How can there be no trinity?

[Jaerin]

poor OP. you have no imagination. and yet you are over thinking this. that or you are trying to justify the trinity system because that's all you have ever known. when the game comes out, try it. if you dont like, dont play. unfortunately, it sounds like you've already made up your mind.

No I haven't, I'm trying to spark discussion on how this system will ACTUALLY work because right now I see a lot of fanbois running around yelling that there is no trinity when there is, its just not as define elsewhere.

Also I'm look at the system as a whole and what will become of it when the community gets it. We all would like to think that people don't reduce things to the simplest terms possible, but they do. The simpler the system is, he easier it is to understand.

There is threat in GW2 whether you think so or not. I'd truly hate to see what combat would be like if everything hit random targets all the time. Other than that a simple threat system does not only need to just be dmg in vs dmg out. WoW isn't that simple, it seems simple because all is revealed now. Once upon a time people didn't have a clue that there was a difference in threat gain between melee and ranged. There didn't know how healing threat worked...it was all a mystery. Until someone went out and hit a mob once, and had someone else hit it until it changed targets. They did that over and over for all the abilities until they had a rough idea of threat values for everything in the game. Just about that time Blizzard decided to put in their own threat meters.

So it doesn't matter if its contribution points, damage done, damage taken, healing done, whatever...its going to make a priority list of targets and therefore you have threat/aggro.

No where have a trolled or said anything other than what I believe. Yeah its depressing to think that people would kick others simply because they can, but it happens ALL THE TIME. People rate people on arbitrary measurements all the time, not because its a design choice, but because people will always try to pick the system apart into simpler and simpler rules until they can fully understand it. Then they will post it on a website and the roles of the classes will have been decided.

I think the biggest problem that WoW has right now is it leaves NOTHING to the imagination. Everything is in clear black and white terms...so you already know who's going to be the best. Its just a matter of putting it all together and making it work. There isn't any figuring things out anymore...

Heck unless you are on the cutting edge of raiding solutions and guides are out before the content even is...

---------- Post added 2012-02-06 at 05:19 PM ----------

So what ... you will spend 2 hours looking for the perfect comp instead of picking 4 ppl, discussing the strategy and playing the game ? To each his own I guess. I will take 4 other wars ... 3 will go support, 2 will go tanky, everyone will go dps and will will down the content having fun. After you are done with assembling the most impressive group comp we will be done with the dungeon.

What if no one wants to play the tanky role because their best gear is their DPS stuff or their skills are setup for DPS stuff. You can have duel spec right now in WoW, that doesn't change the fact that people still make people go back and respec in-between fights. So instead of changing their own spec they change out some skills. They still aren't necessarily playing the way the want to play.

[nalle]

That's EXACTLY my point...So instead of you having duel spec, I see it as you come into a group and they say we need 3 interrupts, 4 heals, 3 CC's, ect...

From order of best to worst - unless all skills are equal there will be some that are better than others
So best interrupt classes are AA, BB, CC, DD, EE
So best heal classes are BB, DD, EE, AA, CC
So best soaker classes are DD, AA, EE, CC, BB

As a completely hypothetical. So instead of having DD always be the tank and BB always be the healer they have hybrids. Ultimately you will be put into a role one way or another. If the tank or dmg soakers are dying you will either find a better tank or a different person to fill that role. Again they are responsible for doing their job. If someone is always dying someone is going to tell them to change something.

People will be told what they need to bring to a group one way or another. Maybe you be told all 6 or 8 abilities to bring, but I bet there will be a few. I mean groups used to stack druids for innervate and that alone. Not because druids were the best dps or heals, but because they had a mana regen ability. How is this not going to be the case for every role in GW2?

Call it tanking, healing, dps...or control, survival, and destruction...they are the same thing in the end...

I'm sorry man, but you clearly (still) have no idea how it will work in GW2.

I get that it can be hard to grasp the concept of no trinity system, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

You really have to read up on this, read the comments in here and just try to let go of your thoughts and keep an open mind.

[Cassandrea]

So what ... you will spend 2 hours looking for the perfect comp instead of picking 4 ppl, discussing the strategy and playing the game ? To each his own I guess. I will take 4 other wars ... 3 will go support, 2 will go tanky, everyone will go dps and will will down the content having fun. After you are done with assembling the most impressive group comp we will be done with the dungeon.

hahahahah so true. I will take my Guardian Faustus into that dungeon, and I will take whomever brave souls will come... And if we fail at any troubles that lay ahead, We will still push on, learn, and win, because that is the point of the game - everyone can succeed when you WORK at it, not if you have the right composition. Yeah maybe 2 rangers, a warrior, an elemetalist, and a mesmer might be the IDEAL composition, but if I take in 5 rangers, I will probably finish it way before you since you are still looking for everyone else - and it would be more fun

[StationaryHawk]

There is no role where you take the damage for everyone else. There is no role where you stand around healing the rest of the party. That's all there really is to it.

If you can't comprehend that/won't listen to reason, you're welcome to continue believing so until launch.

[Deleted]

hahahahah so true. I will take my Guardian Faustus into that dungeon, and I will take whomever brave souls will come... And if we fail at any troubles that lay ahead, We will still push on, learn, and win, because that is the point of the game - everyone can succeed when you WORK at it, not if you have the right composition. Yeah maybe 2 rangers, a warrior, an elemetalist, and a mesmer might be the IDEAL composition, but if I take in 5 rangers, I will probably finish it way before you since you are still looking for everyone else - and it would be more fun

This it will be so much fun to try out everything, in new diffrent ways

---------- Post added 2012-02-07 at 12:25 AM ----------

There is no role where you take the damage for everyone else. There is no role where you stand around healing the rest of the party. That's all there really is to it.

If you can't comprehend that/won't listen to reason, you're welcome to continue believing so until launch.

This one speaks the truth

[Repefe]

What if no one wants to play the tanky role because their best gear is their DPS stuff or their skills are setup for DPS stuff. You can have duel spec right now in WoW, that doesn't change the fact that people still make people go back and respec in-between fights. So instead of changing their own spec they change out some skills. They still aren't necessarily playing the way the want to play.

Nobody wants to tank so everyone will tank. When you solo quest you tank everything and nobody is crying about that ... if you are low on health you heal yourself ... have you seen anyone crying that when they quest they have to heal themself from time to time ? Granted if you get 5 ppl who all want to just press the dps buttons ... your group will fail. That's what you get when ppl don't play as a group when doing group content.

[Cassandrea]

This it will be so much fun to try out everything, in new diffrent ways

---------- Post added 2012-02-07 at 12:25 AM ----------



This one speaks the truth

Just for the hell of it... I am gonna yell each time I banish someone with my 2h hammmer "YOU SHALL NOT PASS...."

[Deleted]

Just for the hell of it... I am gonna yell each time I banish someone with my 2h hammmer "YOU SHALL NOT PASS...."

haha that would be awesome to be on vent for

[Randomerror]

From what I see it will be highly disorganized. What if everyone in your group decides to heal or tank and not dps? or vice versa? Just seems like it will take a lot of organization to make your group play optimally.

[Edge-]

From what I see it will be highly disorganized. What if everyone in your group decides to heal or tank and not dps? or vice versa? Just seems like it will take a lot of organization to make your group play optimally.

There is no tanking role. There is no healing role. Period. There are heals in the game, there are ways to temporarily mitigate damage, but you can't do either for more than a very short period of time. Even if you use abilities to temporarily heal or mitigate damage, the overwhelming majority of your remaining abilities will be dedicated to doing damage in one form or another. Optimal group play is all about communication and individual skill, as it should be.

[Deleted]

From what I see it will be highly disorganized. What if everyone in your group decides to heal or tank and not dps? or vice versa? Just seems like it will take a lot of organization to make your group play optimally.

1 player cant do the same the entire lets say dungeon run, one player cant ever take all the dmg, everyone needs to do little of everything

---------- Post added 2012-02-07 at 12:33 AM ----------

There is no tanking role. There is no healing role. Period. There are heals in the game, there are ways to temporarily mitigate damage, but you can't do either for more than a very short period of time. Even if you use abilities to temporarily heal or mitigate damage, the overwhelming majority of your remaining abilities will be dedicated to doing damage in one form or another. Optimal group play is all about communication and individual skill, as it should be.

You said it alot better then i did

[nalle]

From what I see it will be highly disorganized. What if everyone in your group decides to heal or tank and not dps? or vice versa? Just seems like it will take a lot of organization to make your group play optimally.

It doesn't work like that...

Everyone will have their own healing spell (think that you can choose between 2-3 but only use one of them), everyone will have control abilities (some more then others), everyone will have some form of damage mitigation for either themselves or for the whole group.

No one will be able to "tank" a boss for the full duration of a fight, no one will be able to heal a party/raid for the full duration of a fight.


Healing, damage, tanking, controlling and buffing are shared tasks between everyone.

It's just that simple.

[Cassandrea]

ok lets have a bit of a test... for the rest of this discussion... lets not use terms such as tanks or healers or dps...

Use support...

Will my teamates support me as I try to flank around and set up a new firing position

will I support my ranger as she goes in and poisons everything in range, sets down a fire pit, and then the warrior uses it to fire flame bullets

SUPPORT SUPPORT SUPPORT SUPPORT

NO ONE HEALS, NO ONE TANKS, WE ALL SUPPORT... Communism at its best

McCarthy eat your heart out

[Balfire]

No one will be able to just heal, no one will be able to take more than a couple hits. Therefore there is NO TANK and NO HEALER.
I don't see how you are not processing this.

[Deleted]

NO ONE HEALS, NO ONE TANKS, WE ALL SUPPORT... Communism at its best

McCarthy eat your heart out

Mwhahaha

[Deleted]

Trinity is a system based on some classes being able to take damage significantly better than other classes which means that there must be healers/tanks. Anyone not tank is designed to die quickly and this is the reason there is threat in the game. In GW2, this is not the case. Each class is supposed to be self sufficient. Everyone is a tank, everyone a healer, everyone a dps to the point where you can do all, though even if you can do all it's not like you won't be better at say healing or dpsing. It's just that you don't need to rely on others as much

It is very much a question of design choice. Trinity is not something needed at all, and I don't understand how you can't see beyond it.
In the near future, Mmos will be much less focused on the trinity system, so better get used to ditching that old fashioned system. The new generation of MMOS are gonna be more action, less dice rolls and stiff mechanics

[georgevonfranken]

Since OP doesn't want to listen all I have to say is have fun trying to heal or tank and being useless and kicked out of dungeon groups

[tibben]

Okay, let's say it this way then. If it turns out that theorycrafting shows that one dungeon is easiest to beat with 5 mesmers, tell me which one of those cloth wearing bad asses is the tank, which one is the healer, and which 3 are the dps? When you can explain that to me then I'll agree that the holy trinity is alive and well. But until you can tell me how 5 cloth wearers contain a tank and a healer when none of them have a way to generate aggro and none of them have a targeted heal or even a spammable aoe heal, I'm going to continue believing that the holy trinity does not exist in GW2.

Every player has to be prepared to soak/deflect damage, support their fellow adventurers, and dish out damage. All of them. There is no designated tank or healer or damage dealer. They all need to be ready to do whatever the situation dictates. If you can't dodge attacks, heal yourself, deflect damage, toss up nice buffs, remove debuffs, and deal damage then you are not playing your profession properly and will only be an anchor weighing down progress in the harder dungeons...no matter which profession you play.

[Fencers]

There is no tanking role. There is no healing role. Period. There are heals in the game, there are ways to temporarily mitigate damage, but you can't do either for more than a very short period of time. Even if you use abilities to temporarily heal or mitigate damage, the overwhelming majority of your remaining abilities will be dedicated to doing damage in one form or another. Optimal group play is all about communication and individual skill, as it should be.

Best post in the thread.

Lots of nonsense being thrown around here. Edge, wins the forum.

[Deleted]

So you are playing Skyrim- you have all the aggro seeing as how it's single player, your doing damage to down the mob, and then you notice your companion NPC is low on health so you toss them a heal. Now would you say your character fitted in one of the Holy Trinity in the WoW model? At most you could say they were "tanky" if you build your character with survivability in mind but they are notthe same as WoW's idea of tanks. Now imagine that with four other players-each able to fulfill either role but not zoned in that role exclusively and switching to the encounter's demands- I believe that is what GW2 is going to play like.Will there bespecs leaning torwards to a certain role? I have no doubt there will be but even at that they still need to be versatile as it's notgoing to like a blood dk charging in and holding aggro until the boss dies.