Legendary dagger talks.

[T Man]

By now most main 25 raiders should have their daggers. (yay us)

And I wanted to ask you all how you feel about the proc and the time it gets to proc, as its rng share with us your bad and good rng. Give the soon to be legendary rogues some info for what to expect.

Fasts the daggers don’t tell you.
Sub
As sub trying to time the proc with expose weakness up is proving to be a troll.
Getting from 0-30 takes me about 30-40 seconds in a raid….getting it to proc is something else.
I’ve been in arena sitting on 40+ stacks before it wants to proc
You keep your stacks (and keep gaining them) when the wings proc.
I have had it proc on 30 and on 49 so enjoy timing it right, at least you have some window for how and when it will proc ^^
It seems to stack based on your attack speed. Was doing alz HC and with 25 stacks got a proc at 38 and it went up to 50 before it ended then shot back up to 30+ a few “seconds” later so haste does seem to speed up the stacks.

Assa
With 4set and vendetta glyph, if you vendetta on the pull it will proc before vendetta ends and envenom spam seems meh but it sure looks nice
With the energy dump it feels a lot smoother with assa then combat.
Not tried it with combat but the logs I’ve seen tells me it takes a good 2mins? To proc.

Not sure if anyone has tried it but the wings buff you gain from the daggers is magic. No clue if you can spell steal / dispel. Would suck if you could

Please by all means give any feedback you can so rogues on their way to getting them have an idea of what to expect. Took me a while to understand the proc and how it works. (You need the energy to do the finisher QQ) It feels good when you can spam finishers. And the dps boost seems insane when you’re sitting on 50 stacks waiting for a proc 850 agil every 30 seconds or so ^^

[Diciple]

Well its certainly interesting to have this added complexity to rotations, I find sub is quite fun but can be annoying when it procs inside a shadow dance.

for pvp its just frustrating you either wait forever for it to proc or when it does proc your sat in CC, you can try and fool enemy players into thinking you've procced by using the slow fall but doesn't always work.

as for modelling on shadowcraft I think the dps it sims is a little high.

[T Man]

It simed my rogue at 50ish as ass and 51+ with same gear and reforges.

I can get to that in the first 20 seconds of the fight but then it drops :/

still happy with the proc speed of assa / sub. scared to try combat and be waiting for ever for it to proc.

Srsly go Alz and fly, watch how fast you get the stacks T_T

[aresnic]

I hate to complain about a legendary, but I'm really under-whelmed by them. In fact, I'd say I'm down-right disappointed. I've been raiding on my rogue in moderately competitive guilds (cleared all content each xpac while it was relevant) since Vanilla and due to some really bad luck with bindings and warglaive drops, this is the first legendary set I've actually completed. Maybe it's because I've been waiting 7 years to get my hand on an orange, or maybe it's because Blizzard threw in the towel as far as Cataclysm is concerned, but they just don't feel all that legendary. The final cinematic is kind of neat, but other than that, there's no big fanfare like with the Tarecgosa staff, or a world boss to kill like with Thunderfury, or an awesome mount and toys to share with your guild like with Shadowmourne. All you get is...slowfall...on a class that already had it. And a proc that takes FOREVER to build-up and thanks to the fact that the finishers still use a GCD and still cost energy, you really only get about 3 off before it's gone. Don't even bother counting on it in pvp, my heroic Vial of Shadows was way better burst in that regards (though that just got nerfed too QQ).

To add insult to injury, most tests are showing that the heroic DW axe is better than the legendary MH for combat. How can something be "legendary" if there's a BETTER weapon available from the SAME raid tier? Given, not every rogue in the world will down heroic Madness, but considering I'm on a server where 8/8 normal 10-man has been puggable since week 1 and since there's no difference in gem/cluster drop-rate between normal and heroic mode, all I can really boast is that I got mine about 2 weeks before Joe Shmoe's alt >.<

[Stede]

Weird question, but - would it make sense to Eviscerate as Assasination during the Legendary proc as long as the Envenom Buff is up? Env-Evi-Evi-Evi-Env ?

[Rolard]

Weird question, but - would it make sense to Eviscerate as Assasination during the Legendary proc as long as the Envenom Buff is up? Env-Evi-Evi-Evi-Env ?

Envenom benefits from mastery. It's substantially better even with the clipping (which isn't a big deal during proc)

[Nyxis86]

Well its certainly interesting to have this added complexity to rotations, I find sub is quite fun but can be annoying when it procs inside a shadow dance.

for pvp its just frustrating you either wait forever for it to proc or when it does proc your sat in CC, you can try and fool enemy players into thinking you've procced by using the slow fall but doesn't always work.

as for modelling on shadowcraft I think the dps it sims is a little high.

It is high. For all 3 dagger sets, shadowcraft sims them assuming 100% uptime on maximum stacks of agility buff.

---------- Post added 2012-02-09 at 10:08 PM ----------

Weird question, but - would it make sense to Eviscerate as Assasination during the Legendary proc as long as the Envenom Buff is up? Env-Evi-Evi-Evi-Env ?

For assassination, the actual envenom damage from using envenom and not just the resulting envenom buff, hits quite a bit harder than eviscerate. I've seen 120k+ envenoms this tier when dicking around with assassination, on non gimicked fights.

[Sesshou]

Weird question, but - would it make sense to Eviscerate as Assasination during the Legendary proc as long as the Envenom Buff is up? Env-Evi-Evi-Evi-Env ?

Why do people throw out ideas like this without even having any idea how it works. Go to a dummy as assassination. Hit a 5cp 5dp envenom. Hit a 5cp evis with ea up. The difference should be immediately apparent though yes an actual raid setting will slightly adjust the numbers.

[zuttos]

Getting proc on the ice crystals on hagara= bleh
Getting proc on Yorshaj when switching target= bleh
Getting proc on Ultraxion just when you get in the realm= bleh

Why wont it proc when i want it to proc?! damnit

[Stuffs]

My question is, is it worth holding off cooldowns so it lines up the proc? Lets say you're at 20 stacks as combat and AR comes off cooldown, is it worth holding it?

[Sesshou]

My question is, is it worth holding off cooldowns so it lines up the proc? Lets say you're at 20 stacks as combat and AR comes off cooldown, is it worth holding it?

So you are going to hold it for the say 20 seconds (though could easily be double that) for your proc during which you use 6 evis and therefore waste half or more of AR's cooldown just letting it sit there?

[Stumpstarr]

Getting proc on the ice crystals on hagara= bleh
Getting proc on Yorshaj when switching target= bleh
Getting proc on Ultraxion just when you get in the realm= bleh

Why wont it proc when i want it to proc?! damnit

OMG you too, thought it was my bad luck, also, but not as bad,
Getting proc just before Black Blood on Morchok
Getting proc as tendon dies on Spine
WTB some consistancy

[Enhshamanlol]

OMG you too, thought it was my bad luck, also, but not as bad,
Getting proc just before Black Blood on Morchok
Getting proc as tendon dies on Spine
WTB some consistancy

Omfg. not looking forword to this.

[Goragu]

I've found them to be annoying and pretty pathetic for a legendary compared to the staff that is free dps with no extra hassle to caster rotations. Sure the daggers can proc at a golden moment and increase your dps by nearly 1k (deep insight, find weakness, Vendetta), but most of the time they proc at boring or inconvenient times as mentioned above. A simple fix that wouldn't be too overpowered imo would be the on use to be the proc itself when you are above 30 stacks, so you can choose when it happens, but ah well.

Some notes on its proc and how to try to align stuff, as sub it procs a lot more and a lot quicker once at 30 stacks than the other two specs, if you get find weakness up when you hit 30 you will most likely have it proc while it is still up, or you can risk waiting til 35, but no later.
As assassination it is simple, just spam envenom when it is up, though a small hindrance is being energy starved when it procs, meaning you miss out on two or even three envenoms while waiting for enough energy to do one. This happens sometimes as combat too but only if you are very unlucky. It is hard to not have vendetta up when it is procced, you can easily time one at 15-20 stacks and it will still be up when it procs even at 50 stacks.
Combat is the most rng and pain enduring of the three specs to deal with the proc, as you will always want it to proc on deep insight and when both KS and AR are on cooldown, but this is about as common as stars aligning. If you are fully DS geared, you will often find you reach 30 stacks when KS is close to coming off cooldown, and half the time it procs when KS has just come off cooldown which is frustrating. I rarely have it proc with no insight up, but it seems to proc most on moderate insight, if I am lucky deep insight on the first proc. All you can really do is try to squeeze in that next KS before it procs, mine tends to proc around 38-43 stacks as combat.

Dem oranges

[Moxi]

I main sub, but combat is required for some fights in DS. The big problem with the proc and combat is: it takes a long time to happen, because it assumes you will get the benefit of 50-60 seconds off your AR cooldown. However, if you get the proc at a bad time (such as fading light or something) you do not get the benefit. I guess the good news is AR is off global now, so you can hit it during the proc.

[Stuffs]

So you are going to hold it for the say 20 seconds (though could easily be double that) for your proc during which you use 6 evis and therefore waste half or more of AR's cooldown just letting it sit there?

I don't actually have the legendary so I'm hardly familiar with the rate. Hell I'm not even on P2 quite yet. Hence, my question.

[Sesshou]

I don't actually have the legendary so I'm hardly familiar with the rate. Hell I'm not even on P2 quite yet. Hence, my question.

Regardless of the proc rate, if you leave it on cd during a proc you just wasted 1/3 of the cd in addition to any time you had it prior to the proc.

[Stuffs]

Regardless of the proc rate

That's the thing, it is based off of the proc rate. If it stacks quicker, it lines up with AR more cleanly, less of ARs CD is wasted. That's the geist of what I was trying to ask, you should really stop with the aggression akin to earlier.
Am I ignorant of a mechanic(in this case, the proc rate of the daggers)? Yes. That's why I asked

[arceuid]

It simed my rogue at 50ish as ass and 51+ with same gear and reforges.

I can get to that in the first 20 seconds of the fight but then it drops :/

still happy with the proc speed of assa / sub. scared to try combat and be waiting for ever for it to proc.

Srsly go Alz and fly, watch how fast you get the stacks T_T

did aliz, combat. it procced at 1%. and Stuffs you'll get out another AR faster if you just use it. there's no lining it up. restless blades and all. the average proc is around 39-40 stacks from testing, it could go higher. saving AR would be silly. it's not possible to predict when you'll get the proc.

[Mugajak]

Wait, why would you hold AR for it anyway? The main bonus of AR is the energy gen, which shouldn't be a problem during Fury, and with Fury up, regardless of whether you used AR 20 seconds ago or 1s ago, you get the restless blades effect. If you timed it even better, you could finish your AR cd, proc AR, and reduce the CD further partway through your Fury for streamlined CD reduction.

I'm just not seeing why lining fury & AR up is a bonus.

EDIT: I could've misread the above comment and you're advocating waiting for Fury to end for AR's use... but that seems an even bigger waste, as you'd be skipping the 50-60s restless blade proc usage.