StarCraft 2 general question about ladders

[nibirue]

Firstly, I'm surprised there isn't an official SC2 forum on mmo-champ.. But that doesn't matter, I only have a general question about ladder mechanics. I just bought the game and I have about 4 live matches under my belt in the bronze division. Yes, I'm a complete noob. I have lost each game so far, some worse than others. Will losing a bunch of initial games hinder my progress once I get mildly decent? Will I be in a deep hole or do losses on a 0-x record not have any affect? To be more specific, I'll give an example:
1) Your "points" are at 0. A win gives 10 points, a lose gives -10
so... 0-4 record = -40 points
i.e. until I hit 0 points, I won't actually be making any progress.

OR

2) Your points are at 0. A win gives 10, a loss -10
so... 0-4 record = 0
i.e. no loss in points relative to others if you haven't even made initial progress.

I doubt it works *exactly* like my description, but which does it mirror mostly? Thanks.

[llDemonll]

Caught in spam filter, here's a free bump!

[seam]

Points themselves don't mean a lot for progression, you have a hidden ladder ranking, or MMR(MatchMaking Rating) that determines who you play against. The MMR is pretty fluid, if you shake the box, it WILL change, and you'll get promoted based on that.


However, based on how you worded the question I'm guessing you did, in fact, mean points. In which case it would be more like the second example. There is no negative points, so no worries :3. Beginning losses will not hinder you in the future in any way.(They will only help, as you'll play against weaker players if you continue to lose)


Short Version: It's like B.

[Tradu]

There are no negative ladder points, but as seam said, your league depends on MMR, not ladder points(but most of the time your ladder rank and MMR are related very closely)

Also, in my experience, you should just spam buttons like crazy during your Placement Matches to get into high leagues, because the way I understand it, the league you get dumped in depends on your APM. Reason for me believing that is the case is that I've lost every single placement match I've ever gotten into(ever since season 2), and every other match, pretty much, but still I always get put into 1 league above the guy who completely stomps my different terrible 1base terran builds and cannonrush into mass zealot protoss. (If this isn't how it works, how DOES it work? :P)

[seam]

Also, in my experience, you should just spam buttons like crazy during your Placement Matches to get into high leagues, because the way I understand it, the league you get dumped in depends on your APM. Reason for me believing that is the case is that I've lost every single placement match I've ever gotten into(ever since season 2), and every other match, pretty much, but still I always get put into 1 league above the guy who completely stomps my different terrible 1base terran builds and cannonrush into mass zealot protoss. (If this isn't how it works, how DOES it work? :P)

This is incorrect, the only thing determined after a game(Placement or otherwise) is if you win, and where the other player was placed.

The placements at the end of a season is simply to see if you are active, and have no bearing in which league you get.


If you lose to someone in a lower league, it can mean that you are on the lower end of your league, or the other player is on the rise.(Or both.)

[Tradu]

This is incorrect, the only thing determined after a game(Placement or otherwise) is if you win, and where the other player was placed.

The placements at the end of a season is simply to see if you are active, and have no bearing in which league you get.


If you lose to someone in a lower league, it can mean that you are on the lower end of your league, or the other player is on the rise.(Or both.)

I can see what you mean, but that doesn't make much sense. I've lost to silvers ever since I started, and been in lower end gold every season(played about 50 games per season) except this one, where I lost to a bronze and got into silver. So either they demoting is really slow, or something is broken. How do I have a gold-level MMR if I constantly lose to people in lower leagues?

[seam]

As I said, if you were gold and playing against silver, then you are on the lower end of your league, and they were on the higher end of theirs.

Playing someone one league below you is not uncommon. There is a gray area in terms of the ladder due to hope you need to be promoted/demoted.

Say it takes 1k MMR to go from gold to silver, and 1.5k to go from silver to gold(If you're wondering how I got those numbers, you can't have the same number as a flat cutoff, otherwise players who just get into gold will be demoted back after a single loss). For that whole 1001 to 1499 area you have gold and silver players going at eachother. It is also possible for a silver player to have a higher MMR than a gold player, due to this.

If you want really in dept detail, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=195273

[asher1611]

Also keep in mind that you might get better but not good enough to necessarily get promoted this time. But come ladder reset time you might end up in a totally different league.

For instance, last season I slogged through Bronze winning more than I was losing but never getting promoted. This season, which I started halfway through, I somehow qualified for gold. Granted, I lost a bunch of matches in the beginning, but now I'm beating bronze and silver players on a consistent basis but remain in Gold League.

[PizzaSHARK]

Your visible points are irrelevant. Your hidden MMR is what determines which league you're in.

Your MMR raises and lowers based on the opponents you're facing. The system will regularly place you in matches against players both significantly above your MMR and significantly below your MMR in an attempt to place you where you belong - where your win rate across all games is 50%.

If you win a game versus someone much higher than you, your MMR will increase significantly. If you lose a game against someone much higher than you, your MMR will see a minimal change. The reverse is true - if you win a game versus someone lower than you, your see a minimal change. If you lose versus someone lower than you, you'll see a significant decrease. Wins and losses versus players in your area are mild changes in either direction.

The system is designed to place you where you will maintain a 50% win rate across all games, and it's designed to function over hundreds and thousands of games, so don't be surprised if you're constantly moving across leagues early on.

Leagues are also irrelevant. League designations are just handy methods of grouping certain MMR levels together - like, for example, we could say that Gold might be MMR 1250-1500 or something, and then Platinum might be 1501-1749 or something.