendons).

if you have resto shaman or disco priest or balance druid they MUST help you with dmg to tendon as well. tank with bloods can tank them on tendon and can do good dmg to it as well - you MUST help him with taunting and taking care of newly spawned bloods by running towards the plate right after amalgamation blows up and stand as close to tendon as possible.

[Xarganthos]

yeah we're not waiting for cds as well, thats probably the reason we fail at killing the tendon. our healers are way to busy keeping the raid alive, i dont think they are currently able to dps anything (maybe later when everyone has more experience with the fight)

oh thanks for the macro, it worked pretty well for me, but its always better to be on the save side.

[rastapasta]

We had a really hard time with this fight till we changed from people trying to do top tendon dps to everyone mostly going back to their regular spec or reforging. Because like someone pointed out this fight is now more about killing it quickly before the bloods get too out of control instead of tendon dps, at least on 10 man, so our amalg dps was very important. But to answer the question i was reforged to mastery and did great damage on everything.

[thehordemage]

Need dps on Burning Tendons? use BW
Don't need dps on Burning Tendons? use SoW to push for faster explosions