Heroic 10 Ultraxion - Healer Question (and maybe some DPS question)

[Wunhunglo]

Ok, I have read through many of the H Ultraxion threads and am having a hard time finding an answer to my specific question so any input will be greatly appreciated.

Last night (when we didn't die to Fading Light fails, Hour of Twilight fails and/or tank forgot to taunt fails) we had a few 4%-5% wipes that always came down to the healers ability to keep people up. We were running a Disc/H-Pally setup and the Pally kept having mana issues towards the end. Eventually the Pally mentioned that everything he has read suggests H-Pallys should get the Blue buff at the end but the Disc priest was also sure that he was supposed to get the Blue buff. I did a bit of research and found that both Disc and H-Pally's get huge rewards from the blue buff.

So question #1 is, in this situation (Disc and Holy Pally), who should get the buffs and in what order?

Otherwise, (Question #2) if any of you could take a quick peek at our DPS (yes some of these attempts don't look great due to early wipes) and make any suggestions, that would be fantastic! My main concerns would be with the Shadow Priest, Warlock and Mage.

Logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/w...pes&boss=55294

Last nights Roster:
Tanks:
DK
Druid
Healers:
Disc Priest
H Pally
DPS:
Arms Warrior
Combat Rogue
Elemental Shaman
Fire Mage
Demon Lock
Shadow Priest

Thank you all in advance for helping the 386th "Please help me on H Ultrax thread".

[santa666]

Ill recite what i've said in the last 385 threads

Up the tank damage, tanks should be doing ~25k each.
Disc should be dpsing until first TW/pally needs help.

Looking at try 8 (was over 5 minutes)
Yer arms warrior is doing decent dps but have wrong rotation.
MS is 4th on damage.
4.5 sec cooldown during 318 sec fight, removing ~18 for hour/fading tapping. that should be ~66 MS hits, he has 42. Missing ~24 MS.

Quick fix:
Up tank damage.
Have less time in TW/Fading.
Force dps to prepot!!
Is any1 providing the 10% sp buff, if not, have lock go demo(should change from affil regardless tbh.) (edit: He wasnt demo on try 8...)

Running out of time, work is ovvah, might check in when i get home :P

[Kurzior]

Is any1 providing the 10% sp buff, if not, have lock go demo(should change from affil regardless tbh.)

Quick note here, the elemental shaman brings 10% SP, so you're fine there.


Blue buff is ideal for both of these healing specs. Disc priests can spam PoH for group healing and DA shields, paladins get to spam HR on what is basically a mana-neutral rotation. Looking at your logs, I'd lean towards the priest, but it should go to whichever one can give the highest throughput.

The other thing I notice is that your paladin is saving his cd's for the end of the fight. He has plenty of time to use all of them (other than GoAK) at least twice, so make sure he does. This might also allow your priest to get some dps time in early on to help with the soft-enrage. Divine plea should be used twice during this fight, preferably just before fading out for Hour of Twilight to minimize the effect on healing. Probably the 2nd and 4th/5th HoT would be best.

Lastly, Aura Mastery with resist aura doesn't help on this fight as none of the damage is resistable. Have him swap to concentration and use it during both Time Warps to give you just a little more dps.

[Sparkyman]

DPS is about right, just enough to kill it. I guess war and lock died a bit early on the best try their uptime is 10% lower than the rest of the group.
Feral tank could do a bit higher, tell him to use agility trinketsand maybe reforge to expertise if he isnt capped.

Paladin holy radiance- 25% of the total healing - this is something wrong, give him blue buff and ask to spam like mad

[Daimon]

Uh? Aura Mastery is awesome, you can't resist HoT but the AoE through all the fight can be mitigated w AM, I think you should put the disc in red and pally in Green/Blue, and spam HR like hell when the blue is up. You should do the trick of hero at the start w the healers phased so you can hero again at the 5min mark.

[Sadinar]

Uh? Aura Mastery is awesome, you can't resist HoT but the AoE through all the fight can be mitigated w AM

No you can't. Look through logs, no logs show partial resists from twilight instability. No damage on ultraxion is resistable. On the other hand, there is also zero spell pushback on this fight as well, you should really slap on devo or ret aura, but auras are all kind of pointless on this fight as a pally.

As for healers, paladins are widely considered superior with blue. HR scales much better with haste than poh due to the far more effective hot, and costs more mana. Your paladin should get green/blue, and your disc red.

[Kurzior]

No you can't. Look through logs, no logs show partial resists from twilight instability. No damage on ultraxion is resistable. On the other hand, there is also zero spell pushback on this fight as well, you should really slap on devo or ret aura, but auras are all kind of pointless on this fight as a pally.

Actually wasn't aware that there was no pushback on this fight. Go figure. In that case, though, it doesn't seem like it would even be worth the mana or the gcd to use AM. At best, you give the than a miniscule amount of mitigation from the bonus armor with Devo or get a few boosted hits from ret aura. Definitely not enough to prevent a wipe or beat the enrage, no matter how close you are.

[Sadinar]

Well, am doesn't use a gcd so its a question of mana and if you have blue theres no reason not to use it. But its not like it will matter.

[LaplaceNoMa]

Your DPS are very bad. People shouldn't be doing less than 35k dps if you're on H Ultraxion.

[RavenGage]

First of all, while I'm sure your DPS have room to improve I looked at their numbers and they do have enough damage to beat enrage by 20+ seconds. My main spec is heals right now so I'll focus on that. Your tanks look good on damage,

So question #1 is, in this situation (Disc and Holy Pally), who should get the buffs and in what order?

Crystals You have 2 options:
red/blue pally and green priest - Easy early due to pally having red while priest DPS. Hard later because priest is bad with green in last min
green/blue pally and red priest - Harder early because pally won't have red. Easier later because priest will have red for last minute

I prefer option 2. Always give blue to Pally. Always. Why you ask?
- Pally's HR double dips into haste, not only does it get a cast time reduction it's HoT portion ticks a lot more. Priest only gets a cast time reduction
- Pally's HR costs 9k mana. Priest's PoH costs 5k, who do you think needs a mana cost reduction more?
- A pally with blue will do more HPS than a priest with blue. This is not up for debate in any way shape or form, it is pure mathematical fact

There's a reason why all the world/regional first kill gave blue to pally and why WoL's rankings have almost nothing but pallies on top for this fight.

Like I said your DPS, while not perfect, are good enough to down this. If you sort out your healing you should be able to go all the way to enrage. If you can't heal to enrage with the 2nd crystal order I gave you then your healers aren't doing their job well enough. It's not even hard, all they gotta do is spam HR and PoH with the priest shielding and spot healing tanks. Remember that last part, the priest does tank healing in the last minute, not the pally. At most the pally can throw out a DL but every GCD should be used on HR spamming.

PS: Don't use HR on the same person. Cast it on multiple targets.

PPS: This was our first kill - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/m...?s=1290&e=1632 - DPS was nearly identical to yours. It was a relatively sloppy kill (fading light fucks ups) but we didn't take WoL of better ones. Look at how high that Pally's HPS spikes in the last minute: 200k, as opposed to your Pally's 75k and your priest's 98. That's why you give Paladin blue buff, they pop personal CDs and Volcanic Potion and the fight becomes cakewalk.

[Zheryn]

Holy Paladins have the best AoE heal ingame -> they should ALWAYS get the blue buff. With the blue buff they can spam HR nonstop without going OOM which leads to healing output that no other healing can reach.

---------- Post added 2012-02-07 at 10:47 PM ----------

Also as far as your players go, a few are doing something wrong.

Your mage should be pulling 40k+ in his gear on Ultraxion HC.

Your DK tank should do 24k+. Make sure he has reforged for hit cap/other DPS stat and uses DPS trinkets and gurt if he has it.

Your disc priest should be able to do 7k effective DPS, he's doing 2k now. He should only use smite/holy fire on CD and throw in bubbles on people who are soaking without immunities and maybe a penance here and there. He should only be actually healing with prayers a bit before blue buff comes to help the pala out, and when blue buff comes he goes back to smite/holy fire with a few shields and penance if needed.

[Marizza]

We did our first Ultraxion kill yesterday with a completely new roster and it seems to me that it's a healing problem. Surviving 25 seconds into the soft-enrage ain't good of your healers/raid cooldowns. Me (Paladin) was healing together with a Restoration Shaman yesterday on our first kill. I went for Red/Blue and he took Green and I suggest you do the same because paladins with that color combination are golden.

-There shouldn't be any problems at all to keep up the mana for your paladin until he get blue and make sure he rotates his Holy Radiance on 3-4 players when he got blue buff. Avenging Wrath ready for final minute aswell!
-I noticed you only survived 25 seconds into the soft-enrage, make a Raid Cooldown rotation with Barriers, Aura Mastery, 4-set bonuses and you'll survive a bit longer etc

[Vampiroth]

Holy paladin should start with red, then take blue when it comes out. Druid can innervate him for a small amount of mana and the priest can hymn. Ultraxion is a holy paladin fight, feed him.

[ensignjuan]

Holy Paladins have the best AoE heal ingame -> they should ALWAYS get the blue buff. With the blue buff they can spam HR nonstop without going OOM which leads to healing output that no other healing can reach.

---------- Post added 2012-02-07 at 10:47 PM ----------

Also as far as your players go, a few are doing something wrong.

Your mage should be pulling 40k+ in his gear on Ultraxion HC.

Your DK tank should do 24k+. Make sure he has reforged for hit cap/other DPS stat and uses DPS trinkets and gurt if he has it.

Your disc priest should be able to do 7k effective DPS, he's doing 2k now. He should only use smite/holy fire on CD and throw in bubbles on people who are soaking without immunities and maybe a penance here and there. He should only be actually healing with prayers a bit before blue buff comes to help the pala out, and when blue buff comes he goes back to smite/holy fire with a few shields and penance if needed.

All advice definitely appreciated, but this sounds a lot more like what I've read and hoped for. Disc healing without a Pallie would be the better candidate for the blue, however. I have no mana issues if I can Smite until the poopstorm at the end. Finally, a lusted Hymn, preceded by glyphed barrier (+10% heals) is still quite powerful, even without the blue buff. Oh, and finally getting my hands on the Maw should also be a nice buff, so I hear.

[Elveren]

I would definitly give the paladin red > blue. If it's hard for your healers to keep up at the end, save your raid cooldowns and your dk's 4 set (it's a very good one here with the short cd and high uptime). It's also helpful if your healers use the button in the start of the fight so they don't get the time warp debuff by entering the normal realm, then they can get it after the 5 min mark when it's off cooldown. The risk with that is that your tanks will be without heals for a few seconds, so they might wanna use a cooldown. Also worth to note is that if they are using potions of concentration, the channel will not be interupted when you use the special button for hour.

Your dps could be higher, also your tanks. Your warrior and shaman seems to be doing good enough overall, but your rogue should do quite a lot more (did he have those daggers on the logs?), your mage should be doing more dps aswell.

Your shadow priest needs some work with his gearing. He is at 18% hit, his bracers could use a better enchant (+50 int) and chest (+20 stats). I could be wrong now, I haven't kept myself up to date with shadow, but is a socket bonus of +20 int really worth it if you have to use one purple and one orange gem?

Your holy paladin gemmed his chest with a str/haste gem, I'm guessing by accident.

But honestly, your people seems to have good gear, with the nerf the aoe damage after the 5 min mark barely hurts and you shouldn't even make it to the 5:30 mark before the boss is dead. If your healers can't keep up with the aoe damage before the 5:30 mark its a learn to play issue, sorry to say it.

[Trixzy]

PPS: This was our first kill - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/m...?s=1290&e=1632 - DPS was nearly identical to yours. It was a relatively sloppy kill (fading light fucks ups) but we didn't take WoL of better ones. Look at how high that Pally's HPS spikes in the last minute: 200k, as opposed to your Pally's 75k and your priest's 98. That's why you give Paladin blue buff, they pop personal CDs and Volcanic Potion and the fight becomes cakewalk.

Off-Topic; Tell your Mage to read up on Combustion usage. His average ticks are at 6k and crits at 11k, when they should be alot higher.

[RavenGage]

Off-Topic; Tell your Mage to read up on Combustion usage. His average ticks are at 6k and crits at 11k, when they should be alot higher.

Its also dependent on RNG and on Yor they had to be used at specific times when adds come, there isn't always time to get an ideal Combustion running. I do it on my mage alt and it's a pain in my ass. But yes, you are right. She had pretty shit luck that attempt, it's been a lot higher on our later kills it's just too bad we didn't parse them.

Edit: Nvm got my logs messed up, this is Ultrax not Yor. Been posting in too many threads

[LaplaceNoMa]

Its also dependent on RNG and on Yor they had to be used at specific times when adds come, there isn't always time to get an ideal Combustion running. I do it on my mage alt and it's a pain in my ass. But yes, you are right. She had pretty shit luck that attempt, it's been a lot higher on our later kills it's just too bad we didn't parse them.

It doesn't matter; ANY FB/PB ignite + LB would get ~10k TICKS, not crits. His tick/crit damage means he doesn't always have LB or FB's ignite for combustion

[rinleezwins]

Holy paladin should get blue and hardcast radiance, no mana issues and the best hps you can pull that way.

[Ralser]

give the paladin the blue, priest the green/red, pop bl at 20%