Dev Watercooler -- The Role of Role, Blizzard Q4 2011 Conference Call Reminder

[stuck4cash]

Model Six - Drop redundant specs.Mages, rogues, hunters and warlocks now get 1 spec (maybe 2 for hunters if they want to go back to melee dps). You pick the spells you should use based on the fight and get everything available to you.It too has it's drawbacks and people would feel that have less choice but really, your choice is in the class you play, not the spec.

[Asatru]

Model Six - Drop redundant specs.Mages, rogues, hunters and warlocks now get 1 spec (maybe 2 for hunters if they want to go back to melee dps). You pick the spells you should use based on the fight and get everything available to you.It too has it's drawbacks and people would feel that have less choice but really, your choice is in the class you play, not the spec.

Except for the fact that Hunters are losing their Melee Weapon in MoP.

[morph4037]

You do realize that Shamans were originally designed to be a hybrid tank class right? Stoneclaw Totem, Rockbiter weapon and defense on Mail gear. Blizzard, however, abandoned this thought process in order to prevent raiding/5man loot tables from being any more bloated than they were already.

Yes I am well aware they were gimmicky OT's at best. And I'm very glad they decided not to invest anymore time into it after Vanilla.

[morph4037]

Again, you fail to make any argument whatsoever against it.

Your ability to state the obvious is truly astounding.

[Mormolyce]

All you people saying Ghostcrawler doesn't know what he's doing - you've totally missed the point of the Dev watercooler. It's not Moses coming down from the mountain to proclaim to the people the words of God from stone tablets. It's a window into the thoughts and discussions the design team have about the direction of the game and their objectives with each gameplay element. You know, like a watercooler discussion? The whole point is he's talking about possibilities and thoughts rather than laying down a final direction that they've decided on.

As such it's a valuable insight, I always find them very interesting. It also shows that they think about these issues that are a big part of quality of life for us players, and when you read them you realise they're considering solutions to this, from the minor to the dramatic. So when they make big announcements like the talent revamp and so on that are so controversial, you can follow their reasoning and see WHY they think it's necessary (and agree or disagree/rage up the forums/QQ like crazy as is your wont).

I thought it was a well thought-out discussion of an issue that I've thought of as well while playing the game, and I'm sure a lot of other players have too. It's especially highlighted with SWTOR coming out with a highly hybridised class makeup, and all the relevant pros and cons.

[Shadzta]

Well i went to post my 2 cents on the official forums but because I'm no longer a subscriber i can't post on their forums. That in itself is bullshit in my opinion. I understand its to stop trolls etc etc. However surely there is a way to distinguish between how long someone has been unsubscribed or how their forum account is in good standing or something to allow those still interested in the game but don't want to sub back just to post -_-.

Anyway personally I'm really sincerely feeling number 5. Even if we have to limit down some specs etc. So warriors melee dps tank and thats it. Hell I'm sure you could give warriors a ranged berserker spec. Kinda like troll warlord from back in Dota. Throwing axe or something similar. Long story short i believe we are in a stage where the conventional MMO design is stale. Needs to be shaken up. It almost feels like change with the times or die. Soon there will be a game that gets it "right" . As in is far better than anything else on the market but obviously still with inherent flaws from varying opinions. SW:TOR made its mark. While it failed in a lot of ways it did some good. Personally I'm finger crossing that we'll see Guild Wars 2 really dent the MMO populace. WoW has to adapt or die.

[Kiasari]

GC comes off as very intuitive and intelligent in this...I welcome it. I even sense some humbleness. Please please please let this be a sign of things to come... don't punish me or make me look stupid for having faith, Blizzard. :\

[Deleted]

I want a fat kungfu panda with every spell in the game ! And i will raid with my pokemon pets all day long !! .. fuck this game

[morph4037]

If you're too stupid to formulate an argument, don't bother replying with diversionary tactics or straw man arguments to avoid having to support your retarded points.

I'm just stating my opinion not trying to sway anyone to my views, or make any "retarded points" as you call them. However, continue on with your trolling since it's apparent that's what you enjoy.

[Korgoth]

Model 4 by far is the best model. It makes balancing work well in pvp, and pve by reducing the number of specs in both. As he mentions multiple specs of the same role does not work well in pve due to the fact that 1 will always be better, even if by a little bit, and players will flock to it, making the other one well pointless. In PvP they have shown they dont have the brain power or the talent or the desire to balance all the specs for it, so going back to a 10 spec system will greatly ease balancing to the point that maybe they can do it, especially if they fire GC so they can balance mages and rogues.The only problem with model 4 is pures having a "useless" spec. Well the truth is that spec is useless now anyway. For pures maybe give them 1 pvp spec and 2 pve, with one pve spec aimed more for aoe and one for single target, and they dual spec switch it mid instance depending on the fight.

[Draxz]

My bet is they won"t show us Diablo 3 or MoP till their "Annual Pass" deal is finished or close to finished, so they can reap their money with less dropouts from subscription. This last patch isn't enough to keep us till september guys...

[Deleted]

I think there are a few things that they're going to have to address with the talents, and at this late hour here's one example:

PvE/PvP

For certain classes in particular (Eg/ Ret paladins, hybrids and so on), they have to carry the burden of having only one spec for each task, which means inevitably having to sacrifice some talent points that some other classes might get to use for beneficial spells/effects in PvE, for PvP effects purely because they have no other choice (Eg/ Sacred Shield being on all Ret Paladin builds despite being a skill that should never even have to be procced if all goes well in PvE).

On the same token, pure classes have suffered greatly due to the homogenisation; it used to be the case that Hybrids could do every job okay, and pures (namely/only dps for that matter), did their job best, because it's the only job they had. What complicates this now is things like LFD/LFR and so on, where hybrids can do just as good if not better than pure DPS (Warlocks being morbidly clunky/difficult at the moment to name but one example), as well as having access to other much more beneficial roles (Tanks/healers always being in demand, getting instant queues etc), which is a luxury that pure DPS do not have. Blizzard said their idea for Cata was to "bring the player, not the class", and yet it remained the case of "bring the class, not the player", which to be frank is something I don't think they'll escape. I would personally see their homogenisation efforts scrapped in favour of making classes unique/special again, but whatever I think, they're going to need to find a solution. Seperate PvE/PvP talent trees would be a very easy fix in my opinion.

[Deleted]

/slap

Really terrible idea.

Look up the name "Sharicasmi" on Youtube, or "shaman tank", for that matter.

I'm sure he'd like a word or two with you.

[morph4037]

Look up the name "Sharicasmi" on Youtube, or "shaman tank", for that matter.

I'm sure he'd like a word or two with you.

I've seen some of his vids. It's just how I feel and trying not to debate it one way or another lol. *shrug* :P

[Eleveneleven]

The simple matter is that there isn't really anything they can do. That's why I'm eager to play GW2. Where you no longer have to have the triad in order to group.

[Kaleredar]

I'm liking model four and model one the most... However, as GC pointed out in model four... if you DO make a "best" PvP and "best" PvE spec, what is the third spec for pure classes? A flavor spec? Is it to talent trees what Engineering is to professions... developers give it some love and attention at the beginning of any given expansion but just forget about it? Is it the "trap spec" that looks appealing but ultimately does nothing but gimp your performance? While many people here might like the notion of a trap spec that helps them identify new players so they can slaughter them more easily, it's likely not in the designer's best interest to do design one spec to be completely ignored. Or do they just eliminate the third spec?

At the same time, many players don't want to feel pigeonholed into "this is your spec, use it or you fail." Does that require no consideration?

[ShimmerSwirl]

Did I read that wrong or did blizzard actually just say that theorycrafting is fun? Glove Romney has a new challenger for his crown of flip flop king

[Vesci]

We don’t make many raid or dungeon encounters these days where DPS specs can just stand in one place and burn down a boss.

This quote from GC proves that not only does he not play WoW, he isn't even helping design it anymore. How out of touch can you be and still be allowed to talk publicly?

[Bombkirby]

This quote from GC proves that not only does he not play WoW, he isn't even helping design it anymore. How out of touch can you be and still be allowed to talk publicly?

Why? Seems pretty true. Back in the day probably 80% of raid bosses were just tank and spank. Although some bosses like Thaddius proved to involve lots of running around.

[Biggiej]

Why? Seems pretty true. Back in the day probably 80% of raid bosses were just tank and spank. Although some bosses like Thaddius proved to involve lots of running around.

If you were there, you would know, that is untrue.