Dev Watercooler -- The Role of Role, Blizzard Q4 2011 Conference Call Reminder

[Jackkernaut]

I think blizzard should make some sort of 'arcane warrior' spec which mean it can swich between Range/Melee in the middle of the fight without respecing (it means mages can melee and tanks can switch to DPS like feral druids only with different skills). It not make sense that some classes are severely hurt in term of DPS because of a specific raid design.

[lilbuddhaman]

You're so all knowning please link sources of this confirmation

The last few years of patch notes. Perhaps you can brush up on your reading comprehension skills and see I made no claims that this ABSOLUTELY CONFIRMED 100%. It's theory based off what has happened in the past, and what is continuing to happen. Have you not seen the massive amount of homogenization that has occurred since LK ? Since BC ? (Who am I kidding, you probably never even set foot in BC areas let alone played during those days).

[Ghul]

just let blizzard do what they wanna do... they have grown to what they are today without your help, so they can keep going without it either ~~

[lilbuddhaman]

No change in subs from Q3 to Q4, from conf. call.

[Rigrot]

The only tank and spank fights in Cata was Ultra and almost Ping Pong Champion. Patchwerk, Razuvious, Gothik, Lotheb and Gluth the DPS did not have to move, though that was an old vanilla instance redone. Vanilla had plenty of flights the dps did nothing but focus fire the boss. Blizz has done a good job at requiring moment in boss fights especially in 5 mans

[Pasture]

I got that impression too. While reading on and on I literally said to myself: "Ghostcrawler just has no idea what he wants to do with WoW anymore." He's lost all focus entirely.

He knows exactly which one he'd prefer to focus on. He's pitching himself as indifferent / equally bemused to appear neutral. I feel like option 4 was put in their specifically to gauge community reaction.

[Mormolyce]

Model 4 is highly controversial and would likely alienate a LOT of players. Hell remember the QQ when they decided DKs would only have one tanking tree? Multiply that by 30.

It's elegant from a gameplay perspective, but it also makes elements of the game kind of absurd. Rogue tanks? Warlock healers? I mean, that's silly.

Also, people seem to be suggesting making every DPS class able to tank, probably because this seems less of a stretch than making Hunter and Rogue healers. Bear in mind that tank slots are quite limited in the game - 2 per 10m raid and STILL ONLY 2 per 25m raid (Blizzard hasn't made a true 3-tank fight in a long time now). Hell a lot of fights can be 1-tanked. Being able to spec tank really wouldn't help a lot, in my experience the game desperately needs more healers.

[blackwaltz7]

Sounds to me like it's more along the lines of you wanting an automatic raid slot on your Priest rather than having to actually be good enough to earn it.

i don't actually have a priest but i believe that's how it should be. i don't care how good of a - for argument's sake - rogue i am. if the fight they're going into doesn't require what my class can do, i should be left out. end of story. other wise there is NO POINT in having classes

[Ealyssa]

Can't stop dreaming of an archery specced warrior now. It seams that model 5 is the GW2 model. And it attract me alot.

Rogue tanks? Warlock healers? I mean, that's silly.

Silly ? It sounds awesome for me. I like wow how it is now (even if I only play "hybrids", can't stand with a class locked in one role.) but I would LOVE if some roles were added to few classes.
What if frost mage was instead water spec with some dps/healing spells (less damage than a SP but more healing).
If subtetly was a tanking spec ? (a rogue melting in shadow to avoid damage and using trickery to lure his opponents)
If survival hunter was meant to help their teammates to survive ? (healing/shielding)
If the job of demolocks was to summon and control greater demons threatening every of his master's opponents (tanking)

Adding variety to a game can't be wrong imo. Of course theses change are not realistic, it's too late. But I really would have enjoyed these options.

[Kaleredar]

The problem with option five... do you know how much time that would take? To develop a healing or tanking role for every single class, create spells, glyphs, and talent trees, AND THEN balance them all to eachother, and then balance them all in PvP? I'd wager that's a bit more than a "few weeks' endeavor."

And then the loot tables, oh, the loot tables. Welcome in tanking cloth gear and mail gear. Do we have ranged DPS plate? Strength offhand frills? It sucks enough seeing Healadin gear drop as it is.

[Ealyssa]

And then the loot tables, oh, the loot tables. Welcome in tanking cloth gear and mail gear.

That' absolutly not a problem. It's not because blizzard poorly maintained tanking plate that it should be the same for all class. Druid tank use dps gear, monk tank will too. You can easily translate that for other class.

I first thaught that it would be massive work. But they have done that kind of work with blood DK actually, creating a tank spec and destroying a dps one in the same time. I don't think that the community would accept that mage/warlock/rogue/hunter sundenly becoming hybrids but it may be possible (i don't say that it will happen).

[Ragedaug]

Option 4 wasn't put in there as an after thought. It was there because PVP & PVE specs were clearly defined and understood though Vanilla and most of BC. It's mostly that way now, ie you spec Arms, Subtlety, Frost etc, if you want to be serious about PVP...and you don't spec those trees if you are serious about PVE, it's just that Blizzard won't come right out and say it.

[Uthur]

I want as many DIFFERENT specs as i can get so i can be as different from the next guy as i can,BUT balance is the #1

[Furiex]

Just revert the game back to Vanilla/BC and make it a hard game that isnt suited for simple mindded casuals. Then youll be as happy as you can! Not this unbalanced game you have today, But for that im along for the ride no matter what you wanna do! Just Please BALANCE THAT PVP SCENE MY GOD WTF

[Doran the Righteous]

Oh good, another GC post going over a bunch of possible design directions ending with him saying he doesn't know which is the one to go with. His posts are just generated by a script, right?

[Kaleredar]

That' absolutly not a problem. It's not because blizzard poorly maintained tanking plate that it should be the same for all class. Druid tank use dps gear, monk tank will too. You can easily translate that for other class.

I first thaught that it would be massive work. But they have done that kind of work with blood DK actually, creating a tank spec and destroying a dps one in the same time. I don't think that the community would accept that mage/warlock/rogue/hunter sundenly becoming hybrids but it may be possible (i don't say that it will happen).

Yes, but DKs already had a sound foundation to build tanking upon (all the basic abilities were already there, or were part of the frost tree.) Building a rogue tanking spec? Probably a litter harder than just switching some of the talent tree abilities around. And then imagine doing that for melee or tanking priests, warlock healers, etc, etc. And then tuning them all to perform equally well at those rolls as all the OTHER new class specializations and the ones that have been doing it for years.

As for the gear, do DKs, warriors, and paladins ultimately get the screw over then? That they have to maintain completely separate sets of gear, while the rogue can slip from tanking into DPS with the same exact set of gear then? Does the warlock healer heal through the conventional use of spirit, or do they need to focus on damaging enemies to heal others? Do they use the same weapons as a DPS spec? And then answer that question for every new class specialization.

I reiterate my previous statement:

I'd wager that's a bit more than a "few weeks' endeavor."

[Ealyssa]

And then imagine doing that for melee or tanking priests, warlock healers, etc, etc.

I never said that every class should have every role, that may be a far too overwhelming change. I just dreamed about pure class not being pure anymore, to break the "purz R so skrewd actuly" and to give some new possibilites.

As for the gear, do DKs, warriors, and paladins ultimately get the screw over then? That they have to maintain completely separate sets of gear, while the rogue can slip from tanking into DPS with the same exact set of gear then?

Have you ever played a feral tank ? Even if they have the same gear, the orientation is different. You can dps in bear spec with bear gear but it won't be optimal (ok, you will do better than a war/pal in tanking gear but still underperforming a real dps player).
And that can "easily" be avoided by simply suppressing armor specific (plate/leather/mail/cloth) tanking gear. Let only neck/back/ring/trinket/weapons be purely tanking gear (you can even reintroduce attack power for these specific items to not mess with str/agi).

It needs clearly some work. But imo it is not out of mind. Blizzard should get out the lazy path a bit more I think. Such changes could really refresh the game way more than simply "hardening specs, opening template" (still imo).

[Oldbugga]

For such a fundamental part of the game's future development I am sure Blizz have a preferred model. I fear that GC's moment of "openness" is nothing more than a test of the waters to see where the turbulence will appear. This game has never, nor never will be, designed by some sort of democratic popularity pole so I doubt our input will change their preferred approach.

Personally I think they are focusing too narrowly on class specs only but they can tighten the specs by providing utility in other ways like expanding the utility in the professions eg miners can leave potholes in the battlefield as a slow, or blacksmiths can scatter tacks as a slow, or jewelcrafters can blind with a crystal mirror as a stun or engineers can develop a TASER as a stun etc etc etc....endless possibilities which can be chosen by all players (despite their class) who chose the profession.

In essence I believe that, because the issue of class design is so fundamental to the game's design, this blog is only to give us the impression we are being consulted....I believe they already have chosen their preferred approach.

[Deleted]

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