How can there be no trinity?

[Fencers]

So then it will be total chaos. And will take an unprecedented amount of communication just for the most simple encounters.

This puts a damper on things for me. I hate trying to talk and play at the same time...

Do you think there would be more communication in GW2 than in Warcraft or TOR?

When I am in a raid in WoW or TOR, we are communicating constantly to convey important information.

"My blablah CD is down. Someone give me a hand!" <-- SWTOR
"My blahblah CD is down. Someone give me a hand!" <-- Guild Wars 2

What's the difference in communication level?

Also, other successful MMOs have class systems without a trinity. They worked fine. It's not a new thing, seriously.

[Squirrelbanes]

So then it will be total chaos. And will take an unprecedented amount of communication just for the most simple encounters.

This puts a damper on things for me. I hate trying to talk and play at the same time...

Okay, reducing all the proceeding and very relevant information that answers what you say about chaos to "STUFF." If you want to ignore what people are saying, fine.
You will react to what the mobs are doing. Why should you have to communicate about it more than you're used to? Use your support skills and survivability. I'm sure people can look and play at the same time...
Gonna bow out at this point I think.

[Ogretron]

No one is going to just sit back and heal. Just like no one is just going to make sure the big guy hits him. There might be cases where a "tank" would be best, but everything is doable without one.

The holy trinity was cool, but it's time to shelf it. We got along perfectly fine in games like Diablo 2 without someone sitting back and healing.

[Tithonus]

So then it will be total chaos. And will take an unprecedented amount of communication just for the most simple encounters.

This puts a damper on things for me. I hate trying to talk and play at the same time...

I think you are over exaggerating communication thats necessary. Normal DEs will most likely not require any verbal communication, but the more difficult encounters will as they should require a bit more strategy. Also the amount of communication required will depend on each players knowledge/experience of their profession, other professions, and the encounter in question. Experienced players don't need someone else calling out an obvious/critical mechanic in a fight as they will recognize it in game and react accordingly. Same goes for seeing X player trying to evade an enemy player in PvP, you don't need X player to tell you they are evading you can determine that by the actions taken.

[nalle]

So after you use your defensive cooldowns, the boss just kills you because the group can not control the aggro of the boss whatsoever?

Did you even read the whole post?..

If you get the aggro of the boss you can use either a cooldown, dodge the attack(s), take a hit and then heal up or use control abilities to handle the situation (like I described in my previous post which you seemed to completely miss the point of...).

And that's even if you have the aggro of the boss after your cooldown/dodge/control ability has ended (which you most likely will not).

You're entire point you keep circling back to is that you for some reason think anyone will have to tank the boss for an extended period of time where a cooldown, 2-3 dodges and a hell of a lot of control abilities from all of the 5 players in the group wont be enough and that the boss will kill you in 1 hit if you don't use any of these things (can probably take 2-3 hits without any sort of help).

All your concerns, questions and miss beliefs has already been answered multiple times, if you still don't get it then I don't think that you will until you try the game for yourself when it has been released.

[Zeek Daniels]

So then it will be total chaos. And will take an unprecedented amount of communication just for the most simple encounters.

This puts a damper on things for me. I hate trying to talk and play at the same time...

Your right it will be chaos which means it will require more skill to handle each situation that presents its self, No longer the tank and spank mechanic over and over again. As for the amount of communication Anet handles this beautifully. You dont need to type in chat, you dont need a Vent type system ingame. What Anet does is gives the players great visuals around them to let them know what other players are doing and then chain off of them. If a elementalist throws down an ice patch and a warrior stomps on it, it will give those in range ice armor for a while. Its things like this that dont require speaking or typing and can be done just by knowing different class combos.

[Agent Mercury]

It saddens me to see people over-zealous in protection of GW2's "lack" of a Holy Trinity.

Simply put it is still there just more flexible. The trinity can now be rotated mid combat for whatever situation that may arrive. The video says it itself that there are going to be set-ups better for healing, better for damage, better for taking a beating, and support roles. Each role can be filled by plenty of people without needing to re-spec or re-gear and THAT is the breakthrough. FLEXIBILITY.

Please stop saying people are over-thinking it when you without the proper hands on could also be said to be under-thinking it.

[Chronius]

I'm curious to see how mobs are going to react when a guardian traps them and himself within one of his barriers.

[Deleted]

I'm curious to see how mobs are going to react when a guardian traps them and himself within one of his barriers.

Ive seen that happen in videos

[Chronius]

Ive seen that happen in videos

And what happened? Did it shift target or ?

[Borzo]

It saddens me to see people over-zealous in protection of GW2's "lack" of a Holy Trinity.

Simply put it is still there just more flexible. The trinity can now be rotated mid combat for whatever situation that may arrive. The video says it itself that there are going to be set-ups better for healing, better for damage, better for taking a beating, and support roles. Each role can be filled by plenty of people without needing to re-spec or re-gear and THAT is the breakthrough. FLEXIBILITY.

Please stop saying people are over-thinking it when you without the proper hands on could also be said to be under-thinking it.

All games of this type have:

1) players doing damage to bad guys
2) players taking damage from bad guys
3) players recovering from damage

Just because a game has those 3 things doesn't mean it has the "holy trinity". The "holy trinity" means something specific... and that something is missing from GW2.

No one is saying that there is no damage in GW2, that would be silly... of course damage will happen. How else would anything/anyone die? Everyone knows there will be damage. But for some completely inexplicable reason, some insist that because damage is happening, that this game has the "holy trinity" just like all the other games. Well WTF is the definition of "holy trinity" then? I think people are tossing that term around without even knowing what it means - and refusing to give a definition either!

But if your definition of "holy trinity" just means "damage happens, deal with it", then stop using the term... because 90% of people have a much more specific definition of it.

[Deleted]

And what happened? Did it shift target or ?

No, why would it, it came after the guardian, i would guess becouse the guardian was the nearest player at that time. now remember that is not the only thing that determents what player the mob will go after.

[Agent Mercury]

All games of this type have:

1) players doing damage to bad guys
2) players taking damage from bad guys
3) players recovering from damage

Just because a game has those 3 things doesn't mean it has the "holy trinity". The "holy trinity" means something specific... and that something is missing from GW2.

No one is saying that there is no damage in GW2, that would be silly... of course damage will happen. How else would anything/anyone die? Everyone knows there will be damage. But for some completely inexplicable reason, some insist that because damage is happening, that this game has the "holy trinity" just like all the other games. Well WTF is the definition of "holy trinity" then? I think people are tossing that term around without even knowing what it means - and refusing to give a definition either!

But if your definition of "holy trinity" just means "damage happens, deal with it", then stop using the term... because 90% of people have a much more specific definition of it.

No need to be ignorant. If you want to quote me do it correctly. The term "better" was used to show you exactly what happens in any MMO where there is a level of competition. There will be load-outs used over others for different roles. The Holy Trinity is the roles working in tandem with each other. Using each other to be successful. Till you can fully remove pieces you cannot break the whole.

Till you can show me where no fight will ever need someone using a load-out that specializes and excels at healing, or soaking a bit of damage it is all word of mouth. I don't disbelieve they can do it but people are arguing the wrong points.

(I have seen Diablo referenced by someone and that is a whole different story. Health Globes/Potions. No inherent need for someone excelling at healing.)

[Hockeyhacker]

so basically all the classes are some kind of hybrid between tank dps and heal and they can swap to each role incombat to their liking...

doesnt this mean that gw2 is still using the trinity? giving every class the ability to be any of the 3 doesnt mean the trinity has been removed.. at least in my book

You are missing the point entirely, say you go into a dungeon with 5 people, all 5 of those people will be taking hits, all 5 of those people will be casting some form of heals, and all 5 of those people will have to use situational awareness to avoid taking to much incoming damage, and if someone dies as someone else takes the main hits anyone else can help rez the person who got killed who also can try rezing them self by killing something while on the floor bleeding to death in the downed state.

The point is all 5 people do every "role" in all fights, and is not "well I am going tank spec, you go heal spec", every person is doing all 3 roles to prevent focus fire upon 1 person, to keep everyone up, and to revive those who get killed and may not have something they can kill within the down state time and to mitigate as much damage as they can between dodging and casting medium CD mitigation spells.

[Chronius]

No, why would it, it came after the guardian, i would guess becouse the guardian was the nearest player at that time. now remember that is not the only thing that determents what player the mob will go after.

Scenario: Elementalist grabs agroe from a melee mob that was initially in melee range of the guardian. The guardian sees this and quickly drops one of his barriers.
The barrier is placed so that the melee mob has no pathing to the elementalist.
What happens?

[Borzo]

No need to be ignorant. If you want to quote me do it correctly. The term "better" was used to show you exactly what happens in any MMO where there is a level of competition. There will be load-outs used over others for different roles. The Holy Trinity is the roles working in tandem with each other. Using each other to be successful. Till you can fully remove pieces you cannot break the whole.

Till you can show me where no fight will ever need someone using a load-out that specializes and excels at healing, or soaking a bit of damage it is all word of mouth. I don't disbelieve they can do it but people are arguing the wrong points.

(I have seen Diablo referenced by someone and that is a whole different story. Health Globes/Potions. No inherent need for someone excelling at healing.)

I just finished a game of BF3. This is a serious question: Does Battlefield 3 have the holy trinity? You take damage, you deal damage, and you heal damage. So it's just a gimmicky version of the "holy trinity", right? (Really, this is a serious question, and I wanna know your opinion on it!)

My take on the issue: The holy trinity is NOT just "roles working in tandem with each other". The holy trinity is three specific roles, working in a very specific way, together. Specialized loadouts do not make the holy trinity any more than (IMO) Battlefield 3's class system makes a "holy trinity".

Different people will have different playstyles. They will use their differing playstyles together and participate in "teamwork". That doesn't make "the holy trinity".

[Deleted]

I feel we are being trolled, anyone that have read the entire thread would have gotten this shit by now with all the great explanations on how it will work.

[Borzo]

Scenario: Elementalist grabs agroe from a melee mob that was initially in melee range of the guardian. The guardian sees this and quickly drops one of his barriers.
The barrier is placed so that the melee mob has no pathing to the elementalist.
What happens?

It obviously attacks the guardian (that is inside the bubble with the evil baddie)... what else would you expect it to do?

[Agent Mercury]

You are missing the point entirely, say you go into a dungeon with 5 people, all 5 of those people will be taking hits, all 5 of those people will be casting some form of heals, and all 5 of those people will have to use situational awareness to avoid taking to much incoming damage, and if someone dies as someone else takes the main hits anyone else can help rez the person who got killed who also can try rezing them self by killing something while on the floor bleeding to death in the downed state.

The point is all 5 people do every "role" in all fights, and is not "well I am going tank spec, you go heal spec", every person is doing all 3 roles to prevent focus fire upon 1 person, to keep everyone up, and to revive those who get killed and may not have something they can kill within the down state time and to mitigate as much damage as they can between dodging and casting medium CD mitigation spells.

And you are missing his point. I am about to illustrate it for you. The holy trinity exists but has been "unlocked". In most MMOs picture it as the Tri-Force, the pieces fit together and must stay that way. By unlocking it effectively each piece can rotate it's position as needed, one taking the brunt while another does a little healing and one is behind dealing the majority of damage. !Cool-downs are ready so they shift! Still holding up parts of the trinity each with new parts.

[Deleted]

Scenario: Elementalist grabs agroe from a melee mob that was initially in melee range of the guardian. The guardian sees this and quickly drops one of his barriers.
The barrier is placed so that the melee mob has no pathing to the elementalist.
What happens?

This whole cenario is invalid, there is no aggro table. But if a mob cant get to a player becouse something/ a spell is in the way, well then my guess is it change into going after someone else