MM Madness Advice

[Thorodian]

I am looking to the MM community for advice on improving my performance on Madness 10 man. I will be brief so as to not waste any ones time.

I am a 7/31/3 (Pathing) 394 ilvl MM hunter using 1235 haste plateu (1251 to be exact). I favor mastery over haste. Using Starcatcher and Unchaining LFR trinks and 4 piece tier 13 (using Zeherah's helm as I dont have tier 397 helm to us emy BIS Morchok gloves yet.)

I am BS/JC with both extra sockets, all 3 JC agi gems, and fully epic gemmed out (minus 2 +40's).

I use a CS > SS x 2 > AS x 3 (4 with haste proc from tier or trink) > SS x 2 rotation unhasted and AiS spam > SS pairs when hasted (Rapid Fire pairs / Hero / 20% Haste buff during madness). I am using my RF pairs off CD usually on Corruptions on each platform. I am double potting (1 pre pull and 1 for the 4th platforms Corruption). I am landing explosive traps on all 4 sets of Hemorage adds and Multi Shot spamming all Hemorage adds and the first 2 platforms small tentacles.

We are using the following raid comp (2 tank 2 heal):

2 Guardian Tanks
1 Fury Warrior
1 MM Hunter (me)
1 SV Hunter
1 Fire Mage
1 Arcane Mage
1 Shadow Priest
1 Resto Shaman
1 Resto Druid

Our platform order is 3 1 2 4 (portal platform, far left, 1 to the right, far right).

We are popping hero for first Corruption and saving second hero for P2.

I have little to no lag at all, taking moments here and there to call things out in vent as I am also the raid leader, and I feel as if I am spot on with my rotation and mechanics throughout the encounter. Yet I am only averaging roughly 42-48K DPS.

Now...I know that's bad. So please don't waste my or your time with trolling me. I do that to myself every time we wipe on the encounter. What I need is knowledgeable advice to help me improve.

Thanks for your time in advance!

[eschatological]

A great deal of damage on Madness comes from spellweave, and MM isn't exactly the best spec for proccing spellweave, especially with a SV hunter, fire mage, and spriest in your raid. Even an arcane mage can probably arcane explosion more freely than you can MS.

A mastery heavy build is probably good for Madness seeing as you have haste for all but the third platform and should be able to Aimed Shot focus dump as the only real movement is between platforms. A log would probably be more helpful. You could also inflate your numbers artificially by RF/Readi/RF on the tentacle, and getting time in Cataclysm under RF, but if you're destroying the tentacle in time, I don't think that would necessarily be worth it (to delay RF that long).

IOW, tl;dr: if you're downing the boss, I wouldn't be too concerned. If DPS is pushing you against the enrage, or you're not beating the Cataclysm timer, I (and everyone else) would probably want to see a log before making any judgments.

Edited to add: I just read your rotation, and see you favor an AS dump outside of unhasted CDs because of your mastery heavy build. Yellow platform gives you something like 20% haste, so even in a mastery heavy build you should probably be using a CS-SSx4-AiSx2 rotation (not in that order, just the number of shots you'd fit in the 9 second cycle) and only use AS to proc 4pc when it's off CD. This doesn't apply to the fourth platform, I suppose, but you should have 30 seconds of RF and 15 of Chrono for that platform anyways under which you Aimed shot dump.

[Aertea]

What pets are you using? It looks like your raid makeup is missing Bleed, Spell Damage and Physical Damage debuffs. Are you guys properly covering them?

Also, set traps for the bloods. Snake and Freezing can proc spellweaving as far as I know.

And 45k isn't bad. We run with 5dps pulling between 40k and 50k and still beat the enrage timer by a solid amount.

[Herecius]

42-48k really isn't bad, if you guys are hitting the enrage, it's not because you aren't doing enough DPS. Snake trap can help you get more spellweave procs though you've got an excellent aoe comp, so needing even more shouldn't be too much of an issue, and your platform order is fine.

I strongly suspect that you aren't the issue you're wiping, but escatological summed up most of the things that will help you personally for the most. Worth noting that deterrence works to totally block the elementium bolt damage, so that helps the healers on the fourth platform as well.

Two hunters would want to use a wind serpent and a ravager for debuffs, by the way.

[Gheld]

To be honest I would have to suggest having an Offspec other than MM to use for Madness, because haste capping kills you, especially if you have tier 13(4) you'll be way over cap numerous times throughout the fight. As somebody mentioned, you are missing bleed, 8% spell damage and 4% physical damage. All of which are absolutely paramount for MM to perform. If you aren't hitting the enrage I would honestly suggest 3 healing that fight.

But honestly, I used to have MM/BM as my specs but because of MM's haste issues on that fight I rerolled the MM to Surv, which made me a sad Panda because it was the spec with which I always had the most fun. My overall damage as Surv on that fight is the highest, but I usually go BM for the fight because when I'm reviewing meters after a madness pull to judge performance I'm looking at who's doing the best damage to important target swaps and I find BM tends to perform the best on elementium bolt and blistering tentacles.

But yeah, biggest improvement you could look to is having a better buff comp. for the raid.

As MM your damage is probably about 60% physical 40% magic. So 4% physical damage debuff is 2.4% overall damage increase. 8% magic debuff is an additiona 3.2% overall damage increase. Without bleed debuff piercing shots is probably doing about 5-10% of your damage, so if we average it in the middle at 7.5% bleed debuff would be 2.25% extra overall damage.

42-48K on normal madness is pretty good so I wouldn't beat yourself up over it. Like I said, find a way to work those 3 debuffs into your raid and you'll easily enjoy nearly an 8% overall damage increase.

[Thorodian]

As somebody mentioned, you are missing bleed, 8% spell damage and 4% physical damage. All of which are absolutely paramount for MM to perform.

As MM your damage is probably about 60% physical 40% magic. So 4% physical damage debuff is 2.4% overall damage increase. 8% magic debuff is an additiona 3.2% overall damage increase. Without bleed debuff piercing shots is probably doing about 5-10% of your damage, so if we average it in the middle at 7.5% bleed debuff would be 2.25% extra overall damage.

42-48K on normal madness is pretty good so I wouldn't beat yourself up over it. Like I said, find a way to work those 3 debuffs into your raid and you'll easily enjoy nearly an 8% overall damage increase.

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't we getting the 30% bleed debuff from our feral tank(s)?

[Gheld]

I think mangle is kitty only, but my druid is resto/boomkin so dont quote me on that.

[Wolfmother]

kick the surv, get something else and you go surv = win

[Thorodian]

Herecius, where did you have your forum signature created. Its very simplistic, clean, and I love the close up of the toon its self. Would love to have one of my own that looks similar. Can you point me in the right direction?

---------- Post added 2012-02-10 at 03:04 PM ----------

I just logged my Guardian Druid to check into the 30% bleed debuff. Guardian mangle does indeed apply the 30% bleed debuff to the target meaning all we need to do is use me and the other hunters pet to obtain the 4% physical damage and 8% magical damage debuffs. I know the raptor which i already have gives the 4% physical damage debuff. Which pet is it that provide the 8% magical debuff again?

[Jitzu]

let warrior go arms, use 1 5% crit pet and 1 8% spell dmg taken pet, let shaman use melee haste totem since spriest covers the 5% spell haste. the warrior covers str and agi buff.
You can get like every raid-buff ingame with your setup, and i didnt even include the tanks.
raidcomp.mmo-champion .com/?c=006soab89i000000000000000000000000000000

Average dps taken from logs of 2000 MM hunters is roughly 38k so you aint doing bad, now thats from 2k logs, top 100 of those 2k average around 47k.
Your dps aint that bad, considiring MM is the second best hunter specc atm
raidbots .com/dpsbot/Madness_of_Deathwing/10N/all/14/60/default/

Top ranked MM hunters:
worldoflogs .com/rankings/players/Dragon_Soul/Madness_of_Deathwing/10N/Marksmanship_Hunter/

Cant post links remove " " before ".com"

And if your doing anything wrong, it's really hard to help without any logs

[jax]

Easy... quit playing the worst spec for the fight and go SV... /derp

With the nerf 1 tank 2 healing it is also the only way to go...

[eschatological]

I think raptors give sunder armor, not 4% physical damage. You want a ravager for 4% physical damage (frost DKs and combat rogues also provide this), and a wind serpent for 8% magical damage (warlocks and boomkins provide this).