Currently, we think that Frost mages have too much control in PvP

[fixit]

"Currently, we think that Frost mages have too much control in PvP"
currently....lol where the fuck they been for 9 months

[Primernova]

Frost mages have always had alot of control, something else changed that made them so overpowered. I had my WoTLK era frost mage out the day after the Cata pre-patch and he went from a fun character to a complete and total killing machine with that patch. No other chages to spec, gear or playstyle; I just targeted a player and went through my normal routine but now they died 100% of the time, with zero effort or pressure on me.

The only thing frost really got at that level (80) and before Cata was the perma-pet and it had such a short cooldown it never wasn't up when I needed it so something else in their mechanics changed.

[Oldmilwaukee]

The mastery changed them. Their mastery is pretty damn good.

Edit: And also the fact that they have multiplicative damage because of on of their talent.

[Ipsissimus]

A 1400 rating pleb shaming Al'Akir because he doesn't have dispel party2 bound. C'est la vie.

[Primernova]

The mastery changed them. Their mastery is pretty damn good.

Edit: And also the fact that they have multiplicative damage because of on of their talent.

Did the Cata pre-patch even have mastery activated? I can't remember but it was like a light switch after that patch, straight from balanced to OP.

[fixit]

A 1400 rating pleb shaming Al'Akir because he doesn't have dispel party2 bound. C'est la vie.

Is this star trek speak?

[Ipsissimus]

Primernova:
Patch 4.0.1 had Mastery enabled and it was absurd to the level that I could win duels against rank 1 players while only spamming ice lance with 200 ms latency. Mastery scaling out of hand was foreseen as early as the pre-cata patch.

fixit:
A 1400 rated novice player is shaming the server he's located on, once the primary PvP hub in Europe because he's unable to dispel his Warrior quickly enough to negate the Mage's snares. The problem with Mages in PvP at the moment is their mastery scaling. The excess control was fixed when Shattered Barrier and Improved Cone of Cold were put on the same diminishing returns. "C'est la vie" is in French and means "such is life".

[foxHeart]

Blizz always thinks vague recognition of an obvious problem is worthy of a head pat. Been that way for as long as I can remember.

[Bowserkills7]

But isn't having control the entire point of a Frost Mage? Everything has DM, so I don't really see the issue.

[Trixzy]

Control isn't the issue... Mastery is and that has been discussed loads of times already.
Make casting more rewarding. Scale down mastery and leave control where it is.

[CCloak]

That is exactly what Blizzard said.
Their new MoP concept is, Instead of having both damage and control, you need to chose whether to get damage or control from the talent.

They made Frost Mages powerful when they finally gave them damage in an attempt to fix PVE frost.

[frengo123]

Loosing mana shield as frost is a choice among dmg and control?
By watching at mage new talents i cannot see honestly anything reflecting previous Blizzard statement...
I seea nice low lvl presence of mind instead, extremely usefull to finish off within 1 deep freeze quicker...
a heavy polymorph to stun,
and 1 dot as final (rogues will love it probably)...
an improved counterspell free (At least it could deserve a pvp glyph for the silence built in effect)...

so actually when polymorphed u can suck:
1 stun by talent,
1 deep freeze (stun),
1 silence...
Impressive... Are Devs monkeys?
I wanna really see pvp at lvl 86-89 and how fun it will be without a 40% dmg reduction from resilience...

Forcing a choice among the elemental as permanent or with a limited time duration,
Reducing partially dmg (frost) with elemental up,
change the way cold mastery is working or reduce the "impact" inside a deep freeze...

Maybe it's just me but where is supposed to be the choice among:
1) control
2) dmg
in order to achieve such a thing u should at least reduce dmg while 1 cc is in effect...

[BloodchargedIllidan]

Primernova:
Patch 4.0.1 had Mastery enabled and it was absurd to the level that I could win duels against rank 1 players while only spamming ice lance with 200 ms latency. Mastery scaling out of hand was foreseen as early as the pre-cata patch.

fixit:
A 1400 rated novice player is shaming the server he's located on, once the primary PvP hub in Europe because he's unable to dispel his Warrior quickly enough to negate the Mage's snares. The problem with Mages in PvP at the moment is their mastery scaling. The excess control was fixed when Shattered Barrier and Improved Cone of Cold were put on the same diminishing returns. "C'est la vie" is in French and means "such is life".

I love how Blizzard fails to mention the BS Impact stun not having a DR cause they claim it's "random", which I find amusing as it easily procs 8-10 times over a 2-3 minute fight. Also, about you attacking players...lol@2400 only playing the faceroll RMP comp.

---------- Post added 2012-02-07 at 08:43 AM ----------

That is exactly what Blizzard said.
Their new MoP concept is, Instead of having both damage and control, you need to chose whether to get damage or control from the talent.

They made Frost Mages powerful when they finally gave them damage in an attempt to fix PVE frost.

I find it amusing how they let Frost have the absurd Damage and Control for a whole expansion whereas every other class has been nerfed to the ground within 2-3 weeks.

[Scathbais]

But isn't having control the entire point of a Frost Mage? Everything has DM, so I don't really see the issue.

the issue is that Frost Mages have 4 or 5 different types of DR crowd controls, whereas other specs may have only two.

[DarthThrall]

Easy solution.

- Frostbolt now does 30 percent less damage in battlegrounds and arenas
- Frostbolt now does 30 percent more damage against NPC's.
- Ice Lance now does 30 percent less damage in Battlegrounds and Arenas
- Ice lance does 30 percent more damage against NPC's

Seriously, if they can make Deep Freeze work differently between players and bosses why not other spells aswell.

Also why do people think Frost has loads of CC? What does Frost have that Fire doesn't? The lack of Pet Freeze and Deep Freeze are made up for with the addition of Dragons Breath, Blast Wave and Impact.

Fire can kite any melee class. and had 3 silences available against caster classes. However you can just stand and wait for a combustion against other casters and out dps them without needing to counter their class mechanics.

It is true Frost can kill a dude without ever getting hit, but Fire can almost do the same but you may need to eat some sword hits whilst you let him get up close so you can coc or dragon breath him. The insane AoE dmg in BG's and the OP combustion should more than make up for the lack of deep freeze. Frost is more bursty than fire.... IE frost can cause 100k dmg in 3 seconds every minute or so. But fire can drop the entire army of hordes trying to down our general in WSG... Seriously, sneak behind them, look for the guy in full T13, cross your fingers to get a crit, combustion, impact and ice block and watch on as the entire room drops before you getting hit for 20k a second for 10 seconds.

[Swaggah]

I think they should lessen control but give some dispell protection like in wotlk

[Swizzle]

the issue is that Frost Mages have 4 or 5 different types of DR crowd controls, whereas other specs may have only two.

The point he was making was that other classes have more sources and ways of doing damage, so you just flip the chart. 4-5 ways to control someone and only 4 real sources of damage. Now, take a Shadow Priest (which clearly has less control than a Mage). They have 2-3 forms of control on different DRs (depending on how you look at Silence), but have 6-7 sources of damage. As you add to one side of the chart, you subtract from the other. While our MoP trees don't force us to choose between sources of damage, they are forcing us to choose between control. Do I want the awesome utility of Ice Ward or do I take RoF...or maybe I take Frostjaw? Do I take the dispel protection of Living Bomb or do I roll with an additional snare from Frost Bomb?

All in all, most of the problems people have with PvP seem to be getting addressed in MoP, so at least wait for the game to move to beta before judging it harshly.

[Ipsissimus]

I love how Blizzard fails to mention the BS Impact stun not having a DR cause they claim it's "random", which I find amusing as it easily procs 8-10 times over a 2-3 minute fight. Also, about you attacking players...lol@2400 only playing the faceroll RMP comp.

---------- Post added 2012-02-07 at 08:43 AM ----------



I find it amusing how they let Frost have the absurd Damage and Control for a whole expansion whereas every other class has been nerfed to the ground within 2-3 weeks.

1. Impact is broken and should've been further down in the fire tree, unobtainable by Frost. Just like it was in WotLK.
2. The only player I "attacked" is the novice who made the original post the Blue replied to. A player's rating has a validity to the claims he's making when he's unaware of how mechanics work. Had he posted a more informed post I wouldn't have referred to his current 2v2 rating. Hey, just like my current 3v3 rating isn't related to the validity of my claim that the main issue is the Mastery scaling which was foreseen as early as the shattering patch. Cool.
3. Frost Mages are still inferior to Affliction Warlocks and have been so for every season in this expansion. The other casters don't quite measure up outside of wizard cleaves built around a Mage or a Warlock's utility but personally I prefer that to having them try to balance comps featuring 30 specs because Balance Druids want an equal representation to that of entire classes. The only class which is underpowered at the moment is the Warrior.
4. Surprise me and say that your main isn't a Warrior.

edit:
Insert obligatory "lol season still young", "we was higher", "lol su rmp isn't op, it's skill comp".

[Tomia]

I got this from the Blue Post ^,..,^
•Deep Freeze is on the stun diminishing returns.
•Ring of Frost and Polymorph are on the disorient DR.
•The mage Frost Nova and the Water Elemental's Freeze are both on the root DR.
•Improved Cone of Cold and Shattered Barrier are on the random root DR.
•There are also several snares which are not affected by DR, such as Frostbolt
Dont Forget we also have Impact for stuns and FrostFire ORB for another Slow.

Yes, Frost Mage has too much controll compared to ALL other classes. This will all change on MOP 5.0
They are aware of the situation so the solution they can think of is the new talent system. Making those "Too much Controll" abilities you guys complain about be available on OTHER spec Not just frost.

Last I checked the blue post the 3x crit multiplier is available in ALL mage spec. Imagine Arcane Mage with Deep Freeze ^,..,^ or Fire mage with pyro x3 crit after using deep freeze

Makes things more balance. I think ^,..,^ or did they just made Mages more DEADLY? We wont be saying "Frost mage" anymore rather we will be saying "MAGE" (without the spec) since all those controll will be available to all specs.

Having too much controll is the only reason why they nerf and are not planing on buffing frost damage on PURPOSE (wrat and catalism). By reducing the controll of frost mages they have given a chance for them to BUFF Frost dps (without affecting PvP) to make it Par with the other spec and be used in PVE (raids).

[verdamte]

Yes, Frost Mage has too much controll compared to ALL other classes. This will all change on MOP 5.0
They are aware of the situation so the solution they can think of is the new talent system. Making those "Too much Controll" abilities you guys complain about be available on OTHER spec Not just frost.

Last I checked the blue post the 3x crit multiplier is available in ALL mage spec. Imagine Arcane Mage with Deep Freeze ^,..,^ or Fire mage with pyro x3 crit after using deep freeze).

All pvp mage specs have shatter now - so why not in mop? From the look of it, Arcane will be so-so in pvp. Putting Arcane Missile, arcane Bomb and Abar on the Ab debuff not only means that AB`s dmg will be spread out on a dot and a channel, it might allso means that Bomb, Am and Abar will be balanced around 4 stacks and do very little dmg unless you constantly are keeping those up. Might even opt for scorch and living bomb(fire) just to have some dmg outside 4 stacks.
Fire dont have Hot streak anymore so you could be unlucky and not getting a single instant pyro on those deep freezes. 45 sec combust will help, but on the other hand, Dispels getting a cd - but wiping every harmfull effect on the target will counter it pretty good i think.[/QUOTE]

Makes things more balance. I think ^,..,^ or did they just made Mages more DEADLY? We wont be saying "Frost mage" anymore rather we will be saying "MAGE" (without the spec) since all those controll will be available to all specs.

I got the feeling you will be saying " Warrior" after encountering a titan gripping warrior with dobbelt charge, throwdown, 30yard stun, 30% crit banner and Bladestorm.