The glory of engineering and the myth of JC&BS

[crushy88]

Passive bonuses will probably always edge out engineering bonuses unless they stop sharing a CD with trinks & abilities, but people who choose engi instead of JC or BS also want it for non-raid related reasons (the toys). None of the other professions have the cool toys the engi has.

i don't use any trinket so right now eng is the best prof for my hunter

[wynterlyn]

Passive bonuses will probably always edge out engineering bonuses unless they stop sharing a CD with trinks & abilities, but people who choose engi instead of JC or BS also want it for non-raid related reasons (the toys). None of the other professions have the cool toys the engi has.

So true. I have always preferred passive bonuses over on use bonuses. It is much more convenient and 1 less thing to keep track of. Even Trinkets, I'll go out of my way to get a passive Trinket regardless of it being a tad bit worse than an on use one. Your class already has enough CDs to keep track off, doubt anyone would want to keep track of a couple more.

Engineering also gives exactly the same stat bonus as any other profession. One thing I've noticed with on use trinkets and abilities is that I am never sure when is the best time to use it. Sometimes I hold out till it isn't viable or sometimes too early. You just don't need that headache.

I think the problem most people have with JC is that all the Hardcore people think that everyone is already fully gemmed in Queen Garnets, in reality it isn't true. Even a Blizzard Dev said recently that they see that not everyone is decked out in the new epic gems so they are going to hold out for a bit.

Unless you are a min/maxer the minor loss isn't that big a deal if you take JC. JC will still be the best profession once the new expansion rolls out.

[Téuntjûh]

This is, indeed, true for DPS. And to a lesser extent, healers.

However, BS & JC are still the top winners for tanks (excluding Bears) right now. BS & JC still offers maximum benefit for Mastery/Avoidance.

JC isnt worth anything anymore since we got the epic gems. Drop JC for an decent prof

[Oex]

No one thinks of it like that because for the profs that arent engine you have the stat as passive. So it's always there, unlike synapse springs which i use on cd. (macro'd to my judge) But, if I had bs as my 2nd it'd be an extra 100 str at all times. Not 480 that evens out to 80 over the time of the fight because of the up time and cd.

Sorry, not to be offending, but: Did you even read my post?

1st: NO if you would have choosen BS, you would not have 100str all the time.. you don't even got epic gems in all of your normal sockets.. als long as this is not the case you would just put 40str in the bonus sockets. (And you would need FULL epic gems.. else you could just put the epic gems to a normal socket and profit by the same bonus..)

2nd: My whole post is about aligning springs with CDs, Burstphases etc.. if ypou just macro it with every attack it really is the same way as flat statincrease...

:-(

---------- Post added 2012-02-10 at 04:39 PM ----------

So true. I have always preferred passive bonuses over on use bonuses. It is much more convenient and 1 less thing to keep track of. Even Trinkets, I'll go out of my way to get a passive Trinket regardless of it being a tad bit worse than an on use one. Your class already has enough CDs to keep track off, doubt anyone would want to keep track of a couple more.

Engineering also gives exactly the same stat bonus as any other profession. One thing I've noticed with on use trinkets and abilities is that I am never sure when is the best time to use it. Sometimes I hold out till it isn't viable or sometimes too early. You just don't need that headache.

I think the problem most people have with JC is that all the Hardcore people think that everyone is already fully gemmed in Queen Garnets, in reality it isn't true. Even a Blizzard Dev said recently that they see that not everyone is decked out in the new epic gems so they are going to hold out for a bit.

Unless you are a min/maxer the minor loss isn't that big a deal if you take JC. JC will still be the best profession once the new expansion rolls out.

You should really not join discussions like this if you don't care at all.. it's always the number of little things that sum up. Just go for whatever profession you want, alignes CDs with springs is a little number over flat 80 stat.. like it is to choose 80 [stat]-profession over skinning (80 crit)...like it is choosing skinning over mining (120 stam) like it it choosing mining over no profession (YES! Even stam is a very little DPS-increase, since eg. staying alive for 1 more Ultraxion-AE-Tick will let you cast 1 more spell..) like it is having no professions and all sockets filled with gem over having no profession and 1 empty socket.. AND SO ON!

There are a lot of ppl paying 5000 gold for an epic gem over a blue one (10 statpoints!) .. seems a bit stupid to waste that ton of gold (=farmtime?) instead of taking engineer into concern..

---------- Post added 2012-02-10 at 06:41 PM ----------

JC isnt worth anything anymore since we got the epic gems. Drop JC for an decent prof

Come on.. you can't be serious..

1. You are going for stam while beeing well under the complete combat table coverage.
2. You got Mining [=stam] (again: While beeing well under the complete combat table coverage..)
3. You reforge parry => dodge (once more: well under the complete combat table coverage)
4. You even reforge parry => dodge while your parry rating is a lot lower then your dodge rating is.

And like said (several times) before: As long as you are not socket full epic ("with the right gems", this is an addition just for you.. thought that would be common sense) JC ist still 100% worth it and like Radux (the guy you quotet) wrote: JC & BS are still the best professions for every Warrior and Pala (without complete combat table coverage) and for every DK with masteryheavy build.. only bears are out of this, because they want a mainstat (= agility) instead of the other mentioned tanks, that want secondary stats (mastery most of the time .. only granted by BS and JC).

Not only, that your char shows, that you should prolly put some more effort in learning your own specc, before you start giving other ppl. advices, the advices you give are only useable by high-end-tanks, that got full epic gems (the right ones!) and need to get stam, because they have the complete combat table coverage by just gear and enchants.

Thanks.

[Radux]

JC isnt worth anything anymore since we got the epic gems. Drop JC for an decent prof

You realize JC is only below other professions if you're fully equipped with epic gems. And even then, a majority of tanks are still gemming for Avoidance/Mastery (aside from Bears, again) -- so JC will still be more useful than one of the other professions. Even if that benefit is slightly less.

I'm still willing to bet a substantial amount of gold to say that not even a small amount of people have run into this (sub 5% of people).

[wynterlyn]

Sorry, not to be offending, but: Did you even read my post?

1st: NO if you would have choosen BS, you would not have 100str all the time.. you don't even got epic gems in all of your normal sockets.. als long as this is not the case you would just put 40str in the bonus sockets. (And you would need FULL epic gems.. else you could just put the epic gems to a normal socket and profit by the same bonus..)

2nd: My whole post is about aligning springs with CDs, Burstphases etc.. if ypou just macro it with every attack it really is the same way as flat statincrease...

:-(

---------- Post added 2012-02-10 at 04:39 PM ----------



You should really not join discussions like this if you don't care at all.. it's always the number of little things that sum up. Just go for whatever profession you want, alignes CDs with springs is a little number over flat 80 stat.. like it is to choose 80 [stat]-profession over skinning (80 crit)...like it is choosing skinning over mining (120 stam) like it it choosing mining over no profession (YES! Even stam is a very little DPS-increase, since eg. staying alive for 1 more Ultraxion-AE-Tick will let you cast 1 more spell..) like it is having no professions and all sockets filled with gem over having no profession and 1 empty socket.. AND SO ON!

There are a lot of ppl paying 5000 gold for an epic gem over a blue one (10 statpoints!) .. seems a bit stupid to waste that ton of gold (=farmtime?) instead of taking engineer into concern..

---------- Post added 2012-02-10 at 06:41 PM ----------



A.

To say that people are dropping 5000G on epic gems for 10+ stats obviously have different factors playing into it. People will always want the best if they can afford it even if they have no use for it. And it is purple for crying out loud. Even people that purely run LFR and LFD go out of their way to pick up the Epic Gems.

The only people that are asking to drop BS for JC are the Hardcore of the Hardcore whose only aim is to min/max and have a ton of gold just lying around to drop and level a profession again. Most of the min/maxers don't even level BS beyond 450 to get the profession bonus.

Infact just cause you prefer Engineering not everyone finds much use in it. Some people prefer to level a profession that helps them make gold and provides them with the minimum +80 stat. Infact BS and JC are probably the best 2 professions for tanks since no other profession allows you to socket 3 Mastery Gems. They could even be good professions for DPS/Healing classes whose primary secondary stats is Mastery.

And if you are talking about staying alive for 1 more sec to cast 1 more spell during Ultraxion, you were better off using a healing potion. Or your raid could have done a better job or your healers. I can pretty much guarantee you that if you actually play your class well and not slack the small rather insignificant damage bonus you going to get isn't going to make or break an encounter.

P.S I didn't say I didn't care. If you ain't willing to get into a constructive discussion you shouldn't bother posting. I often feel it is the theory crafters that are ruining the game for most and are actually giving Blizzard a hard time. They will freaking cry for even the smallest things 1-2 points here and there. Play the damn game to firstly enjoy it then worry about all the little things.

---------- Post added 2012-02-10 at 06:23 PM ----------

To be quite honest that I am not quite sure the reason for this thread only to prove your preference for Engineering as a profession over every other profession. Like I said some people are also looking to make quick gold and Engineering has a very niche market that they can target to make a profit and even that doesn't have returning customers. So people take everything into consideration before they get into Engineering.

Most people that I know who have taken Engineering are also the ones that dabble into PVP and it therefore serves them an added bonus.

But honestly if you are really going to be theory crafting every singe Damage number and think that it is going to make or break a fight, your entire raid needs to be doing a better job the entire of the fight.

This often reminds me of those teams that get relegated in the EPL to the Championship on the last day of the season and the managers bitch about referee decisions going against them in that final game of the season. You know maybe if you had won the home game in Jan instead of throwing it away at the 95th minute you would have probably stayed up.

[Loop]

Glory..what?
Worst proffesion ever.

Springs - cant be used with "On Use" trinkets, which for example for most classes are very important.
Other toys can backfire and kill you.


I loved this proff in Wotlk, but in Cata i dropped it, just it isnt worth it.
Not to wear " On use" trinkets cuz of springs so i can get my full 80+ benefit, no ty.

[Shaderas]

Did you read my 0,5 point at the end? How many DDs are there will full (optimal!) epic gems? As long as you got at least 3 blue gems, JC still providing 81 [stat].

Depends, if you are serious about progression and your guild is too, Blacksmithing (and you are pretty advance in terms of progression). There aren't a lot, but there are some people with full epic gems.

[Hoticehunter]

Sorry, not to be offending, but: Did you even read my post?

Welcome to the internet, I can see that you're new around here. Enjoy your stay, and try not to take what people say too seriously.

You're not going to get anywhere debating with most people here about this. Most people are content with being average. The passive boost is ideal for them. Not everyone feels like mathing out whether they can get more than an average of +80 stat out engineering by using synergy with other cooldowns and/or boss debuffs. And that's fine. You made your point of "If people are smart and good players, you can get more than the +80 out of engineering, so it's not right that engineering is so undervalued." People will either read, or they wont.

[Darkfriend]

Did you read my 0,5 point at the end? How many DDs are there will full (optimal!) epic gems? As long as you got at least 3 blue gems, JC still providing 81 [stat].

Any one who is willing to min/max will have full epics, OFC. People who actually raid enough to get them. That's the main flaw in your arguement. True, untill you have full epic gems its not a loss. But once you do it is.

Also, JC isn't even good for pally tanks. They can reach CTC cap w/o needing the 3 extra mastery gems, and instead they socket stamina.

[Penguirrel]

I took engineering for it's fun aspects and money making. The stat buff is just a bonus.

[Yells]

Sorry, not to be offending, but: Did you even read my post?

1st: NO if you would have choosen BS, you would not have 100str all the time.. you don't even got epic gems in all of your normal sockets.. als long as this is not the case you would just put 40str in the bonus sockets. (And you would need FULL epic gems.. else you could just put the epic gems to a normal socket and profit by the same bonus..)

2nd: My whole post is about aligning springs with CDs, Burstphases etc.. if ypou just macro it with every attack it really is the same way as flat statincrease...

:-(

---------- Post added 2012-02-10 at 04:39 PM ----------



You should really not join discussions like this if you don't care at all.. it's always the number of little things that sum up. Just go for whatever profession you want, alignes CDs with springs is a little number over flat 80 stat.. like it is to choose 80 [stat]-profession over skinning (80 crit)...like it is choosing skinning over mining (120 stam) like it it choosing mining over no profession (YES! Even stam is a very little DPS-increase, since eg. staying alive for 1 more Ultraxion-AE-Tick will let you cast 1 more spell..) like it is having no professions and all sockets filled with gem over having no profession and 1 empty socket.. AND SO ON!

There are a lot of ppl paying 5000 gold for an epic gem over a blue one (10 statpoints!) .. seems a bit stupid to waste that ton of gold (=farmtime?) instead of taking engineer into concern..

---------- Post added 2012-02-10 at 06:41 PM ----------



Come on.. you can't be serious..

1. You are going for stam while beeing well under the complete combat table coverage.
2. You got Mining [=stam] (again: While beeing well under the complete combat table coverage..)
3. You reforge parry => dodge (once more: well under the complete combat table coverage)
4. You even reforge parry => dodge while your parry rating is a lot lower then your dodge rating is.

And like said (several times) before: As long as you are not socket full epic ("with the right gems", this is an addition just for you.. thought that would be common sense) JC ist still 100% worth it and like Radux (the guy you quotet) wrote: JC & BS are still the best professions for every Warrior and Pala (without complete combat table coverage) and for every DK with masteryheavy build.. only bears are out of this, because they want a mainstat (= agility) instead of the other mentioned tanks, that want secondary stats (mastery most of the time .. only granted by BS and JC).

Not only, that your char shows, that you should prolly put some more effort in learning your own specc, before you start giving other ppl. advices, the advices you give are only useable by high-end-tanks, that got full epic gems (the right ones!) and need to get stam, because they have the complete combat table coverage by just gear and enchants.

Thanks.

And if you take a look at MY gear you'll see there are 3 items without epic gems. Those 3 will be upgraded as soon as the better item drops. A 384 chest, my bracers from morchock and my weapon. I have the gems in my bank bro, if I had bs on this toon I'd be using a 50 in my gloves and as soon as my 410's drop 2 in those. And 480 str in burn phases is not the HUGE bump you think it is. Say 2k str from rotting skull that's a bump worth saving for cd's but if you save synapse springs for just burn phases IT'S A WASTE!

[ThewF]

Engineering is largely useless because it's put on cooldown during specific main-stat enhancing effects. Before it was put on cooldown I enjoyed my Engineering, now it is largely useless.

[Makoblade]

Did you read my 0,5 point at the end? How many DDs are there will full (optimal!) epic gems? As long as you got at least 3 blue gems, JC still providing 81 [stat].

It's completely reasonable to have full epic gems at this point, for anyone interested in maximizing their performance.

[invader]

I took engineering for it's fun aspects and money making. The stat buff is just a bonus.

engi for money makin?? you jokin right?? engi is the worst prof EVER for makin any gold... but the best prof EVER for funs
i got engi on my feral, synapse mac'd to enrage and tf (i usually have 1 use trink and 1 proc trink for kitty so i can macro synapse and the on use trink to TF and have a sweet buff every 30 secs or so ;p),
i find engi rather awesome tbh.. i use tons of bombs for aoe, they do quite a fair bit of dmg too i might add. shield on belt (or other fun stuffs, decoy is fun on a boss ;p), cloak parachute, the only thing i dont like bout engi is if i use the highpowered bolt gun on mobs it takes u outta bear/kitty nvm tho, but i find engi far more suitable for my bear than mah kitty tbh... leather workin is my other prof..

ENGI FTW !!!

[Nodata]

Marginally off-topic, but I just remembered how on our first kill of Yogg-Saron 0 guardian, I (bear) survived for the last 5 seconds with ALL adds after me with a simple "rocket-boots -> get to the other end of the room."

I get it, once every four or five times, it backfires. You know what? First down on Halfus HM, still half in blues, same deal. Now I read and understand maths. And I still think rocket boots are borderline cheating. You can have any profession and bicker over 10 or 20 or 40 agility... Or you can pick engineering and enjoy one of the most broken pieces of design since TBC.

(this just in reply to "it's cool for dps, but not for tanks")

[Mizzet]

And that's why as a Mage, Engineering was a very obvious choice when it came to professions. I'm partly an Engineer for the toys but it's nice having it so very useful in practical matters of DPS as well. Also the trinkets I'm using this tier (WoU and IotCM) don't have any activated cooldowns which would share a non use cd with Synapse Springs.

Also Nitro Boosts, additional profession perk that also arguably improves DPS depending on the nature of the fight. Backfires I don't consider a serious drawback as they happen a minority of the time and are trivial to deal with.

[invader]

Also Nitro Boosts, additional profession perk that also arguably improves DPS depending on the nature of the fight. Backfires I don't consider a serious drawback as they happen a minority of the time and are trivial to deal with.

theyre trivial until your hunter dies from rocket fuel leak on P4 of rag racin round tryin to douse flames lol, it happened to him a couple of times within a few tries and he got banned by the RL from using em lol cos it wiped us on those times ;p had to make do with my drums of speed instead.. fun times

[Illiterate]

As a prot warrior, I don't have that many CDs to keep me alive in tight situations, so having spinal healing injector on 1 min and the grounded plasma shield is very nice

[waat]

Glory..what?
Worst proffesion ever.

Springs - cant be used with "On Use" trinkets, which for example for most classes are very important.
Other toys can backfire and kill you.


I loved this proff in Wotlk, but in Cata i dropped it, just it isnt worth it.
Not to wear " On use" trinkets cuz of springs so i can get my full 80+ benefit, no ty.

On use trinkets suck this tier anyway for the vast majority of specs. viva la engineering!