1. #1

    Looking for a gameplay review based on logs

    Hi there,

    Our 2nd 10-man is steadily progressing through DS and since I am not in it, I cannot comment firsthand on performance.
    All I've seen are logs and I can't make much sense out of it...
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/1dh21...v1/details/32/ is a log from an almost full clear (on normal - attendance issues)

    Not sure if you do need the armory - if you do, I can post it or you can easily find for yourself based on server name + toon name.

    My thoughts so far:
    * Much too high Flash Heal usage
    * Much too low ProM and Renew usage

  2. #2
    You can't fix a player like this, he has to fix himself.

    As a minor point, renew is very situational. You don't need to use renew at all to be a very good holy priest, it's one of those niche spells and you can fill the niche with other things. But, ask him what he thinks he's gaining by spamming flash heal. For the record, most of his ACTIVITY is spent on FH. This is very, very bad. If he isn't going 'what the hell, how can I keep up better with that pally' and taking initiative on his own to figure it out, I'd be searching the market for a replacement immediately.

  3. #3
    What is your role in the 2nd group? Are they working on hmodes? All I can see is that they downed some bosses while two healing. 10m raid teams have an intimacy level that is higher than 25m. If it's not your raid team, not your class, etc. why are you here? What could you possibly do besides sow a little discontent?

  4. #4
    On all the kills, his highest contributing spell is Flash Heal.

    I'm befuddled by this. Must spend a lot of time being OOM, or a lot of time doing nothing in between the Flash Heal spams. Flash Heal is 90% of the time going to be a "Oh shit I screwed up and now I need to fix it" kind of spell. While Flash Heals give a buff to Holy Priests in the shape of Serendipity, that's going to mostly be a side effect of proccing instant FH's or a nice side effect of having to use Flash Heal as an emergency. Having Serendipity stacked is by no means needed before you cast Prayer of Healing. He should be using that a lot more, as well as Prayer of Mending (Should be used on cooldown almost, unless several bounces remain). Renew is as stated above quite situational, and a spell that people have to learn to work into their healing style on their own. Sometimes I use it a lot, sometimes not, most of the time I don't really use it at all unless I'm on the move and PoM + CoH is on cooldown. In some cases it's also really nice, etc. Situational.
    I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like more than half of you more than you deserve.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by constantduty View Post
    What is your role in the 2nd group? Are they working on hmodes? All I can see is that they downed some bosses while two healing. 10m raid teams have an intimacy level that is higher than 25m. If it's not your raid team, not your class, etc. why are you here? What could you possibly do besides sow a little discontent?
    I am the Raid Leader of the second 10-man (and tbh - acting GM) - we are at 5/8 with Warmaster on 100k hp before nerf
    The other 10-man is 1/8 and working on Yor whenever they have the proper raid setup online - 3 healers. They do seem to be mildly discouraged by wiping a lot though and I've just been getting reports from players who were a bit confused with the aforementioned "rotation" of the priest

  6. #6
    I think he may be raiding with the mind set that was kind of used in Firelands well not as much for the flash heal spam but in firelands the majority of fights required more single target casting and less aoe spam where as now in DS that's completely flipped over with most fights requiring burst aoe healing.

    You said that group has 3 healers if that is the case then I suggest replacing the holy priest with the other healer for two healer fights and see how the runs go, my guess is it will make the pallies life easier and make each encounter less stressful for the rest of the group.

  7. #7
    Ur the raidleader of the 2nd 10man.
    While in ur OP post u say ur not in it.

    How can u raidlead properly if ur not in it ?

    Sig made by Resentful

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by DerrHans View Post
    Ur the raidleader of the 2nd 10man.
    While in ur OP post u say ur not in it.

    How can u raidlead properly if ur not in it ?
    I am raid leading a 2nd 10-man (which is MY 10-man, 5/8h) - however because of the fact that I used to be raid leading 25s and that MY 10-man is a bit more successfull, people from the 1st 10-man (1/8h) turn to me for advice from time to time

    I definitely am NOT raid leading the 1st 10-man - I do try to help as much as I can though - which is not much... all I can do is mostly go through logs, talk with people, etc.

    Anyway how should I go about talking to the person?
    "You know, I've been told by successfull priests that one should not mainly spam FH but try to use ProM on CD, CoH on CD, PoH whenever predictable raid group healing is required and heal/greater heal when spot-healing"?
    Just a gist... or should I point them to some mmo/EJ guides?

  9. #9
    If that group is working on Hmodes I can't imagine that the priest in question has not checked out some of the resources you suggested. Earlier I posted that 10m teams are pretty intimate affairs - at least in my experience. If you hop in and start offering critiques based on research of a class you are not familiar with to a player that you do not raid with (regardless of your guild status) then that team needs to be prepared to replace that healer (which they may not be prepared to do) because it will not go over well. Honestly, you need to let that team deal with it IN team. Let their raid leader handle the situation. All you have done is post logs on normal mode boss kills to get advice on why a 10m team you are not even on is getting frustrated while wiping on progression content in Heroic mode. I'm not pointing this out to be a jerk. You're asking for advice, and I feel that this is the best advice. If it's not your class and not your raid team you really need to stay away. You're going to end up with a very toxic situation on your hands.

  10. #10
    what you wrote is actually pretty reasonable... I might have to rethink that and maybe take a step back and do not interfere even though it pains me to see people not using their full potential

  11. #11
    Again, this is not the kind of player you can use for HMode progression, bottom line. Either they replace him or they'll be stuck 1/8 until people start quitting. For HMode everyone has to show up ready to work, and clearly this person isn't like that. He's just along for the ride.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Morghie View Post
    I am raid leading a 2nd 10-man (which is MY 10-man, 5/8h) - however because of the fact that I used to be raid leading 25s and that MY 10-man is a bit more successfull, people from the 1st 10-man (1/8h) turn to me for advice from time to time

    I definitely am NOT raid leading the 1st 10-man - I do try to help as much as I can though - which is not much... all I can do is mostly go through logs, talk with people, etc.

    Anyway how should I go about talking to the person?
    "You know, I've been told by successfull priests that one should not mainly spam FH but try to use ProM on CD, CoH on CD, PoH whenever predictable raid group healing is required and heal/greater heal when spot-healing"?
    Just a gist... or should I point them to some mmo/EJ guides?
    Was just wondering


    About the telling the person to improve.

    AoE healing HW:Sanc (if stacked) PoH spam CoH on CD PoM (glyphed ofc) on CD (target tank unless its damage directed to a random target (watch timers). Spot healing, Heal on low incoming damage, FHeal if he need a fast heal to top a person off (like tank before impale on madness) or if he need healing fast + a tank/dps (eating hagara ice lances for example) use Binding Heal. FHeal/Gheal if the tank/dps received a big hit. Alternately he could switch chakra eacht time the fight changes (Zon'Oss / Yor'Sahj) and cast renew on the tank and the strong instant heal to keep renew rolling. But the only fights i see it has uses to chakra switch are Zon'Ozz and Yor'Sahj.

    Forgot name for now, im not 24/7 holy but disc

    But Zaka is prolly right, u will lose time with the guy and be stuck for a while on 1/8hc
    Last edited by DerrHans; 2012-02-08 at 03:56 PM.

    Sig made by Resentful

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by zakaluka View Post
    Again, this is not the kind of player you can use for HMode progression, bottom line. Either they replace him or they'll be stuck 1/8 until people start quitting. For HMode everyone has to show up ready to work, and clearly this person isn't like that. He's just along for the ride.
    Where are the logs, personal experience with this particular player, etc. to back this type of thinking up? A link to logs on one night of normal mode boss kills from a player that doesn't even raid with the player in question proves nothing. Everyone seems to lament the passing of community in this game, yet they're so quick to cause conflict as well. The OP is correct in recognizing a potential issue for the second raid team, but there is a way to approach the matter in a reasonable way. OP, I would recommend checking out plus heal and their forums as well. Great community. Your guild should have a website and/or forums. Posting a link to that site for your guild is a way to nudge someone in the right direction.

  14. #14
    Might I recommend fixating less on the priest and looking at why people are dying?
    I've only looked at a couple of the deaths only a couple of the bosses, from what I can see it looks like this priest *IS* healing them and the Holy pally is not.

    Looks like he's too busy cheesing the meters with Holy Radiance spam, to the point of nearly 50% overhealing, at the cost of deaths.

    ./my 2 cents


    Also, Fheal being up high on a meter breakdown is fine for DS 10 man. My only alarming concern is that he isn't using Binding Heal at all. And with the pally AoE healing so much, he might consider Serenity chakra... just saying.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Vraie View Post
    Go and look at other logs, the group is apparently 1/8H, never can find a morchok kill from them for some reason. A 'night of normals' doesn't mean anything because they're obviously not above the playing level of normals.

    @OP, if they're asking for your advice, advise them to replace that priest ASAP.
    To what purpose? Are you on that raid team? Is it someone's friend? All of the team's friend? Is the healer new to the raid team or are the people complaining new to the raid team? Is it the holy pally performing a / flex and saying "check out how hard I carry this guy" etc.? Themios has it right by examining the logs in detail and from all angles, but there are other points to consider. Namely the thoughts and feelings of the ten people on that team. Raiding with 9 other people at a minimum of 4 hours a week requires a certain level of civility and comraderie. Any other environment will simply be toxic and destined to fall apart, or at the very least demonstrate a high rate of turn over.

  16. #16
    I'm not very good with the holy spec, but I do know that Flash Heal is usually an emergency spell. When it comes to talking to the guy, I would ask him first how he thinks it's going and suggest him to use other spells more often. And usually when people do need to be healed up fast including yourself Binding Heal is a better choice as it costs the same amount, has the same casting time and heals for not that much less than Flash Heal. Ask him if he's willing to spend some time on reading a bit more about spell usage instead of just blindly swapping him out for someone else. Depending on what he says you can decide what to do.

    (I have to add that I don't really have 10 man raiding experience in DS as Flash Heal/Binding Heal might be used more often there than in 25 man raiding)

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