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  1. #1

    Faction imbalance makes PvP on my server futile

    So, I hit 50 on Kaas City over the weekend, cashed in 5 Bags and got a single piece. (A bit under average, but I can live with that).

    I then tried to do my daily and weekly.

    I won two Battlegrounds (1 didn't count towards the reward... thanks bioware) in about 20 attempts. I am going up against Battlemaster's and Sorc's with 3-4k HP more then my sage has.

    My question is, how do we keep up with Empire? They clearly have a very large gear advantage (mostly due to Illum numbers and the possibility to get their dailies and weeklies done). I have been chatting with republic on my server, making friends with PvPers. I went from a 75% win ratio leveling up, to a 10% win ratio, and it seems it's "normal" for us. We also seem to always be short 1 or 2 players... What's with that? 8 vs 6 isn't fair. 8 better geared vs 6 is even worst.

    Managed to get a few Illum kills (5 of us grouped up for that) before we were overrun by 4 times the imperials.

    How is Bioware going to fix that? Empire has the numbers to keep Illum, that means faster PvP gear progression, meaning that over time they will win more and more battlegrounds. Went up against a Marauder (Battlemaster) that effectively killed two of us 1 v 2. We were doing fine until he hit both of us for 6k.

    I have very low expertise, but I was also thinking... Expertise. If the barrier to entry was high in WoW with resilience, expertise makes it twice as large, because it also increases your damage.

    Bioware screwed up PvP. As an aside, I am also leveling a character on empire, my server, and I will attempt the same thing at lvl 50. I want to compare the two experiences. Anyone else on the (much) smaller faction find it difficult to compete? What are your solutions?

  2. #2
    I just stopped PvPing to be totally honest, the only other option I see at the moment is to reroll, either to Empire, or to another server where Republic aren't quite as outnumbered. But for now at least, I stopped at rank 56 since before 1.1, did Ilum once or twice since then, and a a fraction of the amount of WZs I used to do.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Rakoth View Post
    So, I hit 50 on Kaas City over the weekend, cashed in 5 Bags and got a single piece. (A bit under average, but I can live with that).
    I also play on Kaas City, what is your character name there, just out of curiosity. As to your PvP questions, I do not do much PvP, but there are several in our guild that do PvP often that I could put you in touch with.
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  4. #4
    Pit Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakoth View Post
    Empire has the numbers to keep Illum, that means faster PvP gear progression, meaning that over time they will win more and more battlegrounds.
    I think this kind of PvP momentum is inevitable in any 2-faction MMO. Once one side gains a numbers advantage, that will roll into additional advantages that only increase the PvP disparity between the groups. Better gear, higher population leads to more wins, which attracts better players, which leads to better gear, and so on ad nauseum.

    I don't think there's anything Bioware can do about it, since it's ultimately a player-created problem. The only thing I can tell you is... reroll Empire.
    ^ The above should be taken with two grains of salt and a fistful of "chill the F* out".

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Profyrion View Post
    The only thing I can tell you is... reroll Empire.
    Because that fixes the imbalance. However, if you really really enjoy Huttball, then create a Sith character. The Empire plays that more than any other warzone. My main is Republic, though I have some lowly Sith characters also. I'm just not quite sure why there is more interest in one side over the other. Both have really good stories.
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  6. #6
    Faction imbalance sounds exactly like my old WoW server where Alliance outnumbered us Horde by 5:1 (or something like that). Sure made it satisfying to win though

  7. #7
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
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    Don't queue with anything less than a full group of competent people. My solo queue win rate is drastically lower than it is when I queue with three of my guildies that I know actually have functioning brains. Aside from that there really isn't much Bioware can do to solve faction imbalance. They can remove weekly/daily rewards, which in the end barely contributes to gear discrepancies. They can't force people to not play Empire without absolutely pissing off their customers by locking the faction from being able to create characters or by randomly switching guilds to Republic. There is no easy solution that Bioware can implement to fix the faction imbalance. It is a player caused issue that only players can solve, but you should know from WoW there is no way in hell they will do that. If Bioware implements faction change (which from a story standpoint would be massively dumb) to try and help the issue you will just get folks flocking to Imperials.

    Although I suppose if everyone does flock to that one side they can just make every bg able to be played against your own faction therefore completely eliminating the faction discrepancy issue in bgs (obviously not in Ilum or anywhere else). Perhaps they should have just went one faction (which doesn't fit the lore that well) and made Empire only NPCs although that would effectively kill World PvP outside of FFA.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ohnoto View Post
    . I'm just not quite sure why there is more interest in one side over the other. Both have really good stories.
    Not for nothing, but no. The Empire stories are much more fun, exciting and compelling. But even aside from the stories, we knew this problem would exist before anyone knew what the stories were. The impending imbalance was evident just by the forum posts and pre-launch guild program.

    People want to be the bad guy in games because they can't be in real life. Be it shooting lightning is more cool than throwing rocks, or people want to pretend they're a Bounty Hunter like Boba Fett... This really isn't rocket surgery.

    There really isn't much Bioware can do to fix this other than make the Republic stories much darker and more unpredictable, with some exciting and compelling plot twists. Of course, no idea how they can do that now... seems a bit too late. It's not like they can just change the entire story that each class has.

  9. #9

    Small guild

    I guess the biggest issue is that I am a casual pvper and my guildies don't join me most times. I also believe that even grouped we won't make a huge dent.

    My main's name is Selenei on Kaas City, Republic. My alt's name is Rakoth.

    I don't want them to change the story, and I guess reducing the barrier to entry to pvp will help. I believe making expertise a double stat is what really exasperated the problem. Same faction Warzones would also help.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ohnoto View Post
    . I'm just not quite sure why there is more interest in one side over the other. Both have really good stories.
    This is just not true. My main is republic (Death Wind Corridor, Tial is anyone cares) but most of my alts are Empire because the storylines are just that much richer. With the exception of the Sith Inquis storyline (Which seemed to become a hot mess after Act I, all of the Empire stories are leaps and bounds above the republic storyline. My Gunslinger almost didn't make it to 50 because of how annoyed/bored I was by Act III. I play my Juggy and I'm practically dying to get to the next scene, my IA always has me thinking and choosing my options carefully, and my BH always has me laughing and excited for what comes next. Nothing Republic side really does that (Though the Trooper line is good, hands done the best Republic has to offer)

  11. #11
    Epic! WarpedAcorn's Avatar
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    I can honestly say that the pre-tier PvP was better in regards that the more populated Empire would often mean more low level players in the match. But with the tier seperation, I have had a lot more fun playing in the 10-49 bracket. Its much more fun (to me) to play without Expertise.

    I know the reason for having PvP gear in an MMO, it gives people a sense of accomplishment and something to work for. But at the same time I like the way GW2 is doing it by making the gear for all PvP to be equal. That way you have a skill and teamwork based competition as opposed to being totally outclassed by gear. Because there is nothing more frustrating than being unable to take a fully Battlemaster geared Scoundrel Healer below 75% life due to lack of PvP gear. Ideally players should be able to jump in at any time and be competative (like in the 10-49 bracket).


    Edit: Sorry forgot to answer the OP question. Honestly there is nothing they can do except offer incentives to the underepresented faction in the form of bonus Valor/Commendations by being underdogs. You can't FORCE players to be a specific underdog faction unfortunately.

  12. #12
    I am honestly not certain about your server, but on mine I am starting to see a both factions balancing out cause I am getting less and less huttball, Illum is filled with a crap ton republic players, and even all the other regular planets I see a lot of them around. So yeah might just be my server.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ohnoto View Post
    Both have really good stories.
    Consular versus Inquisitor stories are not even close. Inquisitor's storyline blows the Consular's story out of the water.

  14. #14
    Pandaren Monk Shamburger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerion View Post
    Consular versus Inquisitor stories are not even close. Inquisitor's storyline blows the Consular's story out of the water.
    If this is true it makes me feel sorry for the consulars since the Inq story it utter rubbish.
    Common sense, evidence, and logic aren't things very many people are accepting of when the result of it means they're wrong.

  15. #15
    I don't understand why they don't just let people from both factions get on the same team in warzones. Those people could act as mercenaries or something, and I'm sure people care much more about PvPing than actual lore problems.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Rakoth View Post
    I guess the biggest issue is that I am a casual pvper and my guildies don't join me most times. I also believe that even grouped we won't make a huge dent.

    My main's name is Selenei on Kaas City, Republic. My alt's name is Rakoth.

    I don't want them to change the story, and I guess reducing the barrier to entry to pvp will help. I believe making expertise a double stat is what really exasperated the problem. Same faction Warzones would also help.
    I'll try looking you up tonight. My character is Ohnota or Elexia. I'll give you some names and our vent information that you could possibly join some of our members in PvP.

    As for same faction warzones, Huttball is that, but since Empire outnumber on most every server, The Republic doesn't get it much. When we do, it's usually against the Empire, who seem better at it since they get it more often. Rumor is that the Warzone coming in Patch 1.2 will allow for same faction as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gerion View Post
    Consular versus Inquisitor stories are not even close. Inquisitor's storyline blows the Consular's story out of the water.
    Not going to deny that, I just said that both have good stories. I do agree that the Consular story is not intriguing enough. My wife and a co-worker play that, so I am familiar with the story. Personally, I play a Trooper and I have a Knight, Warrior, and Agent alt. I've heard great things about the Knight and Smuggler stories from other guild mates.
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  17. #17
    PVP in SWTOR is the worst i've ever seen. I woulds highly advise against getting into the game for PVP, unless they change some things up.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by WarpedAcorn View Post
    and be competative (like in the 10-49 bracket)
    Oh, please. Soloing three <30 players on my 46 Marauder? Easy peasy.

    When I get jumped by 10-30, I walk away from fight with 80% HP.

    Game badly needs brackets.

  19. #19
    Only thing that will balance or keep faction is incentives.

    The lower population faction needs incentives to want to PvP, or to stop them from rerolling.

    Lower pop at a given time should get a 25-30% bonus to valor/coms/xp or some type of incentive to keep players PvPing or rerolling.

    Ilum is a whole other ballgame, talk about a botched feature.

    I have ideas for Ilum that I have posted but BW isn't going to listen they are basically in triage mode to give small meaningless patches to try to stop pvpers from fleeing.

    Sorry to say it, but this game needs cross server PvP.

    With a 10-49 bracket
    A Level 50 bracket broken up by either
    a. Valor ranks 1-59 and 60+
    b. Expertise amounts 1-400 and 400+

    or something similar.

    Character hits 50, saves up comms while leveling, opens 6 bags gets nothing.
    0 Expertise
    Gets totally annihilated by people who have been 50 for months.

    Or let people farm champion bags while leveling.
    I have burnt over 8000 comms on green pvp boxes on my 48 operative,
    Add those to my stockpile of pooled comms and that gives me what 16 champ bags?
    From all the PvP I have done while leveling. That is nothing.

    ---------- Post added 2012-02-06 at 01:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawt View Post
    PVP in SWTOR is the worst i've ever seen. I woulds highly advise against getting into the game for PVP, unless they change some things up.
    You haven't seen much then, the PvP isn't stellar but its not remotely close to the worse in the MMO genre.

  20. #20
    Epic! WarpedAcorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsi View Post
    Oh, please. Soloing three <30 players on my 46 Marauder? Easy peasy.

    When I get jumped by 10-30, I walk away from fight with 80% HP.

    Game badly needs brackets.

    You should be able to stomp bad players of any level. I've done quite well 1v1'ing and 1v2'ing on my Assassin in the lower 20's vs. players in their 30's and 40's. And conversely had several Grey-Con players give me a run for my money (because I am a dead average PvPer). I think the Bolster mechanic is working fairly well, and coupled with the fact that most classes get their core abilities early on means you fairly balanced gameplay. Higher levels will, of course, have more access to situational skills and abilities. In your specific case, you'll be able to do a defensive rotation using all 3 of your CD's, coupling your 99% damage reduction with a Warzone Health Stim. But your offense isn't much different from lower level.

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