1. #1

    Heroic Ultraxion 25M shadow advice

    Looking for any hints, tips, advice for shadow dps on 25m Heroic Ultraxion.

    I feel like I know how to get decent dps on most fights. I have a respectable ranking on 25m Ultraxion normal so this isn't a case of not knowing how to dps.
    The problem I am having is that I do much less dps on heroic, around 5k-7k less dps. Obviously there are alot more fading lights and having to disperse for hour of twilight, each time these things happen it is a temporary break in dps. However I would have thought since dots are still rolling and it really is only a couple of seconds each time that the dps wouldn't be that much lower. I feel like there is something I am missing.

    Please share any advice or tricks you can for 25m.

  2. #2
    Pit Lord Martinussen's Avatar
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    i dont know how much of a help this is, but if you have very low ping you can wait with heroic will until there is only 0.3 seconds left of fading light and HoT. this is obviously very risky, but it can allow you to do much more dps.

    maybe you also just had some bad RNG on fading lights?
    "When you want to succeed as bad as you want to breathe, then you'll be successful"
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  3. #3
    The Patient
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    Maybe try a disperse canceling macro if you are soaking. Otherwise just reduce your time with HoT and fading light as much as possible and do the same thing you do on normal.

  4. #4
    Pit Lord Martinussen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lwalker8 View Post
    Maybe try a disperse canceling macro if you are soaking. Otherwise just reduce your time with HoT and fading light as much as possible and do the same thing you do on normal.
    yea, this too.
    "When you want to succeed as bad as you want to breathe, then you'll be successful"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsSC2vx7zFQ

  5. #5
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    The fight isn't very friendly to shadow - because the execute range is bogged up with tons of fading lights and massive damage (so a possible DH for healing buff), our execute range damage is actually lower than our dps at the start of the fight. Consequently, you pop bloodlust right near the start of the fight, and maximizing your dps during that is very important - but as shadow our ramp-up overlaps with the bloodlust and pre-pot, so it's not really ideal for us to lust then. Definitely a /cancelaura Dispersion macro helps a lot - as soon as the shadow wave goes over your model you can cancelaura (or watch for the damage spike on anyone else soaking on raid frames).

    Edit: Class swap sorry. It's kind of hard to think about how you could be losing 5-7k though without having a frame of reference, are you going from 45k down to 40k, or 35k down to 28k? It's a pretty massive range and I don't know how you are geared, toss us a parse and an armory link and we can sim you to know what to expect, and then check it against your parse to see what might be off ^^

    Edit 2: Oh also, there is a thread called "Fix My DPS" which I'm sure the moderators would prefer you post in over creating a new thread!
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2012-02-07 at 06:05 PM.
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  6. #6
    Yes it could be bad rng on fading lights, it did feel like I got them more often. But even still it felt like I was losing more dps than I should have compared to normal. I figure the trick is in cutting the use of heroic will as late as possible and canceling disperse etc.... maybe because my guild just started working on this fight on heroic I am being too cautious.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkillOverKill View Post
    It's kind of hard to think about how you could be losing 5-7k though without having a frame of reference, are you going from 45k down to 40k, or 35k down to 28k? It's a pretty massive range and I don't know how you are geared, toss us a parse and an armory link and we can sim you to know what to expect, and then check it against your parse to see what might be off ^^

    Edit 2: Oh also, there is a thread called "Fix My DPS" which I'm sure the moderators would prefer you post in over creating a new thread!
    I was looking more for help with a specific fight rather than general advice on how to play my class, normally I am very happy with my dps and I have ranked on a few fights, I understand shadow mechanics fairly well but I feel like I am missing something obvious on this specific fight.

    Well my ilvl is 397, I have legendary but I don't get DI. My last attempt on normal I got just over 42k dps which put me around a 70 rank from memory. I feel reasonably confident that I can pull respectable dps in a situation I am familiar with, but on Heroic I am doing around 36k dps average.The other thing on normal I have been using the MS+MB rotation and I can get AA and SF to line up 3 times on normal but on heroic it never lines up because I have to stop mindflaying all the time. I expected there to be some dps drop from normal to heroic with all the extra breaks in rotation but when I look at logs from other guilds people seem to not really be losing any dps at all.

    How much is a "normal" amount of dps to lose on heroic?

  7. #7
    Sounds to me like you'd simply benefit from clipping the button closer, make sure it's keybound and you have a good debuff timer (fortexorcist for example) to track fading light and hit it at the very end. If you have a shitty connection then it's just something you'll have to live with and accept.
    The hour of twilight cast seems to be more sensitive to cutting it close, I usually give myself ~0.3sec to port out.

    With fading lights I won't even see my screen change, you can cut it so close you barely lose anything (can use an instant and be back before the GCD ends).
    Redsparowe#2548 <Crayola Inc>, Lightbringer EU

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Derpyhooves
    The other thing on normal I have been using the MS+MB rotation and I can get AA and SF to line up 3 times on normal but on heroic it never lines up because I have to stop mindflaying all the time.
    Are you sure it wasn't a case of bad RNG on MF crit? I haven't experienced much differences in Shadowfiend / AA line up in heroic compared with normal. You have more chance to get Fading Light, but each Fading Light should only cost you 1 MF tick at most. There could be downtime at the end if you have to Hymm, but after the nerf you can just tell your healers to heal / plan cds better and let you stay in shadowform.
    In short, just stick with MS MB.

  9. #9
    Thanks for all the responses I think I was just being overly cautious with trying not to die. I will try to cut things a bit shorter with dispersion and heroic will and see how much that helps.

  10. #10
    Remeber your normal kills are surely minutes shorter than HC kills, so your dps will be automatically worse (less heroism uptime, less potion uptime etc)

  11. #11
    Grunt
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    On HM Ultrax we hero off the bat and my 4pc rotation doesn't allow SF prior to hero (SF needs to be active to have the heroism benefit) am I better off with the 4.2 rotation priority followed by the 4pc burst after hero?

    I presume if I go normal rotation THEN 4pc after hero that I will still have the same # of 4pc bursts vs starting the fight w the 4pc.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Comi View Post
    On HM Ultrax we hero off the bat and my 4pc rotation doesn't allow SF prior to hero (SF needs to be active to have the heroism benefit) am I better off with the 4.2 rotation priority followed by the 4pc burst after hero?

    I presume if I go normal rotation THEN 4pc after hero that I will still have the same # of 4pc bursts vs starting the fight w the 4pc.
    Our group does the same thing and I find I get better results starting the old way and then sf and AA line up really closely later and use the MB/MS thing then.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Comi View Post
    On HM Ultrax we hero off the bat and my 4pc rotation doesn't allow SF prior to hero (SF needs to be active to have the heroism benefit) am I better off with the 4.2 rotation priority followed by the 4pc burst after hero?

    I presume if I go normal rotation THEN 4pc after hero that I will still have the same # of 4pc bursts vs starting the fight w the 4pc.
    i like just to open with the normal MS/MB even with hero on HC ultra, and just add in a extra MS or two. Mostly since if you do that you will have AA/SF line up perfectly everytime for the 2nd hour of twillight everytime.

    To the OP, ofc you need a cancelaura disperse, use disperse just before twililght hits like you would with the button, cancelaura and dps gain - their shouldnt be any different in using disperse or clicking the button. Also keybind the button since that will make you more safe with hour of twilligt imo. Besides remember to check when new fadings lights are coming before you pop all your shizzle, really not good to have popped SF/AA and then just get a fading light, even tho you only will lack 1 MS or something, its a pretty huge dps lose also. Else their isnt much to say why you woud lose that much dps in heroic, i actually think i gained some on our last heroic kill, simpley because i smoothed things out a bit and didnt have to use hymm because of the 5% nerf.

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