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  1. #21
    Warchief gutnbrg's Avatar
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    yea i dont get the 10sec duration, i think it should at least be 15seconds...

  2. #22
    Stood in the Fire McSpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderbred View Post
    So on my Disc the other day I won Heart of Unliving trinket. After doing some testing I felt really bad. I love the A/AA spec but this trinket don't seem to work off of smite heals. So I pretty much stole this from someone else who could have really used it. Any idea on how to maintain this trink while also smite healing. Keep a renew ticking on the tank or something, maybe?
    renew doesn't work its heal CAST. try using penance on CD with PW:S. but really its bad for smite healing so try to replace it with the trinkets that proc haste. i have the one that procs off dps and the one that procs off heals. smite healing can proc both

    ---------- Post added 2012-02-09 at 02:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Heap View Post
    So would PoH for example add 5 stacks then, like pre-nerf tsunami?
    yes it does I've tried it
    Last edited by McSpriest; 2012-02-09 at 08:15 PM.

  3. #23
    Smite/HF is to be woven in to your normal healing spells. Uptime is stupid easy to maintain on this trinket (barring Purple ooze, which you can't atonement for ANYWAY**).

    Why are people still sitting there smite/hf it bound to their mousewheel?

    **for laughs, see how fast your raid wipes to the Holy Fire dot transferring as separate heals via atonement.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderbred View Post
    Ok so I went and did a LFR last night and had better results. This trinket can be great, It just takes some getting used to. It really does need a longer duration, even just 5 more seconds. On death wing fight there is enough AoE healing going out that its pretty much always at 10 stacks. Going between platforms and getting into position were about the only times it fell off/almost fell off.
    When you're switching platforms, just keep an eye on how much time is left on it and renew someone or yourself to keep the stacks up.

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    Quote by Jim Rohn

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by jifjosh View Post
    Why are people still sitting there smite/hf it bound to their mousewheel?
    Yeah this makes me die a little bit. Too much stereotype with AA/A these days, people think it so bad. In fact my hst>crit AA/A build was near enough to causing my current guild rejecting my application because of stereotype. Needless to say they're glad they gave me a chance.

    "Hey guys I am AA/A spec, I atonement heal"
    is like saying
    "I'm SoS disc, I spam Heal and cast Penance on CD. Why my HPS so low?"
    Think a little bit, people.

  6. #26
    It's a stereotype for a reason, zaka. Case in point? OP felt the trinket was garbage because you can't maintain it by smiting.

    It's not a prime Discipline trinket by any means (outside of spine) but that's not why.

    And pro priests drop inspiration, let the shaman keep that up, while grabbing SoS and Archangel.
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  7. #27
    Field Marshal Rfx's Avatar
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    I currently run Heart of Unliving as disc. This is mainly because Windward Heart never wants to drop, however, this trinket is still fantastic. This trinket allows me to completely reforge out of spirit without facing any form of mana issue. If you use this trinket for disc I strongly suggest you reforge out of spirit, stop playing with a smite spec (:P) and keep on top of rapture procs and you'll see your mana is fine with better throughput.

    If you have access to all Dragon Soul trinkets i'd suggest for Disc running, Seal and Windward heart. And Seal and Heart for Holy.

    The trinket itself is very easy to keep up. Cast two prayer of healing's before the fight starts (which you should also do to pre-stack DA, will give you 10stacks. It is easy to keep up and shouldn't drop unless your doing something like a Hymn or Conc pot.
    PS: Archangel/Atonement suck. Obviously it's preference and playstyle but you can do much better without them. Waste of Talent Points.
    Last edited by Rfx; 2012-02-11 at 06:39 AM.

  8. #28
    Herald of the Titans Yilar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rfx View Post
    I currently run Heart of Unliving as disc. This is mainly because Windward Heart never wants to drop, however, this trinket is still fantastic. This trinket allows me to completely reforge out of spirit without facing any form of mana issue. If you use this trinket for disc I strongly suggest you reforge out of spirit, stop playing with a smite spec (:P) and keep on top of rapture procs and you'll see your mana is fine with better throughput.

    If you have access to all Dragon Soul trinkets i'd suggest for Disc running, Seal and Windward heart. And Seal and Heart for Holy.

    The trinket itself is very easy to keep up. Cast two prayer of healing's before the fight starts (which you should also do to pre-stack DA, will give you 10stacks. It is easy to keep up and shouldn't drop unless your doing something like a Hymn or Conc pot.
    PS: Archangel/Atonement suck. Obviously it's preference and playstyle but you can do much better without them. Waste of Talent Points.
    Why does it suck? I do between 1mill and 5mill dmg on morchok -> spine hc.

  9. #29
    Field Marshal Rfx's Avatar
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    It does have its uses on spine heroic. I don't disagree with that, however you should be playing holy for spine anyway (not to say you couldn't have an AA spec in holy but you wouldn't be healing)

    But beside for spine, you can be doing more with your time then investing the time to build 5 stacks (or more).

  10. #30
    Herald of the Titans Yilar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rfx View Post
    It does have its uses on spine heroic. I don't disagree with that, however you should be playing holy for spine anyway (not to say you couldn't have an AA spec in holy but you wouldn't be healing)

    But beside for spine, you can be doing more with your time then investing the time to build 5 stacks (or more).
    Sorry, but what is this "more" I can do? In the end you can only do so and so much healing, and if the other healer(s) can provide a large part of that you'll be healing straight into overhealing for no reason.

  11. #31
    Field Marshal Rfx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yilar View Post
    Sorry, but what is this "more" I can do? In the end you can only do so and so much healing, and if the other healer(s) can provide a large part of that you'll be healing straight into overhealing for no reason.
    -- Presheild raid (i.e ball comming on warlord, morchok stomp, yor'shaj globule phases, hagara lightning, warmaster soaking/roar/everything on that fight)
    -- Triage/Precast Gheal/Pennance

    Predicting the damage and preparing for it is better then smiting. Considering Gheal is stronger then a Smite heal why not use Gheal? 15% more healing is cool, but think of the throughput you could have done in the time of casting those 5 smites.

    Once again it can come down to playstyle and what someone prefers to do. My preference is not using it. :|
    Not to mention where you could put those talent points.
    Last edited by Rfx; 2012-02-11 at 10:03 AM.

  12. #32
    Field Marshal DrakeZ's Avatar
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    I for one have to say, that I love, love, LOVE A/A discipline.

    The micro management of cooldowns, the uses of it, bringing a little bit of extra dps while still healing (Ultraxion hc says hi), popping wings and then healing like a boss is so damn good.
    Just play whatever you like, but personally for me A/A feels like a bigger healing challenge, and I like challenges! Just don't spam smite, it's not worth it, use holy fire to stack evangelism and use archangel when s*it hits the fan.

    I have met a lot of people in lfr asking me how can I heal so much when I use A/A. People and their stereotypes... /sadpanda

  13. #33
    Field Marshal Rfx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ View Post
    I for one have to say, that I love, love, LOVE A/A discipline.

    The micro management of cooldowns, the uses of it, bringing a little bit of extra dps while still healing (Ultraxion hc says hi), popping wings and then healing like a boss is so damn good.
    Just play whatever you like, but personally for me A/A feels like a bigger healing challenge, and I like challenges! Just don't spam smite, it's not worth it, use holy fire to stack evangelism and use archangel when s*it hits the fan.

    I have met a lot of people in lfr asking me how can I heal so much when I use A/A. People and their stereotypes... /sadpanda
    As I said it does come to playstyle for players. I personally don't think it is 'more of a challenge' I think the ability to predict the damage and prepare for it is what sets an average healer away from an amazing healer. I do agree that it is good on ultraxion for pushing that little bit of extra damage however, for my guild atleast, that is irrelevant especially with the 5% buff/debuff. While smite does have its uses - and im not trying to start one massive argument about what is better and if it does have its uses - I believe that the time invested in it could be used better and the talents you end up losing aren't worth it.

    But as Drakez said,
    Play what you want.

  14. #34
    Herald of the Titans Yilar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rfx View Post
    -- Presheild raid (i.e ball comming on warlord, morchok stomp, yor'shaj globule phases, hagara lightning, warmaster soaking/roar/everything on that fight)
    -- Triage/Precast Gheal/Pennance

    Predicting the damage and preparing for it is better then smiting. Considering Gheal is stronger then a Smite heal why not use Gheal? 15% more healing is cool, but think of the throughput you could have done in the time of casting those 5 smites.

    Once again it can come down to playstyle and what someone prefers to do. My preference is not using it. :|
    Not to mention where you could put those talent points.
    You're still predicting dmg with attonement spec. Prediciting dmg has never been easier, almost all abilities have timers or visual effects. Might aswell use it to your advantage. And no you don't just smite 24/7 with attonement spec, there seems to be some misconception around with that. Playing with attonement spec has always been about finding those holes in the healing where you can build up your stack to increase your healing when the raid is taking dmg.

    Preshielding balls is a massive mana sink, you're just forcing the other healers to do nothing. Now imagine you could just smite till dmg got high then pop +15% healing and spew PoH, then right before black phase you could line up another AA to increase healing when it would really matter.
    Morchok sure, but now imagine again you could do 15% more healing when it really mattered?
    Preshielding Yor'shaj globule phases is still doable with attonement spec, nobody forces you to smite 24/7? Also every time blue comes around you can pop AA and you'll never be completely oom and start every phase with a 15% healing increase.
    Hagara lighthing, okay probably not that great here, but it is doable. You can build stack up on the elemental or the boss right before speciel phases, and then pop AA to increase healing.
    Warmaster - Attonement is pretty crap here. Damage is very random (based on player movement) and since you bring lots of ranged your attonement won't really hit anything but the tanks who generally take very little dmg, weaving in smite/hf in p2 seems dangerous aswell and not worth while.
    Spine - Let the other healers heal the debuff while you smite, pop AA on nukes and spew pws/poh and you're golden. Towards the end you naturally heal more traditional, as the holes become less frequent.
    Madness - Lets not get started on how powerfull AA is here. At the end of each platform dmg gets pretty high, a 15% increase healing is fucking godlike, also the last platform has a ton of lul phases where you can easily build up a 5 stack between events.

    But yeah preferred playstyle is different I guess. Some people thought holy was "fine" doing FL10, so yeah... Good luck with that.

    Also in case anyone missed it. The "healing holes" can extend beyond 10 seconds, at which point you're using a heal that will likely end up as overheal to keep the trinket stack up, and you can't just use poh x2 to create a new stack, cause who says the dmg done is done on the entire raid and not just 1-2 people?
    Last edited by Yilar; 2012-02-11 at 01:12 PM.

  15. #35
    Field Marshal Rfx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yilar View Post
    You're still predicting dmg with attonement spec. Prediciting dmg has never been easier, almost all abilities have timers or visual effects. Might aswell use it to your advantage. And no you don't just smite 24/7 with attonement spec, there seems to be some misconception around with that. Playing with attonement spec has always been about finding those holes in the healing where you can build up your stack to increase your healing when the raid is taking dmg.
    I understand 100% how to use the spec to its full potential and how to not chain cast smite . And sure, predicting damage isn't too hard but why not preshield a group? thats an insane amount of throughput. Or if its predictable damage to one raid member pre-cast a gheal. The 'holes' in a fight is when I hymn / conc pot.
    Morchok: 3 black phases, 1st = conc, 2nd = hymn, 3rd = doesnt matter the boss is dead.
    Yorshaj: When oozes are running to the boss, should be pre-shielding
    Warlord: Zonozz: not really any downtime, mostly used on running back to stack or hymn/pot
    Hagara: Could easily build stacks in the time when shes stunned but everyones at full hp. Hymn/Pot anyway.
    Ultraxion: No downtime, good fight for the spec though, especially for dps on heroic.
    Warmaster: Downtime when adds are dead which isnt log and everyone is spread anyway
    Spine: Agreed, it's useful but you should be holy
    Madness: Not as strong as chaining PoH with green dragon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yilar View Post
    Preshielding balls is a massive mana sink, you're just forcing the other healers to do nothing. Now imagine you could just smite till dmg got high then pop +15% healing and spew PoH, then right before black phase you could line up another AA to increase healing when it would really matter.
    If done correctly, it really isn't a mana sink. It pretty much assures 100% uptime on rapture. Why would you not rather prevent damage or say that healing the damage up is better then preventing it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Yilar View Post
    Morchok sure, but now imagine again you could do 15% more healing when it really mattered?
    There really is no 'when it mattered' on Morchok, all that fight requires of a disc priest is to keep shields on the groups he/her is in charge of. It is by far more effective then 15%
    Quote Originally Posted by Yilar View Post
    Preshielding Yor'shaj globule phases is still doable with attonement spec, nobody forces you to smite 24/7? Also every time blue comes around you can pop AA and you'll never be completely oom and start every phase with a 15% healing increase.
    Hagara lighthing, okay probably not that great here, but it is doable. You can build stack up on the elemental or the boss right before speciel phases, and then pop AA to increase healing.
    When blue comes around sure, you won't oom with the 5% mana however, having arcane torrent/mana tide/hymn also does this :P I never said that you couldn't spam bubbles with a smite spec but its much easier to do it without the spec considering you can pick up 3% more haste.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yilar View Post
    Warmaster - Attonement is pretty crap here. Damage is very random (based on player movement) and since you bring lots of ranged your attonement won't really hit anything but the tanks who generally take very little dmg, weaving in smite/hf in p2 seems dangerous aswell and not worth while.
    Agreed, Warmaster phase 2 is very 'intense' especially on tanks (talking about heroic modes) but you can get smites/hf off but its much better once again to pre-cast for the roar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yilar View Post
    Spine - Let the other healers heal the debuff while you smite, pop AA on nukes and spew pws/poh and you're golden. Towards the end you naturally heal more traditional, as the holes become less frequent.
    It's fantastic on this fight but playing disc is not going to help you. Holy is much stronger for healing the debuff which the fight is pretty centered about healing wise on heroic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yilar View Post
    Madness - Lets not get started on how powerfull AA is here. At the end of each platform dmg gets pretty high, a 15% increase healing is fucking godlike, also the last platform has a ton of lul phases where you can easily build up a 5 stack between events.
    As I mentioned earlier, its not worth sacrificing any GCD's for a hf considering DA is scaled up by green/red drakes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yilar View Post
    But yeah preferred playstyle is different I guess. Some people thought holy was "fine" doing FL10, so yeah... Good luck with that.
    100% Agreed.
    Last edited by Rfx; 2012-02-11 at 04:51 PM.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Rfx
    Morchok: 3 black phases, 1st = conc, 2nd = hymn, 3rd = doesnt matter the boss is dead.
    You need to regen mana on Morchok? Really? What are doing wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rfx View Post
    Yorshaj: When oozes are running to the boss, should be pre-shielding
    When boss is channelling cast you have more than enough time to build up evangelism stacks and pre-shield the raid. You must be doing something catastrophically wrong there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rfx View Post
    Warlord: Zonozz: not really any downtime, mostly used on running back to stack or hymn/pot
    Time to build up evang after each black phase. Disc has no mana problems (unless you're only spamming shields and flash heals i guess) so why you think wasting time on a conc pot is better than building a +15% healing buff for the heavy dmg phase is somewhat strange.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rfx View Post
    Hagara: Could easily build stacks in the time when shes stunned but everyones at full hp. Hymn/Pot anyway.
    You build up stacks for when you need them, you dont have to use them straight away. Duh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rfx View Post
    Ultraxion: No downtime, good fight for the spec though, especially for dps on heroic.
    Extra dps = win. Less important since the nerf

    Quote Originally Posted by Rfx View Post
    Warmaster: Downtime when adds are dead which isnt log and everyone is spread anyway
    Not a good fight for AA/A, but you can build up stacks early in phase 1 & 2 and use for onslaught/late in p2

    Quote Originally Posted by Rfx View Post
    Spine: Agreed, it's useful but you should be holy
    Absorbs are the only way to save ppl with the debuff who would otherwise die here. Disc makes it a lot easier for everyone else. And the extra dps on the tendons doesn't hurt (again less important since nerf)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rfx View Post
    Madness: Not as strong as chaining PoH with green dragon.
    Downtime at the start of each platform and after the arm/wing goes down. PoH with +15% buff when you really need it.

    Your analysis = total fail. AA is encounter dependent, but the DS raid where virtually every encounter has a significant amount of downtime makes is a really useful spec.

  17. #37
    For me I usually stack the 5 evangelism in a row just before AA comes off cooldown so I can pop it again but if you attempt that with this trinket you will likely drop the spirit stacks, also I don't know about you guys but it's not often that I actually need to be casting at every moment I mean we do still get down time but with this trinket it wants you to be always active even if you only need to cast a small heal to keep it going.

    Tbh I just work with the mind set that it assists my regen during heavy casting and when it drops it's because I didn't need nor care to keep it active.
    I suppose the question should be though is, how much mana is gained from the trinket every 10 seconds vs the cost of the spell you used to keep it active during those downtimes in combat.

  18. #38
    Field Marshal Rfx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guattari View Post
    You need to regen mana on Morchok? Really? What are doing wrong?
    A. It's called min/maxing to get the most mana out of a fight to expend more into the fight, hymn not only does this for yourself but other healers.
    B. When you're trying to min/max and push out as much throughput as possible, i'd hope that you'd end a fight with anywhere from 5-20% mana.


    Quote Originally Posted by guattari View Post
    When boss is channelling cast you have more than enough time to build up evangelism stacks and pre-shield the raid. You must be doing something catastrophically wrong there.
    Sure, you can easily do that and I don't doubt that, but you're missing half my argument with this post. It's not only about having the points in those talents, but the points you lose from other talents, 3% Haste, 4min Shadowfiend. I'd take passive haste and a reduction on a shadowfiend any day over A/AA. Sure mana doesn't really matter on this fight at all, but still. I don't disagree that you couldn't get 5 stacks easily, I think you are just exaggerating my point.


    Quote Originally Posted by guattari View Post
    Time to build up evang after each black phase. Disc has no mana problems (unless you're only spamming shields and flash heals i guess) so why you think wasting time on a conc pot is better than building a +15% healing buff for the heavy dmg phase is somewhat strange.
    Are you talking about normal mode? Or Heroic? Because all of my points are in reference to Heroic mode. Now, for my guild especially I play a specific role that I need to for fill and it indeed does drain my mana. But once again, mana problems or not, why not use hymn / conc to get more healing out? Or to help other healers?


    Quote Originally Posted by guattari View Post
    You build up stacks for when you need them, you dont have to use them straight away. Duh.
    I am aware of this. You can have 5 stacks from just HF. Not want to use them, refresh with HF until you do need them. But those GCD's could be wasted missing a rapture proc, or other things that may not seem significant but generally are.


    Quote Originally Posted by guattari View Post
    Extra dps = win. Less important since the nerf
    Thats exactly what I said. But for me the dps is irrelevant with the 5% debuff.



    Quote Originally Posted by guattari View Post
    Not a good fight for AA/A, but you can build up stacks early in phase 1 & 2 and use for onslaught/late in p2
    Withholding a 5stack for so long is just a waste of time, building those stacks up in phase 1 just for phase two is stupid because you're not going to be able to build up a second stack in phase 2. The damage is pretty crazy, especially when half your raid gets hit by shockwave >.<.


    Quote Originally Posted by guattari View Post
    Absorbs are the only way to save ppl with the debuff who would otherwise die here. Disc makes it a lot easier for everyone else. And the extra dps on the tendons doesn't hurt (again less important since nerf)
    Discipline on this fight is 'anti-proactive' you can mitigate damage that they won't take but you still work counter-productive to the deubff. I'm 150% sure that any holy priest could double the healing discipline does to Searing Plasma.


    Quote Originally Posted by guattari View Post
    Downtime at the start of each platform and after the arm/wing goes down. PoH with +15% buff when you really need it.
    Once again, are you talking about holding a stack from the start of a platform until the corruption is dead and the arm/wing is near death, or blistering heat? For how I play this fight, wasting one GCD on a holy fire will drop a stack of DA from a group. All you need to do is chain stack DA on that fight while the green dragon is up. Not to mention the cap of DA gets increased by the red dragon.

    Quote Originally Posted by guattari View Post
    Your analysis = total fail. AA is encounter dependent, but the DS raid where virtually every encounter has a significant amount of downtime makes is a really useful spec.
    From a min maxing standpoint the spec is a waste. You're missing out on a passive 3% haste increase and a reduction on a shadowfiend which, for the most part is useful on every single fight. Not only that but you're probably missing either SoS or ToT.

    I am an insanely competitive player, I challenge myself to do the most HPS I can, while doing everything I am assigned to, avoiding mechanics and being cool. If you can provide me with your logs where you used AA for a 6/8 heroic clear, that'd be appreciated because i'd be willing to bet you diddn't do as much as me!

    If you're not casting 100% of the time, you're not playing as well as you could, so when you say, "why are you having mana issues?" that highlights that you are not trying to push as much throughput out as you could. Half of being a healer is being able to manage your mana - and while it may be easy - ending a fight on 70% mana doesn't show that you are pushing hard.
    Last edited by Rfx; 2012-02-12 at 03:22 AM.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Rfx View Post
    The damage is pretty crazy, especially when half your raid gets hit by shockwave >.<.
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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by McSpriest View Post
    renew doesn't work its heal CAST. try using penance on CD with PW:S. but really its bad for smite healing so try to replace it with the trinkets that proc haste. i have the one that procs off dps and the one that procs off heals. smite healing can proc both[COLOR="red"]
    Renew does work. I already thought it did as I thought I had used it before but I've tested it now and im 100% sure it does proc the trinket. Only when you cast it though, the ticks that come after that don't proc it.

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