Making PvP trinket a baseline ability for all races

**Danur** · 2012-02-09, 04:10 PM

So before I go and post a wall of text on the official forums, I'm gonna run this by the scathing MMOC community.

(tl;dr at the bottom)

So I recently rolled a new character to play with friends. My 2nd alliance character ever, and I decided to roll Worgen for the lore experience while leveling. Also having a racial sprint sounds fantastic for a new hunter. So I'm leveling up, and I decide to do some lowbie BGs. I couldn't help but notice how annoying it was getting blown up in a stun by people with heirloom gear on, and since I am playing on a new server in a new battlegroup, I couldn't send myself any. So my next thought was, "well, I'll just buy one of the lowbie honor trinkets," that is until I remembered that for some unexplained reason, Blizzard took those out of the game. I was feeling pretty bitter towards all the humans on my team, who were trinketing and slamming the rogues who jumped on them, or charging right into that warlock despite the chance to be feared. So now I'm grinding along begrudgingly till Outland where I can finally attain a simple trinket so I don't get chain CC'd indefinitely.

Now I'm in a new guild over here, and I see people looking for arena partners, discussing strategies, comps and builds. It then hits me. If I REALLY intend to take this new character seriously, I'm going to have to race change him to human. Why? The ability to double stack dps trinkets is just too good to pass up for any other racial. It's just not even a question as to what the best optimization is, and the arena ladders of nearly every battlegroup show just that.

TL;DR
In todays CC-happy PvP environment, where everyone has a stun/disorient/silence/fear/and root, it's time the other races got some of the loving, and the human's get a new nifty racial on top of a baseline trinket ability for everyone. Just make it not work in PvE, or at least against certain mechanics, so there is no problem there.

(Edited the OP, removing my inaccurate statement about how long humans had their racial, to keep the conversation on track.

**Illana** · 2012-02-09, 04:14 PM

+1 for this

would balance low level pvp much more as well as making end level pvp more balanced.

**Rurumiki** · 2012-02-09, 04:16 PM

I really like this idea. It also has PvE uses too. WotF would probably have to be nerfed more or removed completely 'cause deaders would be even more awesome. It would be nice to get to actually use two trinkets!

Let's do it! =)

**biggischkris** · 2012-02-09, 04:34 PM

Dear mr Poster, if you think that the human racial is by far the most powerful one in pvp, you are sadly mistaken.
No worries, i'll explain it to you, im just going to mention the few other racials im very familiar with.

Night Elf = shadowmeld + 2% miss chance
shadowmeld = Reset/Restealth for druids/rogues, its a huge dmg and cc avoider for EVERYONE,
a focus breaker, a drink opportunity and much much more, its so insanely powerful
2 % miss explains itself, people missing kidneys blinds throwdown etc etc etc is game breaking

Undead = will of the forsaken + cannibalize
will of the forsaken breaks all sleep fear and charm, undead is basically giving you 2 trinkets
this racial is often the decisive point in matches since you can rotate trinket and WOTF
cannibalize is just awesome we all know it

Goblin = Rocket jump
thats a gap closer for any melee and a cap creator for any range
yes it is a big deal

Orc = Fury, Pet dmg, Burst cd, stun reduction
Well its obvious how good all these benefits are in comparison to a trinket witch
you can also just equip

Tauren = Stun and Stamina
more hp and AOE stun epic

My chars : Orc warrior, Orc Hunter, Tauren Druid, Goblin Mage, Nightelf Rogue, Nightelf Priest, HUMAN DK CHEER, Undead Lock
My personal opinion, Nighelf racials are the strongest and i havent even thought about race changing my rogue to human
to get carried by a trinket that we all knew wouldnt last long and also didnt last long

**pinkz** · 2012-02-09, 05:29 PM

i have one or more players all races, i agree and disagree

NE - racials agree are a good advantage...benefits all classes of this race

UD - WOTF 30 sec CD between use of PVP trinkets now imo is useless. i have a UD rogue (conqueror title) and have PVP'd since 2007, i rarely use cannibalize almost to the point of never. seriously thinking of going HU or NE

goblin - jump is pretty much equal to worgen sprint

Orc - AP/SP racial makes them sorta equal to HU, since it is basicly like having a trinket. stun reduction is worthless and you will notice. having a .9 sec reduction on a 6 sec stun = you are still dead

tauren - after the WotLK racial nerf to only being 5% of base health, no armor, enchants, or buffs count as they did before. many players still do not understand this racial in what is was the severe nerf it recieved.

i play 2 paladins, HU and BE, btw tried tauren and draenai, i noticed the difference between to 2 hands downs.

HU - having a PVP racial allows free trinket slot, allows total player/class/spec customization no other race has. you do not ever have the stuck feeling. this in a sense allows you to select a racial bonus thru trinkets such as more:

haste
expertise
strength
agility
intellect
stamina
mastery

to thread starter: PVP trinket is sold in ORG/SW for 55 honor

**Corysi** · 2012-02-09, 05:33 PM

You can have it, you just have to play a Human character. The game isn't balanced for low level play, including trinket choices.

**SkillOverKill** · 2012-02-09, 06:03 PM

Your understanding of shadowmeld is incorrect, while you can use it to for some of those things - its best real uses are for a) stealth classes getting additional openers, and b) non-stealth classes feigning enemy burst (ie. shatter combos, lava bursts). Still, while I'd another dps trinket would be good, a lot of players would use double resilience trinkets anyways for the resilience - but I do prefer that that is an option and not mandatory (as the pvp trinket currently is).

**Jaojin** · 2012-02-09, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Danur

So before I go and post a wall of text on the official forums, I'm gonna run this by the scathing MMOC community.

(tl;dr at the bottom)

So I recently rolled a new character to play with friends. My 2nd alliance character ever, and I decided to roll Worgen for the lore experience while leveling. Also having a racial sprint sounds fantastic for a new hunter. So I'm leveling up, and I decide to do some lowbie BGs. I couldn't help but notice how annoying it was getting blown up in a stun by people with heirloom gear on, and since I am playing on a new server in a new battlegroup, I couldn't send myself any. So my next thought was, "well, I'll just buy one of the lowbie honor trinkets," that is until I remembered that for some unexplained reason, Blizzard took those out of the game. I was feeling pretty bitter towards all the humans on my team, who were trinketing and slamming the rogues who jumped on them, or charging right into that warlock despite the chance to be feared. So now I'm grinding along begrudgingly till Outland where I can finally attain a simple trinket so I don't get chain CC'd indefinitely.

Now I'm in a new guild over here, and I see people looking for arena partners, discussing strategies, comps and builds. It then hits me. If I REALLY intend to take this new character seriously, I'm going to have to race change him to human. Why? The ability to double stack resil trinkets, or on-use Agi + Vial of Shadows is just too good to pass up for any other racial. It's just not even a question as to what the best optimization is, and the arena ladders of nearly every battlegroup show just that.

TL;DR
The human racial is awesome, and has had its place for many years. In vanilla, when CC was much scarcer, it was not nearly as big of a game changer. But in todays CC-happy PvP environment, where everyone has a stun/disorient/silence/fear/and root, it's time the other races got some of the loving, and the human's get a new nifty racial on top of a baseline trinket ability for everyone. Just make it not work in PvE, or at least against certain mechanics, so there is no problem there.

First point: What? There is a Resil trinket with the CC breaker use on it already.

Second point: You started in Wrath of the Lich King or later. How do I know this? Because Humans didn't get Every Man for Himself til Wrath. And if you think there was less CC in classic, you are mistaken. CC was much more powerful then... Stun lock was so powerful that, once perfected, there wasn't anything your opponent could do about it without the trinket (and even then, they would be gravely wounded.) Yes, killing rogues was a B****

Addendum: Everyone doesn't need a "CC Breaking" racial; or, if they did have one the need for having an actual CC Breaking trinket would be far less (people would still want to use 2 yes, but personally, I think if everyone had a racial that could do it, then no one should have a trinket that also does it.) As others have pointed out, several races already have various cc breaking abilities (including reduced snare duration on trolls, even though it's worth very little.) You suggest making CC in PvP harder than it already is, which would pretty much make it obsolete.

**Ap0calypse** · 2012-02-09, 06:19 PM

SWTOR - everyone has a pvp "trinket" as a baseline ability. Works there, cant see why wouldnt work in wow.

**announced** · 2012-02-09, 06:23 PM

gonna agree with all the new cc bs people use everyone has a stun/ polymorph/mass fear/ or whatever else to kill people with .. and its simply ludicrous to need to race change to a human in order to be useful in pvp.. we all can say night elves have the best racials but honestly... doesnt shadowmeld break if u move? just like a hunters camo? meaning the enemy still knows where u are.. its just that your appearing invisible.. lol what a joke.

**Jaojin** · 2012-02-09, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by announced

gonna agree with all the new cc bs people use everyone has a stun/ polymorph/mass fear/ or whatever else to kill people with .. and its simply ludicrous to need to race change to a human in order to be useful in pvp.. we all can say night elves have the best racials but honestly... doesnt shadowmeld break if u move? just like a hunters camo? meaning the enemy still knows where u are.. its just that your appearing invisible.. lol what a joke.

Shadowmeld breaks if you move, but if you meld they can't target you for an attack or spell regardless (casting that polymorph, N.Elf melds, spell canceled due to no target.) You could AoE them, but they still evaded your cc, which is what they set off to accomplish in the first place (most won't even stay melded once the spell was interrupted.)

And Hunter Camo doesn't break if you move; you can see the Hunter with Camo if they move, but you cannot target them with ranged attacks/spells.

**Ramaloce** · 2012-02-09, 06:47 PM

Yeah, I registered to mmo-champ to reply to this thread.

I REALLY like this idea, also thought of some things to help with this idea. For example the main active racial for a race (Shadowmeld,Will of the forsaken,etc) Could just be a differently animated trinket effect and given a secondary active unique racial that can be useful in a given situation. Forsaken already have a ability like this with cannibalize, nightelfs could have something like "view of the night" which could be increased stealth detection for x seconds. Of course the secondary racial would have to make sense for at the very least the lore of the race, doesn't actually have to be anything really directly out of the warcraft RTS.

It was also mentioned already that SWTOR has this for their PvP, though I could right a small book on why there pvp was the worst I have ever experienced, the trinket baseline for everyone was 1 of the very few things (there was 2) that I actually liked about their pvp.

**lunchbox2042** · 2012-02-09, 06:52 PM

Odds are they would remove the human racial before giving it to every other race.

**AnarchyEU** · 2012-02-09, 06:54 PM

Didn't blizz already talk about this?

Btw, humans didn't have this racial in vanilla, if I recall correctly it was added sometime during TBC, I remember it being added.

**Thompson** · 2012-02-09, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by Danur

The human racial is awesome, and has had its place for many years. In vanilla, when CC was much scarcer, it was not nearly as big of a game changer. But in todays CC-happy PvP environment, where everyone has a stun/disorient/silence/fear/and root, it's time the other races got some of the loving, and the human's get a new nifty racial on top of a baseline trinket ability for everyone. Just make it not work in PvE, or at least against certain mechanics, so there is no problem there.

it wasn't around in Vanilla

**Tazienne** · 2012-02-09, 07:13 PM

I suppose since no one else has pointed it out, I will. You can buy a PVP trinket at level 10. Its 55 honor and is bought from the legacy armor vendor in either SW or Org. I know this as I have a character right now in their teens who has leveled from only PVP. You clearly are not as serious about PVP as you want to think you are if you don't know this. A simple google search would have revealed the location of the trinket vendors now.
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=12785#sells:0+2+1

Beyond the obvious fallacy in your argument, I still do not agree on trying to somehow give an ability to every race for PVP usage. I would much rather see the human racial changed back or just nerfed a bit. Since Gnomes get a movement escape skill and no one complains and Undead still get their fear/charm escape, I could see humans having maybe a 1 min CD stun only escape. Then they can still be rooted, feared, and such, and would need to equip the same gear as others to be able to combat all forms of CC. Seems much more fair as people participating in PVP should be in PVP gear, not abusing high end PVE stuff that isn't intended for use in the PVP environment. (I don't agree with legendary weapons in PVP either, but would much enjoy more variety to PVP gear. ie. Proc weapons and the like.)

**Chef Atabey** · 2012-02-09, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by Danur

TL;DR
The human racial is awesome, and has had its place for many years. In vanilla, when CC was much scarcer, it was not nearly as big of a game changer. But in todays CC-happy PvP environment, where everyone has a stun/disorient/silence/fear/and root, it's time the other races got some of the loving, and the human's get a new nifty racial on top of a baseline trinket ability for everyone. Just make it not work in PvE, or at least against certain mechanics, so there is no problem there.

With this you suggest humans had Every man for Himself from vanilla on, but that is not the case. In vanilla and TBC days, human racial was called Perception. It gave you increased stealth detection for a short time on a 2 min CD. Every Man for Himself only got introduced at the racial rework pre-WotLK. So saying something was fine eventough it didn't exists at the time is kind of weird. So fix that first before posting it on the offical forums. Always make sure your facts are straight before considering serious construcive posting and never try to make your argument stronger with lies. It just backfires.

**Gandrake** · 2012-02-09, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by Jaojin

Everyone doesn't need a "CC Breaking" racial

Then why do Humans deserve to be the only race you can run double burst trinkets with?

No other race's racial is that strong.

**Tazienne** · 2012-02-09, 07:39 PM

As others have said, clearly you did not play in Vanilla when there were not DRs or even time limits on CC. My mage would 3v1 fights because I could chain poly someone for as long as I wanted while I proceeded to kite their friends around endlessly. The OP racial back then was WotF because it removed fears and gave 20 seconds on immunity allowing Undead Rogues to totally dominate any Warlock as they were one of the PVP powerhouse classes because of DoTs and Drain life.

**tinkabela** · 2012-02-09, 09:05 PM

afaik that wasn't any pvp trinket in vanilla, let alone human racial that gave it

Thread: Making PvP trinket a baseline ability for all races

Thread Tools

Making PvP trinket a baseline ability for all races

Posting Permissions