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  1. #1
    Immortal Bombkirby's Avatar
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    Are Junglers Required?

    Okay so I'm still learning the LoL ropes and stuff (some of the more obscure terms make me go "lolwut??") but anyways to my point...

    Yesterday I was playing a normal match like any other day. We had a jungler and the other team did not. Our Wukong said he'd solo top. But when we began the match he was shocked to see two people in top lane on the enemy team. He started telling us that this 2v1 in top wasn't fair. I told him I see 2v1 in top all the time, but he told me in ranked games its always 1v1 in top lane because every good team has a jungler.

    So...my question still stands. Are Junglers required at high levels of play? Or was he just rambling on about nonsense?

  2. #2
    Being outnumbered on the top lane is not a matter of fairness. Having a jungler is an advantage, because you have 2 solo lanes and hence, get a level advantage. Earlier ult, earlier level 5 bread-and-butter-skill and so on. Furthermore, a jungler poses a constant threat to all enemy lanes, making them remember that they probably cannot take immense risk for the fear of retaliation through the jungler.
    Bottom line: A jungler gives...
    - A level advantage
    - A tactical element (enemy paranoia, presence where it is needed, ambush enemies and outnumber them in a moment)

    Initially, you will be forced to be very passive in a 1v2 situation on top lane, because their harass and CC will be much stronger and you will only be able to take action while under your tower. But having the jungler engage them a few times with you, you can easily kill them thanks to your level and item advantage (you are able to snowball better, since you collect top lane gold on a single champion) and then, deal with them on your own.
    If the enemy lacks a jungler, it means a free additional blue and red buff. Your mid AP carry will love you and your AD carry / jungler / top lane as well.

    In the end, a jungler is not a necessity in itself, but a lot of players adhere to the current, intended meta game and once you have figured out how to deal with a double damage top lane and get better and better, you will be rather relieved in most cases.
    True, but the difference is that in GTA3 you're only shooting (and robbing, murdering, having sex with, etc) pixels. In WOW you get the pleasure of dealing with some of the most despicable human behaviour you'll ever witness.

  3. #3
    Yes they are.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by quosk1867 View Post
    Yes they are.
    No, they are not.

    It's a (pro) gaming strategy.

  5. #5
    Required? No.

    Certainly Recommended? Yes.

    Stressful to play as, and against? You're damn right.

  6. #6
    Field Marshal
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    Its simply gimping yourself to not use a jungler.

    Its like adding an extra-lane(extra xp and money) and easier ganks ( Since they cant track your lane)

    I cant stress enough the benefits of a jungler Go on and learn the way of the jungle.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Rawer View Post
    No, they are not.

    It's a (pro) gaming strategy.
    He asked about at high levels of play. Junglers are needed at high levels of play.

  8. #8
    Immortal Bombkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marken View Post
    I cant stress enough the benefits of a jungler Go on and learn the way of the jungle.
    I already have actually. One of my main champs is Jungle Skarner.

    I was just wondering if junglers were just required to have in higher levels of play... like do all tournament matches have them?

    On the other hand... certainly there has to be some kind of advantage to not using one. I'd imagine they lose their use with proper use of wards, or stealing jungle creeps/buffs.

    Quote Originally Posted by quosk1867 View Post
    He asked about at high levels of play. Junglers are needed at high levels of play.
    Correct. I did ask that.

  9. #9
    Moderator Isrozzis's Avatar
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    In the current metagame they are needed. And I think they will always be needed.

    Even if neither jungler gets any ganks off correctly, the fact that they are jungling benefits your team. If you have a 2v2 top, and a 2v2 bottom, that's two lanes were experience is split between two champions (assuming the support isn't sitting out of exp range on purpose, though I haven't really seen that lately) meaning that your team will not get levels as fast. But if you have someone jungling, the jungler and the solo top lane get experience at a faster rate than if they had both been in a lane.

    It also allows the solo top to farm more, since they aren't competing with anyone. And some junglers (like amumu or malphite) which would normally not get any farm since they are tanks, can now get a decent amount of farm in the jungle and get their items a little faster.

    So technically a jungler isn't required, but your team is at a disadvantage if the other team has one and you don't.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Bombkirby View Post
    I already have actually. One of my main champs is Jungle Skarner.

    I was just wondering if junglers were just required to have in higher levels of play... like do all tournament matches have them?

    On the other hand... certainly there has to be some kind of advantage to not using one. I'd imagine they lose their use with proper use of wards, or stealing jungle creeps/buffs.



    Correct. I did ask that.
    Every tournament match has them without exceptions. I've played about 550 ranked matches in the 1200-1600 elo bracket and have only seen one game without a jungler. I had luckily picked sion. I just went solo top sat under tower and used my shield to absorb harrass. They lost each and every team fight. We had free dragons all game and our mid had %100 uptime of blue.
    Signature by Tacy :]

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Bombkirby View Post
    So...my question still stands. Are Junglers required at high levels of play? Or was he just rambling on about nonsense?
    They are not required. Just often played as such at higher levels of play. For normals/unranked, not so much.

    The point of a jungler is to maximize resources on the map for all lanes. When played well the impact is dramatic. More so the greater the amount of communication among the team.

    Having a bad jungler while the other team has 2v1 top in a normal/solo game will usually be a disaster. Due to lower skill of play and lack of robust real time communication in normals/solo queue.

    But if you even have 1 other partner with vent/skype, you guys will wreck the team with no jungler. As the enemy are using their resources poorly.

  12. #12
    Mechagnome FoShizzleMyGrizzle's Avatar
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    Junglers are required in Ranked low-high elo yes, but normals? Nah, its useful if you have a strong top soloer like Irelia or something with good sustain and harras etc.
    You should duoqueue with a jungler (friend etc, IF hes good).
    Tho, lowlvl jungling CAN be good for ganks and enemy paranoia (not getting wards cus their lowlvls.) etc etc !
    I personally play as a jungler / top soloer in ranked, which is like a 50/50% win rate, and if the enemy team dosnt have wards, flash or any kind of an escape mechanism, they gave away firstblood / a kill.
    But hey, jungling is easy, farming is easy, ganking COULD be easy !
    The element of suprise is huge and your enemy can panic and you'll force a summoner spell, which is awesome.
    you might say that im talking crap atm, but Im talking from experience (yes which was horrible 80% of the time)...
    but, try jungling and learn it ! Awesome and fun if you get off good ganks etc. glhf
    What server are you on anyway?^^

  13. #13
    Immortal Bombkirby's Avatar
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    Okay thanks for the replies guys. When I start doing ranked games with my friends when they hit lv 30, I'll keep all this in mind.

  14. #14
    in short, yes. it splits the farm up so that four people can basically get all the CS from their lanes. top, mid, and carry bot get all the CS from those lanes while the junger gets all the jungle creeps. if you have two top lane then you effectively only have the farm of three people in your game. that's a whole player short. that doesn't even counter in all of the possible kills from successful ganks.

  15. #15
    Mechagnome FoShizzleMyGrizzle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bombkirby View Post
    Okay thanks for the replies guys. When I start doing ranked games with my friends when they hit lv 30, I'll keep all this in mind.
    Just...dont do ranked when you get to lvl 30 after like 1 hr at 30...read up on some guides how to AVOID, to loose and get into elohell (1-1.3k elo).

  16. #16
    I actually enjoy not having a jungler:

    Instead of just 1 champion being able to gank, you can have someone from top, someone from bottom, or both go around and gank when needed. That's a pool of 4 champions to choose from, changing up game pace, and using ad/ap affectively depending on the enemy. And this can all be done while preventing top/bottom lanes getting pushed in. Plus, always or usually having 2 people up top and bottom is a little breathing room from enemy ganks.

  17. #17
    Generally speaking, a jungler should always be more of a benefit to the team than a 2nd player in top lane. This is because he makes use of the experience and gold found in the jungle, facilitates the lanes by ganking or harassing, provides map and buffs control, and allows the top laner to get more experience.
    However jungling has one major flaw, you cant carry a losing lane. Period. If your mid, for example, is losing, chances are the enemy mid is a better player and is therefore more careful at not getting ganked than your mid is. Meaning that (if you're, say, blue team and your mid is losing) most of the times it's actually easier for the purple jungler to gank the blue mid than vice versa. So basicly whether you do your job as a jungler or not depends on how good your teammates are, which is not the case with laning carries, and is what makes jungling very frustrating and unpopular.
    That said, even when the lanes are equal, there are many occasions on which i wish i went top instead of jungle. When the enemy team doesnt have a jungler, for example, they are 90% likely to get get fed on your solotop and destroy the lane. And unless your solotop has some retarded sustain or the enemies have little harass, you cant do sh*t about it because your solotop will always be turret-hugging at 30% health. At that point, as the only jungler in the game, you cant even decide whether you should just farm both jungles or try helping mid or bot, either way by lategame the enemies will have 2 champions that are each about 3 times stronger than your solotop. OR, this entire paragraph could just be my luck that i never get decent people on my team, completely plausible.

    Feel free to PM me about any question you might have regarding LoL.
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  18. #18
    Roll double support :P but a manahungry champion top with soraka and a strong ad bot with sona. Enjoy the healing at team fights :P

  19. #19
    Define "required".

    If you mean to have a good chance of winning, then yes. If you mean to have any chance of winning at all, then no.

    Without a jungle, your top laner, who is usually someone who excels at going solo, doesn't get nearly as much farm and levels, meaning they are significantly hindered. If the enemy has a solo top, sure you can deny them a bit, but they will just sit at their tower and farm because even just last hitting, two people will push much harder than one. Also leaves you wide open for ganks.

  20. #20
    The main problem I'm seeing in this thread is that people have different definitions of 'required'.

    Are they absolutely required, meaning you will always lose if you don't? NO.

    Are they highly recommended and can make games? YES.

    Can you still do 'okay' without one? Sure, but really, get a jungler, it'll save you so much in the end.

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