Resto Mastery Uptime Advice Needed (and WG glyph ?)

[Druover]

Hey guys,

I recently created a poweraura to track my mastery uptime, and I've realized I'm not keeping it up as much as I thought I was (sorry my guild does not do WoL). I'm in a 10 man guild and we 3 heal most fights. For normal modes with 3 people, healing has been fairly easy, but I know that will soon change in heroics. I've also recently reforged almost all my spirit I can into mastery. So long story short, my mastery uptime will soon be much more important.

I cast HT on tanks quite a bit when I can, which helps, but as a tree, i'm more raid healer and not tied to a tank). I also try to SM on CD which keeps it up a good chunk. But do you guys have any advice, rules of thumbs, or strats that you use to intentionally keep harmony up? I occasionally find myself throwing out alot of RJs with WG on CD, and forget about mastery. And of course, its these times where it would really be needed.

Also, seperate question, but is anyone in 10 man guilds using the glyph of WG? I found my 6th target was often going to pets, and since it was such a "rotation" change, I have not been using it. But, using it every 10 sec instead of every 8 sec could really help give me extra time to keep harmony up. Never really read about that dynmaic when people were comparing the +/- of the glyph.

Thanks in advance for your help! Gotta love this great tree community here.

[Sevaara]

Hey guys,

I recently created a poweraura to track my mastery uptime, and I've realized I'm not keeping it up as much as I thought I was (sorry my guild does not do WoL). I'm in a 10 man guild and we 3 heal most fights. For normal modes with 3 people, healing has been fairly easy, but I know that will soon change in heroics. I've also recently reforged almost all my spirit I can into mastery. So long story short, my mastery uptime will soon be much more important.

I cast HT on tanks quite a bit when I can, which helps, but as a tree, i'm more raid healer and not tied to a tank). I also try to SM on CD which keeps it up a good chunk. But do you guys have any advice, rules of thumbs, or strats that you use to intentionally keep harmony up? I occasionally find myself throwing out alot of RJs with WG on CD, and forget about mastery. And of course, its these times where it would really be needed.

Also, seperate question, but is anyone in 10 man guilds using the glyph of WG? I found my 6th target was often going to pets, and since it was such a "rotation" change, I have not been using it. But, using it every 10 sec instead of every 8 sec could really help give me extra time to keep harmony up. Never really read about that dynmaic when people were comparing the +/- of the glyph.

Thanks in advance for your help! Gotta love this great tree community here.

Well when you're raid healing, don't underestimate Nature's Bounty.

"In addition, when you have Rejuvenation active on three or more targets, the cast time of your Nourish spell is reduced by 30%."

Also, nourish every 10 seconds to keep lifebloom up on the tank will also keep your mastery active.

edit: as for the glyph, I hear it's a HPS loss in 10 man but a gain in 25 man and since I've only healed 25 I can't really give you any accurate advice on that.

[coolye]

Hey guys,

I recently created a poweraura to track my mastery uptime, and I've realized I'm not keeping it up as much as I thought I was (sorry my guild does not do WoL). I'm in a 10 man guild and we 3 heal most fights. For normal modes with 3 people, healing has been fairly easy, but I know that will soon change in heroics. I've also recently reforged almost all my spirit I can into mastery. So long story short, my mastery uptime will soon be much more important.

I cast HT on tanks quite a bit when I can, which helps, but as a tree, i'm more raid healer and not tied to a tank). I also try to SM on CD which keeps it up a good chunk. But do you guys have any advice, rules of thumbs, or strats that you use to intentionally keep harmony up? I occasionally find myself throwing out alot of RJs with WG on CD, and forget about mastery. And of course, its these times where it would really be needed.

Also, seperate question, but is anyone in 10 man guilds using the glyph of WG? I found my 6th target was often going to pets, and since it was such a "rotation" change, I have not been using it. But, using it every 10 sec instead of every 8 sec could really help give me extra time to keep harmony up. Never really read about that dynmaic when people were comparing the +/- of the glyph.

Thanks in advance for your help! Gotta love this great tree community here.

i dont use WG glyph on ultraxion especially heroic mode. Other then that i got use to the delay...maybe some other heroic boss too

I only healing touch when either i know a tank is gonna take a big DMG ill just precast it, or use HT on swiftness(gotta be talented). Other then that i barely use HT. You shouldnt focus so hard on harmony, cause regrowth/nourish gives u the buff which you should be casting it anyways, if u got t13 4pc rejuve should prob be always up, WG should always on cd unless no dmg is going out...

there is a lot of post in this forum about resto healing even trinket discussion...

[Sevaara]

i dont use WG glyph on ultraxion especially heroic mode. Other then that i got use to the delay...

I only healing touch when either i know a tank is gonna take a big DMG ill just precast it, or use HT on swiftness(gotta be talented). Other then that i barely use HT. You shouldnt focus so hard on harmony, cause regrowth/nourish gives u the buff which you should be casting it anyways, if u got t13 4pc rejuve should prob be always up, WG should always on cd unless no dmg is going out...

there is a lot of post in this forum about resto healing even trinket discussion...

Using the glyph on Ultraxion 10 Heroic would be a HPS increase for sure.

[coolye]

Using the glyph on Ultraxion 10 Heroic would be a HPS increase for sure.

i find it hard to heal during the last min, that extra few seconds i thought made it easier.

like healing the first 4 min is easy w/o the glyph or with the glyph but the last minute man, especially if your group doesnt have the greatest DPS and having to go pass the 5:30 sec mark it gets insane, plus u go tree form and your WG heals almost everyone.

[Thalur]

You should unglyph WG for heroic Morchok. For all other fights, you should use the glyph (yes, this is 10 man).

The best fight for the glyph is heroic Ultraxion, where you get higher HPS and higher HPM using the glyph (especially during the last minute), as it is guaranteed that WG will always hit 6 targets. Personally, I use the glyph on all fights except heroic Morchok.

[Teaz]

I have to ask since its up in this thread about the WG Glyph. Sry Druover for asking in ur thread. I use WG glyph on all fights ( just cleared normal DS) and starting Heroic this week. Why unglyph it on Morchok and what to replace with?
Doing 10 man DS.

[emni]

I have to ask since its up in this thread about the WG Glyph. Sry Druover for asking in ur thread. I use WG glyph on all fights ( just cleared normal DS) and starting Heroic this week. Why unglyph it on Morchok and what to replace with?
Doing 10 man DS.

Because on hc Morchok you split into 2 groups of 5. Why would you want a glyph that increases WG's targets to 6 at the cost of a longer cooldown when there are only 5 people to heal?

[Teaz]

Because on hc Morchok you split into 2 groups of 5. Why would you want a glyph that increases WG's targets to 6 at the cost of a longer cooldown when there are only 5 people to heal?

I read what u are saying and understand it. But thoose 2 secs extra cd I get i can handle.
So I´m sry I cant find ur answer quite good to unglyph it =)

[apostoloss]

i dont understand why its an increase in 25man because the chance is to hit 6 targets while in 10 man you have less chance?

I prefer having the wg up fast than losing extra 2 secs each time... its how we respond to damage so waiting for a cd that we have the option to sort its cooldown does't sound good .

In 30 secs we can use the wg 5 times meaning 25people while with the glyph we use it 3.75 (lets say 4) meaning 24 people (4 wg x 6) so from my simple math we lose 1 person being healed (even more if we take into account the use is not 4 exactly)

Lets say in a 5min fight . With glyph its 37,5 times used x 6 = 225 targets getting healed while with no glyph is 250 (50 times x 5 targets )targets getting healed

As for the extra 2 secs you can handle dont forget that after stomp , range has to be at crystal to absorve damage so you need to heal very fast ...so 2 secs less is a valuable cd especially if you are in morchok side and have multiple crystals that you need to take stomp crystal stomp crystal (2 crystals spawning one after the other ). You will probably use healin def cds but having wg up can save the day.

Also we are not bad to assist in mt tank healing-- rejuv,3 lb and nourish to keep harmony up are decent buy time for a paladin to land a divine light to tank (which is a slow cast).

I would't use healing touch since it costs alot and provides weak direct healing (only in clearcasting and with nature swiftness when tank is going down fast). Also dont spam wg if your group are above 90% hp better refresh mastery and lifebloom in tank with a weak nourish and save mana or spam rejuvs in all if major damage is incoming (you always have the chance to timeslip with tier bonus)

[Teaz]

i dont understand why its an increase in 25man because the chance is to hit 6 targets while in 10 man you have less chance?

I prefer having the wg up fast than losing extra 2 secs each time... its how we respond to damage so waiting for a cd that we have the option to sort its cooldown does't sound good .

In 30 secs we can use the wg 5 times meaning 25people while with the glyph we use it 3.75 (lets say 4) meaning 24 people (4 wg x 6) so from my simple math we lose 1 person being healed (even more if we take into account the use is not 4 exactly)

Lets say in a 5min fight . With glyph its 37,5 times used x 6 = 225 targets getting healed while with no glyph is 250 (50 times x 5 targets )targets getting healed

As for the extra 2 secs you can handle dont forget that after stomp , range has to be at crystal to absorve damage so you need to heal very fast ...so 2 secs less is a valuable cd especially if you are in morchok side and have multiple crystals that you need to take stomp crystal stomp crystal (2 crystals spawning one after the other ). You will probably use healin def cds but having wg up can save the day.

Also we are not bad to assist in mt tank healing-- rejuv,3 lb and nourish to keep harmony up are decent buy time for a paladin to land a divine light to tank (which is a slow cast).

I would't use healing touch since it costs alot and provides weak direct healing (only in clearcasting and with nature swiftness when tank is going down fast). Also dont spam wg if your group are above 90% hp better refresh mastery and lifebloom in tank with a weak nourish and save mana or spam rejuvs in all if major damage is incoming (you always have the chance to timeslip with tier bonus)

Sounds good and thx for the great explaining. Now it makes more sense What do u replace the WG glyph with?

[Torty]

i dont understand why its an increase in 25man because the chance is to hit 6 targets while in 10 man you have less chance?

In 25m you are able to hit 6 people with your WG all the time (the only exception might be Warmaster phase 1, but healing there is more than trivial and phase 2 is more important). Simple math:
1. Without glyph in 40 seconds you are able to hit your WG button 5 times, landing your hot on 25 people.
2. With glyph in 40 seconds you are able to hit your WG button 4 times, landing your hot on 24 people + rejuv from that free GCD. It ends up doing more healing and costing you less mana plus slightly less time since rejuv GCD is 1sec.
It's a clear throughput increase in any encounter: Morchok, Zonoz, Yorsahj non-purple phase (can't use either glyphed or unglyphed WG on purple anyway), Hagara, Ultraxion, Warmaster phase2, Spine and Madness.
WG glyph is a no-brainer in 25m. It should always be glyphed.

As for WG glyph in 10m, you would probably want to unglyph it for Morchok (obvious) and Zon'ozz (makes normal phase healing a lot easier and gives you more focused and relatively cheap healing on the group you are healing in black phase). I would say on other encounters it should be glyphed, because on the most intensive healing periods you can reliably hit 6 people.

@OP. At intensive healing periods you can afford keeping up Harmony with Regrowth on your Lifebloom target even if you don't have clearcasting. That way you will be able to keep the mana regen (in case you are rocking t12 like me) and not lose much hps. Letting Harmony fall off will result in less hps. Try to time these Regrowths so that they hit when a) lifebloom is nearly falling off b) your swiftmend cd is <10. That way you will avoid unnecessary Regrowths while ensuring both Lifebloom and Harmony uptime.

[apostoloss]

i have seen the math you said torty in elitist jerks but i still dont understand the logic of the extra rejuv... (in terms of the 2 sec gap period)

plus you are wrong without the glyph you hit wg 6,6 (value closer to 7 wg) hitting 33,3 (lets round it up in 33 targets) while with the glyph you hit wg 5 times meaning 30 people
(in the 40 sec period you mentioned)

also isnt harder to calculate the healing difference since it depends on people spec in genesis , blessing of grove etc.. that increase or decrease healing from rejuvs ? so i would't call it a non-brainer...:)

---------- Post added 2012-02-07 at 06:24 PM ----------

Sounds good and thx for the great explaining. Now it makes more sense What do u replace the WG glyph with?

innervate, barkskin, fairie fight

not very useful but fairie can help raid if no other druid is present, and barkskin is minimize the already short chance to get hit crit (i know the possibility is small). You probably will never hit innervate on another ...but just in case ..its better to have a glyph than non in the book.

[Torty]

i have seen the math you said torty in elitist jerks but i still dont understand the logic of the extra rejuv... (in terms of the 2 sec gap period)

plus you are wrong without the glyph you hit wg 6,6 (value closer to 7 wg) hitting 33,3 (lets round it up in 33 targets) while with the glyph you hit wg 5 times meaning 30 people
(in the 40 sec period you mentioned)

also isnt harder to calculate the healing difference since it depends on people spec in genesis , blessing of grove etc.. that increase or decrease healing from rejuvs ? so i would't call it a non-brainer...:)

40 seconds is 5 wild growths. 8 second cd is 8 second cd. To hit Wild Growth 6.6 times you need 50 seconds. Check with calculator next time.

You have one free global every 40 seconds assuming you hit WG on cd. That free global can be used to put a Rejuv on someone. First of all, Rejuv provides more healing than one person getting Wild Growth. Second, it costs less mana. Third, it takes less time to cast (slightly). It is a no-brainer.

It's not harder to calculate. I believe both Genesis and BotG are rubbish talents for progress raiding. I have not yet seen anyone doing proper numbers in 25m with Genesis instead Furor, and I prefer taking minor damage reduction over useless BotG or even take Living Seed, if you are that much of hps whore. There was only one encounter that required intense healing without any pauses or such and no gimmicks: Spine. I've monitored all the results there closely. All the druids having top20 by the time nerf hit had Furor, most of them had Spirit reforge.
http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...oration_Druid/
While other encounters are mostly meter padding (by now at least), this one remains sort of Al'Akir/Beth or previous contents in terms of you can go and check how well your healing technics work. Obviously comparing to other raids, strategies and setups is a bit stupid, but over 15-20% difference with the same amount of healers might give you a warning that you are doing something wrong.

Innervate is a useless glyph. You should never innervate others. Barkskin is useless in PvE since you are never melee hit. Faerie Fire was only useful on Beth because you could put one stack on pull (and even that could've done from stealth). The only choice you have atm is Healing Touch glyph with NS talented or no glyph at all.

---------- Post added 2012-02-08 at 03:34 AM ----------

Thinking over it again, I've done it with time stamps. The first number is time in seconds, after that we have the count of Wild Growths cast with Glyph (G) or no Glyph (N) in brackets.

0: 1(N) 1(G)
8: 2(N)
10: 2(G)
16: 3(N)
20: 3(G)
24: 4(N)
30: 4(G)
32: 5(N)
40: 6(N) 5(G)

You can actually cast 6 WG without one and 5 with one. Totally forgot that. It makes glyph more of a no-brainer for 25m. 6x5 = 5x6 = 30 with one less GCD and mana spent if you have a glyph.

[tangedyn]

You lose ~3% healing from Wild Growth if you glyph it, but you spend 25% less mana and 25% less cast time, so it is easily made up for by giving you more time to cast more heals.

Check my spreadsheet - you can see that using GoWG is a nett gain for both sustainable and burst models. Total healing done by WG is reduced, but more than made up for elsewhere.

[apostoloss]

non glyph is 6sec cd and with glyph is 8 sec cd so in 40 secs its 6,6 wgs without and 5 with the glyph.. so in terms of this i am right .

I will go with tangedyn on this one i think what he said is more accurate but how do you get the 25% less casting time if you have it glyphed?

as for the glyphs he asked what else to use on his free glyph if he does't use the glyph of wg so i told him the options ...its better to glyph something than nothing. Also i dont think fairie fight is awful as you say especially in 10man (when you might not have someone else to apply the 12% armor reduction).

Barkskin is not that bad as you say ..what do you mean never get melee hit ? even first boss is doing physical damage and he can crit ; well i suppose you mean we will never soak the damage like that in order to get crit hit but you never know (i did go on bear form with barkskin glyph,one rejuv and frenzy regeneration and survived it with at least 30% hp if i remember correctly in pug few days ago, so you never know ...).

Also sometimes people might innervate their targets (it happend to me once) by accident so its better to have something back...:P

[Teaz]

non glyph is 6sec cd and with glyph is 8 sec cd so in 40 secs its 6,6 wgs without and 5 with the glyph.. so in terms of this i am right .

I will go with tangedyn on this one i think what he said is more accurate but how do you get the 25% less casting time if you have it glyphed?

as for the glyphs he asked what else to use on his free glyph if he does't use the glyph of wg so i told him the options ...its better to glyph something than nothing. Also i dont think fairie fight is awful as you say especially in 10man (when you might not have someone else to apply the 12% armor reduction).

Barkskin is not that bad as you say ..what do you mean never get melee hit ? even first boss is doing physical damage and he can crit ; well i suppose you mean we will never soak the damage like that in order to get crit hit but you never know (i did go on bear form with barkskin glyph,one rejuv and frenzy regeneration and survived it with at least 30% hp if i remember correctly in pug few days ago, so you never know ...).

Also sometimes people might innervate their targets (it happend to me once) by accident so its better to have something back...:P

Just as a sidenote here. I have roughly 145k mana buffed, and i almost never go oom. Got like 2300 mana regen and cant get it lower atm. We are using Resto druid (me) holy pala and disc priest. The pala gets oom sometimes even with hes CD so I have to innervate him He´s probebly doing something wrong yes. While i almost never go oom. If i do and have innervate i use it when power torrent is active and bam alot of mana again.

Another question, we are gonna start HC tomorrow thursday and we are gonna 3 heal it first to get the feeling and tacs. What would u suggest us to heal on Morchok? Holy pala on the second one that spawns and me and Disc on Morch?
Thx.

[Thalur]

non glyph is 6sec cd and with glyph is 8 sec cd so in 40 secs its 6,6 wgs without and 5 with the glyph.. so in terms of this i am right .

I will go with tangedyn on this one i think what he said is more accurate but how do you get the 25% less casting time if you have it glyphed?

This has been explained in this thread before but I will try to word it differently so you can understand it. (And Torty's assumptions were slightly off.)

Over 40s of a fight, theoretically you get 5x WG without the glyph (8s CD) or 4x WG with the glyph (10s CD).
No Glyph: 5x 5 players hit = 25 for 5 GCDs ("casting time").
Glyph: 4x 6 players hit = 24 for 4 GCDs ("casting time").
That's 4% less WG healing for 20% less WG cast time with the glyph. In this reduced cast time (here: 1 GCD) you can fit abou 1.3 Rejuv (reduced Rj GCD). This adds a lot more healing than the 4% you lost through the glyph, and costs a lot less mana than the extra WG cast you have to do without the glyph.

So, using the glyph increases HPS and decreases mana cost. The glyph is a must whenever WG can hit 6 targets.

---------- Post added 2012-02-08 at 10:46 AM ----------

Just as a sidenote here. I have roughly 145k mana buffed, and i almost never go oom. Got like 2300 mana regen and cant get it lower atm. We are using Resto druid (me) holy pala and disc priest. The pala gets oom sometimes even with hes CD so I have to innervate him He´s probebly doing something wrong yes. While i almost never go oom. If i do and have innervate i use it when power torrent is active and bam alot of mana again.

Are you talking about normal mode or heroic here? In normal modes with 3 healers, mana is never an issue, since all fights can be two-healed. Heroic is a totally different story (except Morchok), so you might want to wait until you get there.

Another question, we are gonna start HC tomorrow thursday and we are gonna 3 heal it first to get the feeling and tacs. What would u suggest us to heal on Morchok? Holy pala on the second one that spawns and me and Disc on Morch?
Thx.

The easiest way is to 4-heal it. There is no enrage timer, and the boss is a piece of cake like that. Just have your shadow/enhancer/ele/retri use 2nd spec heal and you'll get it down easily.
With three healers, you want to single-heal the "copy" boss (less damage incoming), and you want to use the better soaker on that side too (Rogue). Let the best healer single-heal (independent from the class).

[Torty]

non glyph is 6sec cd and with glyph is 8 sec cd so in 40 secs its 6,6 wgs without and 5 with the glyph.. so in terms of this i am right

Are you even playing this game? Non-glyph cd is 8 seconds, glyph is 10 seconds.

as for the glyphs he asked what else to use on his free glyph if he does't use the glyph of wg so i told him the options ...its better to glyph something than nothing. Also i dont think fairie fight is awful as you say especially in 10man (when you might not have someone else to apply the 12% armor reduction).

Faerie Fire glyph doesnt increase the speed at which you apply FF. Having no range issues whatsoever on any of DS bosses makes the glyph utter trash.

Barkskin is not that bad as you say ..what do you mean never get melee hit ? even first boss is doing physical damage and he can crit ; well i suppose you mean we will never soak the damage like that in order to get crit hit but you never know (i did go on bear form with barkskin glyph,one rejuv and frenzy regeneration and survived it with at least 30% hp if i remember correctly in pug few days ago, so you never know ...).

You don't get melee hit. That's what I meant. Is there any other meaning to these words? Stomp CAN'T crit. You are now imagining things, don't know how boss abilities work at all and shouldn't give advices in that case.

Also sometimes people might innervate their targets (it happend to me once) by accident so its better to have something back...:P

Make a macro then? It takes 10 seconds tops. That's some shit excuse to use a completely useless glyph.

[emni]

I read what u are saying and understand it. But thoose 2 secs extra cd I get i can handle.
So I´m sry I cant find ur answer quite good to unglyph it =)

This isn't about what you can handle, this is about what is optimal.

I can also handle healing hc Morchok in my balance gear, doesn't mean I wouldn't perform better with my resto gear and no WG glyph.