Shadow and Dark intent with 4set t13

[zakaluka]

Here's the important bit you missed:

I just did a bit of reading and noticed that the default simcraft balance druid profile has a haste level that's below one of their major breakpoints. That would explain why they are showing a 500 dps increase over the shadowpriests in heroic BIS gear.

Look, yes, I misquoted the numbers. Oops. My point still stands: I haven't met a balance druid that could push competitive DPS since BoT (although I do know they exist, it's just not common). In context, the whole thing is meant to illustrate that SPriest preserves their ranking for DI. Do YOU know a legendary rogue that runs sub 100%? You're intent on pulling the numbers out of context to make your point, and it's causing unnecessary confusion. I really suggest everyone who wants good info just go read the topic at H2P. Read the whole thing. This thread right here is confusing.

[Arlee]

That is actually exactly why I said the bit about plateaus in my post Zak... for boomkins the value of DI is nearly all in crossing that haste plateau.

[gakpad]

Here's the important bit you missed:

and

That is actually exactly why I said the bit about plateaus in my post Zak... for boomkins the value of DI is nearly all in crossing that haste plateau.

I actually explicitly mentioned that and explicitly disregarded it. Reading later in the thread:

There we go. Mystery solved. So basically for druids:

Without DI: breakpoint is 31?? (over 3107)
With DI, it's 2639 (easly reachable)

The break point is worth over 200 dps. So it gets wrapped up into the value of the buff. That's why druids are "on top" this tier for DI.

The break point you're mentioning has been accounted for, and only provides just over a ~200 dps increase in best in slot gear, which only accounts for roughly 2/3 balance druid's lead over spriests. The breakpoint does make a difference, but a marginal one - they'd be ahead regardless due to better scaling. Notice how the front page chart no longer displays the 500 dps increase balance druids had over shadow priests Kilee originally referenced earlier in the thread. The rankings are accurate.

[Arlee]

Did you miss the part where he said "So it gets wrapped up into the value of the buff. That's why druids are "on top" this tier for DI." ? Meaning... that if they aren't crossing that point they don't get that benefit and it drops them down lower on the priority.

[gakpad]

Did you miss the part where he said "So it gets wrapped up into the value of the buff. That's why druids are "on top" this tier for DI." ? Meaning... that if they aren't crossing that point they don't get that benefit and it drops them down lower on the priority.

Here's how much dps the threshold provides:

Oh.. got it, got it. The break point is at 2639.

38,577 - 38,371 = 206 dps

The balance druid raid dps *including the threshold* is 3499, while the priest's is 3087. So with the threshold, the druid has a (3499-3087) 412 raid dps advantage. If we then subtract the dps the druid gets from the breakpoint (412-206), you can see that the druid still has a 206 dps advantage over the priest. With higher gear, the value of this breakpoint hovers up to ~275, which still is not enough to put moonkins below spriests even without DI pushing them past a breakpoint. What part of this aren't you comprehending?

---------- Post added 2012-02-10 at 09:59 PM ----------

Another bit from Kilee in the thread:

Aah.. ok one one last try. So without DI, I need 3102 haste, so I would need to go with a profile like this:

http://chardev.org/?profile=330951

* Edit: It appears the actual number is a little higher than 3102, or even 3107.

This would avoid touching any break points when gaining DI.

DPS: 45,951 dps
with DI: 47,685 dps
gain: 1,734 dps

1,734 dps on the moonkin without any breakpoints versus the 1669/1571 (normal rotation/4pc rotation, respectively) dps on a spriest. Last time I checked, 1734 is higher than 1669 or 1571, and that's not even including the impact of the warlock's lost feedback uptime when using DI on a priest using MS (which is what this thread is about in the first place). Add in the fact that the comparison was done with a highly suboptimal moonkin gearset to avoid crossing any haste breakpoints, and its apparent that moonkins are going to be on top this tier even without breakpoints or any of that factored in.



---------- Post added 2012-02-10 at 10:00 PM ----------

Meaning... that if they aren't crossing that point they don't get that benefit and it drops them down lower on the priority.

In no place of that thread/discussion did Kilee even imply that the breakpoint was the sole reason druids were on top, or that they would be lower in priority rankings if they didn't cross the breakpoint. S/he mentioned it as a factor, but that's the furthest extent to which the topic was ever discussed/concluded.

---------- Post added 2012-02-10 at 10:35 PM ----------

@some of the ninja edits people threw in, I am not saying that using MS will always change whether or not you should get DI. It depends on who else is dpsing in the raid. I'm not saying that all rogues go subtlety and therefore it is best to put it on the rogue over the priest all the time. Don't misquote me. There will be situations and scenarios that change who the best person to give DI to in a situation will be, and priests using the MS rotation with 4t13 is a contributing factor to them. Since everyone apparently can only read what I'm saying as "Priests with 4t13 is a bad DI target and should never get it over rogues or moonkins" I'll duck out of this thread. To those reading it for actual information, I hope you can read the H2P thread and this thread objectively and make an informed decision on your own, despite the few who are hell-bent on insisting that using mind spike does nothing to change the raid dps putting DI on them results in, completely ignoring any/all evidence presented to the contrary. Learning to break the thought pattern of thinking solely in absolutes will do many of you good. Enjoy.